[jonspd]

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-phen....html?doc=6273









source http://translate.google.com/translat...sl=zh-CN&tl=en



http://diy.pconline.com.cn/cpu/revie...1532965_1.html



am3 board plans http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9599



45nm documents http://www.amd.com/us-en/0,,3715_15503,00.html

[hank123]

balls! sweet!

[Niku-Sama]

thats gonna be alot of $$$

i'm probally gonna wait and see till all the rest of the options are available, and to see if i'll need a new motherboard

[Rinne]

that are some quiet brave OC predictions there, especially for the first release stepping.. Hopefully they are true

[Kuroimaho]

Cons
The numbering scheme kinda reminds me to something...
Duals come last again, which still feels like they are trying to tell the market what to buy and not caring about their customer's needs.

Pros
Seems like a very good plan to salvage faulty dice which might be crucial for the by that time fabless company.
Also good for us to have such a wide variety of options to choose from, we can raise clockspeed but not the cache but with so many options for cache we can find what suits us the most.

[e6600]

im down, if the price is right

[Linux4ever]

Me too...

[the_cultie]

Same here

[Remeniz]

Sweet

[QuietIce]

Originally Posted by Kuroimaho

Cons
The numbering scheme kinda reminds me to something...
Duals come last again, which still feels like they are trying to tell the market what to buy and not caring about their customer's needs.

Pros
Seems like a very good plan to salvage faulty dice which might be crucial for the by that time fabless company.
Also good for us to have such a wide variety of options to choose from, we can raise clockspeed but not the cache but with so many options for cache we can find what suits us the most.

Since the first release of the line-up is the X4 server chips it's probably more a matter of efficiency to release desktop X4's than trying to dictate to the market ...

[netmask]

massive cravings

[terran2k]

I like the direction AMD is taking things. If the things they're claiming is true, my next server is going to be AMD.

[DragoXT]

Where the hell are the damn X2 7000 series chips they mention in them slides? They have been promising kuma's release for more than a freaking year and it still hasnt seen the light of day. IMO releasing duals late is stupid stupid stupid cause by the time they get out their they have hoped people would get their x3 and x4 chips, and the only market for the duals is the bottom of the barrel crap where they cant possibly make money with those chips, even if they are denebs with 2 cores cut and the l3 cache cut out. They are a day late and a dollar short, cause by the time the duals come to market people that have been waiting for something from AMD will likely say frack it and get a quad or triple core cause they are tired of waiting.

[White_Pawn]

did they just claim they can hit 4ghz on air?

[Archer0915]

What got me to this place was trying to find the elusive or non existent 6500+ I saw some marks must have been an engineering sample. I bought my present mobo just BC I was going to buy one of these procs so when I see them at the egg then I will have some faith restored in AMD. They constantly play this game and the faithful build up hope and supplies in prep for the upgrade and then more delays. I do not have a problem with AMD products but the Bull S*** they can keep. SHOW ME THE PRODUCT. Also it doesn't help that overenthusiastic fanboys post marks all over the place. Makes my mouth water and my wallet heavy HMMMM??? gets much heavier I might have to buy something.

[Ghostcustoms]

Looks good I wonder what the power draw will be.

[Dolk]

Originally Posted by DragoXT

Where the hell are the damn X2 7000 series chips they mention in them slides? They have been promising kuma's release for more than a freaking year and it still hasnt seen the light of day. IMO releasing duals late is stupid stupid stupid cause by the time they get out their they have hoped people would get their x3 and x4 chips, and the only market for the duals is the bottom of the barrel crap where they cant possibly make money with those chips, even if they are denebs with 2 cores cut and the l3 cache cut out. They are a day late and a dollar short, cause by the time the duals come to market people that have been waiting for something from AMD will likely say frack it and get a quad or triple core cause they are tired of waiting.

DragoXT, as you can see from the first post, last picture, AMD states that the AMD Athlon X2 6000/7000 will be out this quarter. The 7000 will be here for the AM2+ system. What I am guessing is that they will be releasing as the Phenom II 940 comes out. Think Graphics style marketing when it comes to this release. The big guns come out with show, while the less powerful are put out there, but are not seen by a lot of people.

Now here is the question: Grab the AM2+ system and build a Spider platform with the 940, or wait for AM3 and grab an AM3 compatible 940. The difference between the two should be something to wait for.

[Archer0915]

Question??? I thought the procs were gonig the same (one proc 2 sockets ie. am2/am2+) only diff would be the socket AM2+/AM3 but the proc would work in both.

edit: so what do you mean am3 compatible 1 proc 2 sockets???

And I do know there will be slight differences in architecture about like am2 and am2+.

[blazed]

Originally Posted by Kuroimaho

Cons
The numbering scheme kinda reminds me to something...
Duals come last again, which still feels like they are trying to tell the market what to buy and not caring about their customer's needs.

Intel does the exact same thing, and GPUs are released the same way. They make more money on the expensive chips and don't want to canibalize they're high end market with everyone buying the much cheaper dual cores.

Sucks if your looking for low end but I think AMD will have these chips aggresively priced to begin with.

[Yahira]

Originally Posted by DragoXT

Where the hell are the damn X2 7000 series chips they mention in them slides? They have been promising kuma's release for more than a freaking year and it still hasnt seen the light of day. IMO releasing duals late is stupid stupid stupid cause by the time they get out their they have hoped people would get their x3 and x4 chips, and the only market for the duals is the bottom of the barrel crap where they cant possibly make money with those chips, even if they are denebs with 2 cores cut and the l3 cache cut out. They are a day late and a dollar short, cause by the time the duals come to market people that have been waiting for something from AMD will likely say frack it and get a quad or triple core cause they are tired of waiting.

I think you might be onto something.

If your AMD and you really are just cutting the cores/cash down on defective chips to produce x2 and x3 chips wouldn't you rather people still buy the more expensive model? The chip costs them the same to make, it probably costs a little more in fact because on the neutered models they have to do extra work to disable the defective parts. Sure it saves them money by selling these chips anyway (instead of trashing the whole chip) but given the choice wouldn't you think they would rather sell only the more expensive chips so they make more money?

Duals are generally going down a bit in popularity. When people upgrade or buy a new computer just about anyone trying to sell them the parts/PCs is going to be pushing a quad core (more money). Even the folks who know the difference and what it all really means are going more and more to quads simply because they are reaching close to the same speeds as the duals (throwing out the faster in single threaded apps argument) and obviously will perform better in multi threaded apps (which are becoming more popular, especially in areas like gaming).

Combine that with the fact that if these are defective quads then AMD has to wait to stock up enough defective and converted chips from production of the quads to be able to sell them in numbers large enough to meet orders. Those orders would probably be pretty good from OEM PC makers because of the cheap cost that they can get the chips (probably make a deal with AMD to get the chips at little more than manufacturing costs, AMD might give up on profit with them just to cut the losses of not selling them). Also take into account the fact that these are most likely the chips that not only didn't make it as quads but also couldn't make it as X3s, the "yield" on them is probably pretty low. One of the goals in manufacturing CPUs is to have as high a yield as possible, if they are starting them all out as quads and they have a good manufacturing process going, they just might not be getting as many defective chips. This is good for AMD, bad if your hoping for a new cheap dualy or x3. OEMs will see their orders first and what is left will get sold to everyone else (OEMs have contracts which is a lot more money than we can guarantee AMD for cheap chips).

I think given the point of view for AMD these things aren't exactly a priority to get on the consumer market. Maybe get them to OEMs a little faster but for those of us who buy and build they are most likely focusing a little bit more on the quad core lines and the x3s to fall back on.

At least, that is how I am looking at it at this point. I know that is how I would push the products. Try to sell the ones you make the most on and work down the line from there. The bottom of the line that you get the least of (unless they have a horrible manufacturing process) will take the longest to get out and not be that big of a concern.

Anyway, I can't wait until next week to see the new naming scheme for the deneb chips. I do know that I would enjoy seeing some benches and numbers being released. I also really hope that these perform as well as AMD is suggesting. Two reasons for that, first off I just want the chips to perform well because I want to buy one. Secondly I don't think AMD needs the chips that are released to perform worse than what they say they will (won't look too good). They can release low numbers and when official numbers come out the reviews will call them better than expected, "a success", they fall short of those numbers and it will suddenly be reviewed as a "disappointment". AMD needs all of the good press that they can get right now, I am tired of watching the value of my shares go down.

[DragoXT]

not 2 sockets, AM2 and AM2+ are called that way cause they use DDR2, AM3 uses DDR3. The chips however, that are AM3 have a DDR3 IMC and a DDR2 IMC. The first set of Denebs out will be AM2+ only as they only have DDR2+ IMC's in them.

What ****es me off is they said the 6500 was coming out in mid october and it never appeared, and what is really ****ing me off is that it is halfway through Q4 and we havent seen a damn review site with any samples of this 7000 series dual cores. Usually these places get them and review them like a month before they ship and can be bought, so if sites dont get them this week, we will not see any of their stuff till 09.

[Archer0915]

I agree I bit**** about that in an earlier post that is what got me on this forum in the first place.

I see what you are saying the first release CPU's will only have DDR2 support then move to DDR3 that is afu!!!! All i SEE IS AMD PI***** MORE PPL OFF If this is how they release they might be screwing themselves I think they need to reexamine what they are doing and not release their flagship proc with out DDR3 support.

EDIT: Screws with upgrade path. From what I had initially read or misunderstood was that all the next gen would be backward compatible with am2/am2+ and all would work on am3 I mean really what is the point of your fastest proc not taking advantage of new mem????
Maybe latency? but usually that is overcome to a point by extra clocks.

[jonspd]

it's all for compatibility

how would AMD be able to release a phenom II with ddr3 support only when there isn't any ddr3 motherboard support yet. I mean it will come in time but if they release a chip that only was able to do ddr3 and no ddr3 board out atm then what do you use to test this chip with untill the mobo company's get off there arse?

[Archer0915]

per DragoXT: not 2 sockets, AM2 and AM2+ are called that way cause they use DDR2, AM3 uses DDR3. The chips however, that are AM3 have a DDR3 IMC and a DDR2 IMC. The first set of Denebs out will be AM2+ only as they only have DDR2+ IMC's in them.

and that looks that way to me on the chart as well so therefore that is how.

PER TGDaily: AMD schedules to launch its 45nm process socket AM3 family processors in the second half of 2008. The processors will support HyperTransport 3.0 and will have a built-in DDR2/DDR3 memory controller. The processors will be backward compatible with the previous AM2 and AM2+ socket motherboards, according to sources at motherboard makers.

So again I say AFU

Edit : I feel better now I wasnt wrong Drago AMD changed plans I AM VINDICATED I think?

[Dolk]

Originally Posted by jonspd

it's all for compatibility

how would AMD be able to release a phenom II with ddr3 support only when there isn't any ddr3 motherboard support yet. I mean it will come in time but if they release a chip that only was able to do ddr3 and no ddr3 board out atm then what do you use to test this chip with untill the mobo company's get off there arse?

Not only that, but I bet AMD sees it just like us. The difference between DDR3 and DDR2 is very little right now. Yeah you can support Tri-Channel, but thanks to 100s of bench testing, the Nehalem has shown us that the difference is not extreme and the support for DDR2 should still be there. (On a side note, I would like to see the difference between DDR2 and DDR3, using dual and tri channel in a virtual server environment.)

On another note, I just want to get some clarification. Will the 940 be completely unlocked? If so, count me in on buying this guy in January (after University bills are paid).

[Archer0915]

Oh I will buy one!! I am saying release it with dual controller so that it can take advantage of newer boards with ddr3 (if there is an advantage) and also possible new tech in these mobos based on am3 when they are released.

[jonspd]

there is no newer board if there was then I'm sure AMD would release it with both IMC controllers.

yes the 940 will be unlocked afaik

[Archer0915]

I said when they are released!!!!!!

[terran2k]

it is AMD saying their BE cpu's can hit 4Ghz on air and looks like 4.5+ on liquid? so 5Ghz could be reachable on a Phenom II? that'd be nice.

[Badbonji]

I think they are saying that will be the limit of the overclock on air (so most people on air will get to, say 3.6Ghz whilst some good batches will get to 4.0Ghz). Same with liquid I guess.