[Dolk]

This thread has been updated to show updated results. The original data provided this this thread, will remain to allow refrence. There is an updated section below the original is the updated information. All prices are pulled from Newegg.com. All Overclocking results have been pulled from www.ripping.org.

New Section: Updated on September 9th 2009. EXCEPTION: i7 and Phenom II information was not updated, only i5 information was added.

So I listened to this podcast today. The speakers said that they personally went down to AMD and saw the OC happen. They noted that it was around 6ghz, and the voltage was around 1.9. This even was the same one that people have been talking about all over the web. If you listen to the Podcast you can hear more about what went on.

Out of curiosity, I wanted to see how the i7 stacked up against the "known" Phenom II OC results. So I hunted the web and came up with a lot of data. Most of this data is for i7 but I found enough to get a general comparison.

All sources are listed at the bottom.
This information is comparing how well i7 and PII can Overclock (OC). This is not to see who has the better clock ratio but rather which would end up to be the better CPU to OC.

Here is the graph for the i7. The graph has all three i7 CPUs.




Here is the graph for the Phenom II 940. This data that I have collected throughout the internet.


From the above charts you can easily tell that the i7 965 has the slight upper hand in all of this. With the ability to go up to 5.5ghz at around 1.67 volts is pretty impressive. However, how much more voltage will be required to get to 6ghz and beyond? AMD was able to show off what they could do with the PII 940 and they are using the 790GX / SB750.

Even though there is not enough data on the PII, I still believe that we can see a relationship between the i7 and the PII right now. For the second part of this post, I want to show you the price difference with i7 and PII. The only variable that will most likely change is the price of the PII CPU. But one can argue that the price for the i7 will also drop once the PII comes out. For now I will use what I have.



In general the information above shows first the prices for the Motherboards (min, max, and average), along with the price of the CPU.(All source information can be found at the bottom of this page). To the right shows a chart and its data. I wanted to see what the price per MHz would be for each CPU. The speed of each CPU is the average OC of each CPU. Again this may not seem like enough information for comparison, but this does give us a early look at what we may expect.

The results are pretty amazing. The obvious result is the i7 965. What really got me was where the PII 940 stood compared to the i7. With this early data we can see that it would be better to go AMD. But then there is the factor of power consumption and the difference between MHz to voltage. In order to get that information there would need to be more data. The Intel side is still getting used to OCing with the i7. If you look at the graphs again up top, you can see that the speed to voltage ratio is everywhere, although it does show a small pattern, but still not enough.

So with all that what do you guys think? In my opinion, I believe that AMD actually has a chance here for the best to OC.


Source
PII 940 OC and Voltages Sources
http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-Snea...locks-To-5GHz/
http://www.techspot.com/news/32576-A...-to-63GHz.html
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=209878
Prices for PII
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...-prices-listed
Overclocking results of i7
http://www.ripping.org/database.php?coreidwr=Bloomfield

More information regarding the different Overclocking speeds of the PII 940 can be found in these threads:
AMD Phenom II
5GHZ + Phenom II Overclock on Dry Ice

All AMD Motherboards that were compared have been checked with the AM3 Compatible Motherboard list.

All Prices for i7 Motherboards, i7 CPUs, and AM2+ Motherboards came from www.newegg.com

In no way is this data 100% accurate. This data is a rough estimate and is used to see what the possible outcome may be.





================================================== ==========================================
================================================== ==========================================

Updated Section

Phenom II OC Chart



i7 OC Chart



i5 OC Chart



MHZ:Price Chart





Now that the i5 has come out, there has been a lot of talk that AMD will be booted out of the low budget to mid-high end budget computers. With looking at the costs, I will have to say that there will be a good battle between the two companies. For about 9 months AMD has held the ground with the mid market, now with these new i5 and i3 CPUs, the battlefield will heat up. But this isn't what my article is about, its about how well the each overclocks. With little overclocking information on the new i5 and i7 chips, they are probably far from done with the max. But still to this day, the Phenom II shows the best cost per an OC, not to mention that i-series Intel chips still lack the ability to make it into the 6ghz range once more.

[KonaKona]

In before finishing the post.

But on whats there, 1.9v? Lets see...

My P4 runs at 1.4....

Ah, I have a P1 that runs on 3.3. 1.9 is nothing.


Jokes aside, I'm just wondering about the volts/temps on air. From the looks of it, it manages high volts pretty well, because the last thing I remember running at 1.9v was a P4 at 7ghz something o_O

Right now I'm on the intel (or dark, as you guys call it) side for the new rig I'm making after christmas, even though I'm on the lower end of the price range. I really wish AMD would shoot some of the quads into the really low price range (sub 120$, maybe even sub 100$) mainly because intel couldn't be bothered. I do like how AMD is doing what they did back in the early 90's and using the same names as intel.

People are talking about how the PIIs might not be as fast as the i7s, but if they can outperform the last generation C2Qs for less price, I'd be in for one.

Quick edit : The thing about charting the speed/volts like that is(for the PII), we don't know if there is some volt wall or something. For instance, you might only need 1.4v to get it to 4.5ghz but then it takes 1.6 to get it above that, but then it only needs 1.6v to get to 6ghz or something wild like that. I'd be cool if it didn't though. (before someone points it out, the example has nothing to do with the data already posted.)

[White_Pawn]

hmmm. 1.9volts eh?

[Dapman02]

Please let this be true. If PII's are faster than the core 2 duos, than I can see AMD getting back some of the market. Nehalem is WAY to expensiver right now and people are looking for an alternative, I know if this is even remotely true, I'll be picking this up.

[Niku-Sama]

expenciveir?

any way we have a graph and no sources....except a pod cast

[Moto7451]

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=585505

See that thread as well. This news has been kicking around here for a couple days at least.

It's 6GHz at 1.9v on LN2. Ideally the Phenom II will go MHz for MHz with the 45nm C2Q and Ci7 with normal cooling so that the performance gap isn't so noticeable.

[Kuroimaho]

I wonder how many threads we need about still unreleased chip overclock results.

Originally Posted by Dolk

What do you guys think. With this information who do you think has the upper hand?

Who cares who has the upper had at 1.9V ? Maybe someone in the benching team.
I want the best price/power/performance for a daily rig and if we look at how many records did the 2900XT keep while the market ignored it for being too hot and was only overclockable with water or sub0 seems I am not alone.

This restarted Mhz war is pathetic from both companies especially if we consider how little the whole desktop performance segment worth and current market trends.

[Badbonji]

Well it seems that they think phenom's will still be just behind clock for clock the Yorkfield 45nm quads. So it will have to overclock more just to match the core i7 in many applications, although it won't matter in games unless you play at 640x480 as every game will still be mostly GPU limited.

Also,there aren't enough samples for the Phenom II to be accurate enough for a linear graph, those could be really good batches (or even bad as they are ES most probably)

Intel currently though look like they overclock better, getting to 4.5-5.5Ghz depending on model at 1.6V.

[Dolk]

Originally Posted by Kuroimaho

I
Who cares who has the upper had at 1.9V ? Maybe someone in the benching team.
I want the best price/power/performance for a daily rig and if we look at how many records did the 2900XT keep while the market ignored it for being too hot and was only overclockable with water or sub0 seems I am not alone.

I understand. The next part was suppose to be about the price difference. I've got the information just need to digest it.

Anyway, just look forward to that coming, hopefully this will all make sense to you guys later.

[Kuroimaho]

I think it is way too early to make these comparisons, remember the OC Macci and Tony had with the Phenom I BE an what the rest of us could reach, when we see the results from the community it will make sense, especially with power consumption results until then it is marketing.

If you need prices here you go.Link

Let the rip off begin.

920 is 187Pounds with Vat.
920 is 472$
940 is 532$

[jonspd]

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...=731996&page=4


post 47 down....


XS link

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=209878


Any thought? 31 muilt 2.0v? rofl bring it intel

[Dolk]

To All,
I added my second part that should have been in the original post. Sorry about all of this. And again sorry about the missleading title. {If I could get a Moderator to change the name of the title to: "Phenom II and i7 Overclocking".}

The second part talks about the price difference between the two. Overall I think it shows more information than the MHz to voltage ratio. It shows where AMD stands with what we "believe" they have.

To jonspd,
Thanks for finding that picture. I heard about that clock and the voltage for it (which ended up to be 1.9v) but there were no pics for that. I've added that as another source for my post.

To Kuroimaho
I have the prices of the PII in USD. Overall it looks better to go AMD right now rather than Intel. Read above to see what I mean.

I think it is way too early to make these comparisons, remember the OC Macci and Tony had with the Phenom I BE an what the rest of us could reach, when we see the results from the community it will make sense, especially with power consumption results until then it is marketing.

I think you can make a comparison but still hold it with a grain of salt. We know that both CPUs can reach a high OC, something we have never seen before. Intel was the only one that could go over 4.0ghz at a regular basis. Now that AMD has entered into the 4ghz and even up to the 6ghz, it is very important to see which one may have the higher ability to OC, which one is more cost effective, and above all which CPU suites you and your passion with Overclocking.

[jonspd]

NP also I think the 940 is gonna be right at 300 probably 299 IMHO according to read information lately

[Dolk]

Which would increase the MHz: price ration by a dramatic amount. In all honesty I'm geeking out here. I would like to get more data on the PII. Once there are more Overclocking results out there, then we can see a more accurate data comparison.

[jonspd]

we all would but until they hit the market in the USA we can only sit on our hands and wait

well that's what most of us have to do some few have an inside hand.......

[jonspd]

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...fore-christmas

[Dolk]

I'm going to put those prices into the charts and see what I get. Update in a couple mins.

Update:


This makes me very happy. Now just give me more OC performance by the PII and these graphs will look more accurate.

[Shiggity]

Sweet chart. Could you also put 775 quad numbers up there too?

[Dolk]

That is something I want to do, but I'll be out tonight. So when I wake up from the hangover I'll get to work on it

[KTE]

I can understand your aims are v.good but I really think you need to wait more. We are clueless about 940 retail numbers and the time is very close.

Retail 940 clocks will vary just as retail i7 clocks have varied. Large differences between CPUZ, Bench and daily usable Stable, too.

i7 just sits in a different boat altogether, I'm being frank here. It won't compare to K10 45nm and in any review where the comparison is made, the end result will look disastrous for all AMD CPUs when heavy multithreaded-ness kicks in. Just games/power/cost I can't say about, AMD has a chance in these.

They can reach 7.5GHz LN2, it still doesn't affect above 99% of the current world market demands. 150M Client CPU shipments and not even 1% care about above daily usage.

JMO

[KonaKona]

Originally Posted by KTE

I can understand your aims are v.good but I really think you need to wait more. We are clueless about 940 retail numbers and the time is very close.

Retail 940 clocks will vary just as retail i7 clocks have varied. Large differences between CPUZ, Bench and daily usable Stable, too.

i7 just sits in a different boat altogether, I'm being frank here. It won't compare to K10 45nm and in any review where the comparison is made, the end result will look disastrous for all AMD CPUs when heavy multithreaded-ness kicks in. Just games/power/cost I can't say about, AMD has a chance in these.

They can reach 7.5GHz LN2, it still doesn't affect above 99% of the current world market demands. 150M Client CPU shipments and not even 1% care about above daily usage.

JMO

7.5 would be a WR, wouldent it?

Last time I checked the WR was 7.2, from a bios screen no less.

[Cluster]

heh, 7.5ghz, stop teasing me

[Kuroimaho]

Originally Posted by Dolk

To Kuroimaho
I have the prices of the PII in USD. Overall it looks better to go AMD right now rather than Intel. Read above to see what I mean.

I thought Deneb isn't out yet so what makes AMD the best choice ? Phenom ?

Originally Posted by Dolk

I think you can make a comparison but still hold it with a grain of salt. We know that both CPUs can reach a high OC.

We don't know what retail Deneb can reach but we know what retail C2D/Q can do which isn't on your list of parts and as far as I know still the bestseller processor.

You can say there is little benefit for the majority from using 8 thread capable processors and I agree but it works both ways, there are several threads on the forum whether we need quads or not yet.
I would say the best deal is still a C2D ocd to 4G for half the price of a Deneb, now with 3.5G capable Propus at 200$ that will change but that's still a few months away.

[bldegle2]

I was in SF last night at AMD's invite only event...

6.2 LN2 1.9v (WPrime 32bit run, an amazing 6.33 seconds, don't blink, click mousey and done)
5.8+ LN2 Crysis time demo passed
4.4 on Prometia phase change (-60*c)
4 gig on air (stock cooler can be used), the one setup I checked for air temps @4gig was running @13/14*c idle on all cores with the huge CoolerMaster double fanned heatpipes....

No cherry picks, all random retail products, well, except for the LN2 demo, they picked the fastest of three CPU's picked at random before the event, the other 2 only did 5.5gig stable on LN2, I take one, LOL.....

It is for real, don't expect the market to be flooded before Xmas, Jan/Feb 2009 is expected mainstream injection....

They also had side by side, DDR2 versus DDR3 with ATI 4800's, virtually the exact same performance.....

Woohoo, AMD with some Intel type of headroom finally............

So, for right now DDR2 will do the deed nicely, saving early converts some hard earned forking for the DDR3, and the DDR3 MB's are WAY EXPENSIVE right now....

laterzzzz...............

[KTE]

Originally Posted by KonaKona

7.5 would be a WR, wouldent it?

Last time I checked the WR was 7.2, from a bios screen no less.

Sorry, I said that in the intention that didn't come across right... as in "they can reach 50GHz under LN2, it still won't affect over 99% of the buyers". Especially since the economic conditions are extremely low for semiconductor sales, demand for uptake of products is minimal but where dear necessity exists and AMDs position is in the most critical state in these months (since they were struggling before these drastic economic conditions onset). They need high volume sales.

On your other note, you are right but you probably don't recollect as accurately the first figure. It was 8.2GHz by duck.

[Badbonji]

It is not just a comparison of mhz to price, as Mhz don't mean as much considering Intel is more efficient clock for clock than AMD, and would also depend on every application. So really it isn't as useful, as a 4Ghz Core I7 will probably be as good as a 4.5Ghz Phenom II on average.

[AlabamaCajun]

Originally Posted by Badbonji

It is not just a comparison of mhz to price, as Mhz don't mean as much considering Intel is more efficient clock for clock than AMD, and would also depend on every application. So really it isn't as useful, as a 4Ghz Core I7 will probably be as good as a 4.5Ghz Phenom II on average.

This is mostly only true if compiled with Intels optimizer. AMD has gotten much closer than K8 vs the C2 and C7 is C2 with QP and some upgrading to the cores. I think both companies have pushed these products to the next level now is more of just seeing which one we can have more fun with. I'll have more fun if my wallet is not aflame.

Folks, lets not go into a pi**ing over benches, I all for seeing what will work best for us. I don't have a bottle of LN2 or Phase in my office so super chilling is just a spectator sport for me. I will be using the max TI to air coolers and getting the most out of one of these Phentoos.

[zif33rs]

Great read...have to say if this is true it has exceeded my expectations for PII. The 3rd chart is what gets my attentions...not high clocks...its going to be price for performance that will win AMD market share.


Thanks for all the compiled info Dolk.

Thanks for attending the event Bldegle2.

[Dolk]

Currently watching http://www.mogulus.com/amdunprocessed

EDIT:
So I was watching the broadcast and got in there late so I didn't catch it all. But I did get this information while listening.
All of these settings were done on Crysis except for the 6.3 ghz
6.3 hit 200 fsb 1.966v 31multi
3.9 1.5v passed CRYSIS
3.94 1.5v passed CRYSIS

5.6 ??v in Crysis
6.0 ??v Crysis

[KTE]

Originally Posted by Dolk

All AMD Motherboards that were compared have been checked with the AM3 Compatible Motherboard list.

All Prices for i7 Motherboards, i7 CPUs, and AM2+ Motherboards came from www.newegg.com

Whats the 1k Intel price for i7 920, do you know?

The best board for Deneb so far is GBT 790GX and the top recommendation.