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Assistance needed with fist time build. (first post too :))

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GardenofWar

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Case: Thermaltake Armor + LCS VH6000 Series Full Tower Case (Black)
Power Supply Unit: Ultra X3 1600w PSU
Motherboard: (ATX) X-58, 3-way SLI; Classified Mainboard (EVGA)
Core Processor: Intel Core i7 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130w Quad-Core Processor
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 H2OC ThermoIntelligence (BFG)
Memory: Corsair Dominator GT 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-pin DDR3 SDRAM @ 2,000MHz (PC3 16000) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model with DHX & Airflow Fan
OS: Microsoft Windows Vista 64-bit (OEM)
Tools: Ultra 130 Piece Premium Tool Kit
Others: the case came with an all coper waterblock for Intel P4 775/478 and AMD AM2/K8 processors. Also includes 3/8 tubing. This case has a built in reservoir and rad.

Okay I obviously plan on using the res and rad that are built into the case. I bought it for this purpose in attempts at simplifying this for myself as this is not only my first liquid-cooled build but my first build period. Did I bite off too much, or am I in good hands? I thought it would be a cake walk at first. Now that I have done some nosing around this forum and others I am not sure of myself. It seems the more I look into one thing or another the more I am not sure of as it seems there are many things to consider; even scientific and quantitative data/schematics etc. I’m not stupid it’s just that doing something for the first time where I have so many bones invested, well; it makes me a bit hesitant.

So that is pretty much my system as was listed above (or is going to be or so I hope, lol) . What I plan on liquid-cooling is my processor and graphics card to start with; however I would like to make provisions for the future. I have heard it said that good layout and planning or the most important part of this. Eventually I would like to cool my ram, get an additional 295 GTX for essentially quad SLI, and maybe even cool one of my hard drives (10,000rpm). Can I do this or should I designate separate loops and get yet additional hardware: pumps/rads/reservoirs, etc? Anyhow I guess let’s start with the more basics:

1) I was first wondering about the layout, specifically the order (however I don’t know what all needs to be taken into account here)
2) Secondly the tubing size; I wanted to get ½ Tygon, though already connected to the pump and res in of my case is 3/8 inch with quick connectors at the ends going into it for me to take it from there. Will this create a chock point if I at that point go to 1/2 thereafter?
3) Waterblock: which one? I was thinking on from Danger Den but I don’t know. I found one that they make for the i7. Can I cool the motherboard, North and South Bridge or get one that does this all with one block?
4) Thermal Compound (Arctic Sliver #5): the best?
5) Well to be continued until I know more…

I plan on putting this beast together on the 22nd – 24th of this month and well, I pretty much need it done by then so I need to get my waterblocks ordered and delivered in time. Also money is not really an issue to some extent; I would just rather get higher end components even if I have to pay a little more for them. Thank you in advance for reading this and for any of you that offer help: it is greatly appreciated. Already surfing around this forum I have learned quite a bit, thanks.

Garden of War
 
Ur setup is awsome besides the water cooling. Im preety sure the radiator that comes with that case is a 120mm and thats nothing for a GTX 295 and i7 proseser. Go with a custom loop. If money is no problem, go with two loops since you need it to go with quad sli with the GTX 295.

CPU block: Heatkiller

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=199&products_id=25218

Pump: Swiftech MCP655

http://www.petrastechshop.com/swmcin12pu.html

GPU block: BFG GeForce GTX 295 H20 Video Card

Rez: Danger Den Clear 5.25 Dual Bay Reservoir ($32)

http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadendu51bay.html

You also need a radaitor but this is up to u. if u go with 2 loops you need a 2X120, and a 3X120 (for video cards).
 
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First, remember you're going to be getting opinions only. Take them for what they're worth; just opinions, hopefully from experienced builders.

Before we get started, ditch any idea of cooling RAM or HDDs with water. It's pointless expense as long as you have half-way decent airflow through your case, which you'll need with or without water cooling.
1) I was first wondering about the layout, specifically the order (however I don’t know what all needs to be taken into account here)
Loop order is basically irrelevant. The only "rule", and it's a loose one at that, is to have the pump before the radiator, so that it dumps whatever heat the pump adds to the loop before getting to the components. If tubing length, component positioning or even aesthetics prevent this, by all means order your loop how you wish. Temps 'normalize' in a water loop. All components will end up being within a few degrees of each other.
2) Secondly the tubing size; I wanted to get ½ Tygon, though already connected to the pump and res in of my case is 3/8 inch with quick connectors at the ends going into it for me to take it from there. Will this create a chock point if I at that point go to 1/2 thereafter?
Don't get the case with built-in stuff and go 1/2" or 7/16" ID all around. Thermaltake water cooling equipment is...well, I can't put it nicely; it's crap. If, as you say, money isn't too much of an issue, then don't put Thermaltake anything in your loop. Tygon is really expensive for tubing and not worth the money. I use XSPC 7/16" ID tubing and it's great. Flexible and you have to try pretty hard to kink it. Jab-Tech sells it if you're interested.
3) Waterblock: which one? I was thinking on from Danger Den but I don’t know. I found one that they make for the i7. Can I cool the motherboard, North and South Bridge or get one that does this all with one block?
HeatKiller is presently the accepted "best" on the market. I think (someone help me out here) they are restrictive, so if you go with one, you might consider putting the CPU in its own loop. Alternatively, the D.Tek Fuzion v.2 and Apogee GTZ are both great blocks with readily available skt 1366 adapters (assuming DTek has fixed the bolt issue).
4) Thermal Compound (Arctic Sliver #5): the best?
Not any more. It's good, but there are better. IC Diamond 7 Carat and Shin Etsu (certain models) are the best. They're also really expensive as TIM (thermal interface material...better than typing it out most of the time) goes. I use Arctic Cooling MX-2. In my experience, it gains at least 2C over AS:5 consistently and is in the same price range. It also isn't capacitive like AS:5 and won't fry components if some goes over the edge.

Ok, that answers those. Now for some non-asked answers. If you like that Tt case, get it, but don't use the built-in water cooling. If money really isn't an issue, you might consider Mountain Mods. They are the most builder-friendly water cooling cases out there, but you'll pay for that.

For best temps, use independent loops. If I weren't strapped, I'd have one for the CPU & NB and one for the PWM & GPU.

As a first time water cooler and builder, the easiest pump/res you can get is the Swiftech MCP355 (or Liang DDC, depending on where you buy from) with an XSPC res top. Pump & res in one easy to use solution. I absolutely love mine and couldn't be convinced to use anything else. Easiest fill and bleed you'll ever get.

Well I'm all out of opinions. Someone please help me remember whether HKs are restrictive or not, I just can't remember off the top of my head right now.

Lastly, if a friendly mod comes along, please move this to the water cooling section.

Cheers and welcome to OCF! :beer:
 
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I don't know much about water cooling but hokiealumnus is spot on with his evaluation on thermaltake water cooling kits. They are crap!! I will hopefully (funds allowing) be looking to build a water cooling solution myself soon since I now have the case for one (space for a tripple 120 RAD) . Good luck on your first build. Talk about jumping in the deep-end lol. oh, and Welcome to O/C Forums :welcome::beer:
 
Ur setup is awsome besides the water cooling. Im preety sure the radiator that comes with that case is a 120mm and thats nothing for a GTX 295 and i7 proseser. Go with a custom loop. If money is no problem, go with two loops since you need it to go with quad sli with the GTX 295.

Thanks, and yes, the radiator that comes with the case is a 120mm, but the thing is I already purchased this case. I would like to use it and the pump it came with (P500 DC12v (500L/hr)). So my next question would be; is this sufficient to cool say just my graphics card(s) if placed in its own loop? If not both graphics cards; what about just one graphics card so I can get this thing up and running? This would buy me sufficient time to research a better plan, as I already wish I had done. Now I am trying to build and test this thing here very shortly as I have likewise purchased all the other components. If something is not working I would like to know ahead of time as I don't have much time to return things otherwise. Something like 30 days on most of these products. Oh and thank you for the product recommendations I will check those out as well.

First, remember you're going to be getting opinions only. Take them for what they're worth; just opinions, hopefully from experienced builders.

Before we get started, ditch any idea of cooling RAM or HDDs with water. It's pointless expense as long as you have half-way decent airflow through your case, which you'll need with or without water cooling.

Most certainly I am a noob at this; however, where I was seeking to see the biggest increase in performance was in write speeds, for saving files? Is this what the RAM and HDD are responsible for? They already sell a kit for my RAM from Corsair for $199.00, and I have seen things for HDD. The reason being is that I am a big into map modding and it is creating so much damn custom data that takes FOREVER. What's more is that if I find a bug in one of my levels it is nearly impossible to find with how slow my read and write speeds are as my methods for doing so are quite precarious although almost have to be with how much data I am dealing with.

Loop order is basically irrelevant. The only "rule", and it's a loose one at that, is to have the pump before the radiator, so that it dumps whatever heat the pump adds to the loop before getting to the components. If tubing length, component positioning or even aesthetics prevent this, by all means order your loop how you wish. Temps 'normalize' in a water loop. All components will end up being within a few degrees of each other.

Don't get the case with built-in stuff and go 1/2" or 7/16" ID all around. Thermaltake water cooling equipment is...well, I can't put it nicely; it's crap. If, as you say, money isn't too much of an issue, then don't put Thermaltake anything in your loop. Tygon is really expensive for tubing and not worth the money. I use XSPC 7/16" ID tubing and it's great. Flexible and you have to try pretty hard to kink it. Jab-Tech sells it if you're interested.

Kinda of too late, I already got the case sitting here in front of me, built in liquid cooling system and everything (and yes I paid more for this unfortunately, so now that I got it I would kind of like to put it to use). Can I not use it for anything? Can it handle my graphics card; mind you which is already over-clocked out of the box? The reason I want to put my GPU on it so bad is because currently that is the only thing requiring liquid cooling for me to test run my system, though I am quite thinking I would want to put it on something else and get new and better gear for the graphics card? Any thoughts?

HeatKiller is presently the accepted "best" on the market. I think (someone help me out here) they are restrictive, so if you go with one, you might consider putting the CPU in its own loop. Alternatively, the D.Tek Fuzion v.2 and Apogee GTZ are both great blocks with readily available skt 1366 adapters (assuming DTek has fixed the bolt issue).

Hmmm, I will take this into account though I would like to hear from a few others as you say as such these are opinions. Anyone else have some light to shed on the subject of the best waterblock to use for an i7?

Not any more. It's good, but there are better. IC Diamond 7 Carat and Shin Etsu (certain models) are the best. They're also really expensive as TIM (thermal interface material...better than typing it out most of the time) goes. I use Arctic Cooling MX-2. In my experience, it gains at least 2C over AS:5 consistently and is in the same price range. It also isn't capacitive like AS:5 and won't fry components if some goes over the edge.

Okay I will take your word on this, I guess its just what I had heard was all the hype (Arctic Silver), thanks for letting me know otherwise. If IC Diamond 7 Carat and Shin Etsu (certain models) are the best, which would you or others prefer?

Ok, that answers those. Now for some non-asked answers. If you like that Tt case, get it, but don't use the built-in water cooling. If money really isn't an issue, you might consider Mountain Mods. They are the most builder-friendly water cooling cases out there, but you'll pay for that.

For best temps, use independent loops. If I weren't strapped, I'd have one for the CPU & NB and one for the PWM & GPU.

As a first time water cooler and builder, the easiest pump/res you can get is the Swiftech MCP355 (or Liang DDC, depending on where you buy from) with an XSPC res top. Pump & res in one easy to use solution. I absolutely love mine and couldn't be convinced to use anything else. Easiest fill and bleed you'll ever get.

Well I'm all out of opinions. Someone please help me remember whether HKs are restrictive or not, I just can't remember off the top of my head right now.

Lastly, if a friendly mod comes along, please move this to the water cooling section.

Cheers and welcome to OCF! :beer:

Oops, sorry to post in wrong section. Thanks for the warm welcome hokiealumnus and your help, it is greatly appreciated. :beer:

I don't know much about water cooling but hokiealumnus is spot on with his evaluation on thermaltake water cooling kits. They are crap!! I will hopefully (funds allowing) be looking to build a water cooling solution myself soon since I now have the case for one (space for a tripple 120 RAD) . Good luck on your first build. Talk about jumping in the deep-end lol. oh, and Welcome to O/C Forums :welcome::beer:

Hmm, what you say and what ad05 along with hokiealumnus makes me think that my built in equipment is just not going to cut it even for just my graphics card on a closed loop. Hmm, I am feeling kinda of pinched now. Again any thoughts on this would really help me to seek some direction on where to go from here. Also thank you jmdixon85 for the welcome and assistance.:beer:

P.S.: I think that I am somewhat limited to external apparatuses as I cannot place a rad,pump/res combo on either the top of my unit, or connected to the back ( I have a sliding door for my motherboard, etc.)
 
CPU block:
Watercool HEATKILLER® CPU Rev3.0 1366 CPU Water Block
MC-TDX for Intel I7/Nehalem/1366
MPC-CPU - i7 Nehalem/1366 Block
D-TEK FuZion v2 CPU Block

Which one?

I was thinking the D-TEK FuZion v2 CPU Block (because of low flow restriction) though it doesn't say it supports mine and what about this (bolt issue?) I have heard to steer clear of the Apogee GTZ? Any thoughts? All around I feel the safest with the Danger Den just because I have heard many good things about them and their reputation as well as their block works specifically for the 1366 with nothing more needed. If so which Danger Den block would you go with and why, or if not why would you not go Danger Den?

Okay I looked at your product recommendations:
Pump: Swiftech MCP655

http://www.petrastechshop.com/swmcin12pu.html

GPU block: BFG GeForce GTX 295 H20 Video Card

Rez: Danger Den Clear 5.25 Dual Bay Reservoir ($32)

http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadendu51bay.html

You also need a radaitor but this is up to u. if u go with 2 loops you need a 2X120, and a 3X120 (for video cards).[/QUOTE]

Since I plan on using the built in equipment that came with my case (already taking up the top three 5.25 drive bays), would this fit below my built in setup starting from the ground up? I have 7, 5.25 drive bays with three already in use for the current cooling system and one needed for my optical drive (an LG blue ray read/write drive). how would airflow be constricted with the rad blowing the air up into my optical drive? Would this work or was this suggestion to use in scraping what already came with my case?
 
The rad is aluminum and can't begin to cool an i7 stock. The pump is weak and if you add a modern CPU block it will restrict the flow. The pump is junk.

I'm sorry, but you'll have to dump the watercooling and start over. Wish you got here before you bought the case. Can you send it back? The case is nice but I can't help you at all if you use any of the TT WC parts. Start over?
 
The rad is aluminum and can't begin to cool an i7 stock. The pump is weak and if you add a modern CPU block it will restrict the flow. The pump is junk.

I'm sorry, but you'll have to dump the watercooling and start over. Wish you got here before you bought the case. Can you send it back? The case is nice but I can't help you at all if you use any of the TT WC parts. Start over?

Sigh, I wish I had gotten here faster as well. I watched a stupid 3DGuru review of this case and now I am thinking he is either a dipsh*t or just paid off because he made this thing out to be all the rage with lots of room for expanding to cool anything you throw at it. Now I see that he probably just figured if you were buying this setup you were to noob to know anyhow.

So could I even salvage this to cool my RAM as I had wanted to do? Certainly tiny little RAM can't require that much cooling? I mean is this thing 100% useless in cooling anything in my computer? Even on a separate loop can I use it for something? I don't mind having to get additional equipment as I now see is needed but its a principle thing at this point for me to use what I do have. Where would you go from here if say I was starting over, though I would like to find some small use for what I have already purchased? I guess I am kind of looking for someone to say, "this is the best setup you could do with that case and those components, get this..this...and this..." and then if others agree and what not I would just follow that. I really have no reservoir of knowledge to base any opinions of my own on. Maybe after I build this bad boy I will, but for now, if this was your set up how would you approach it?

I think it is too late to take this thing back, but I will be looking into that, however not tonight it is too late already. I will let you know if I can. I do like the case; just wish I had not got the liquid-cooled set up.
 
You don't need to cool your ram. I can't think of one person on the 4 forums I frequent for the last 2 years that cools their ram.

Many review sites are close friends with the manufacturers. They have links to items for sale. They get a cut, they get payed to advertise. Thats why you can never find a unbiased review of any TT WC stuff.
 
You don't need to cool your ram. I can't think of one person on the 4 forums I frequent for the last 2 years that cools their ram.

Many review sites are close friends with the manufacturers. They have links to items for sale. They get a cut, they get payed to advertise. Thats why you can never find a unbiased review of any TT WC stuff.

Okay I wont worry about the RAM or HDD, but I am curious as to why? Can these things not be OCed and that is why it is meaningless to do so?
 
Ya, if u are going to get a new case get a Coolermaster HAf 932. It has room for a triple rad on top and double or mabye even triple if u mod in the front.
 
Okay I wont worry about the RAM or HDD, but I am curious as to why? Can these things not be OCed and that is why it is meaningless to do so?

LOL you can't overclock the hard drive. Ram is overclocked naturally when you incease the speed of the CPU (i7 is a bit diff no biggie). Ram runs plenty cool with no extra cooling. Why spend $100+ to cool something that doesn't need it? And there are no good watercooling solutions for RAM anyway.
 
Ya, if u are going to get a new case get a Coolermaster HAf 932. It has room for a triple rad on top and double or mabye even triple if u mod in the front.

Okay so I think I can still return the case that I purchased and am in the process of trying to now. I had three more days till my thirty day period was up! :eek:, close call. Okay so I will check out that HAf case now.

Seeing as this opens up my options: where should I go from here? Any other suggestions on cases, given my components and allowing for expandability?
 
lol

HAF is the biggest u can get. You can have a triple/double on top, triple if u mod, double if u dont in the front, and a single on the bottom(space for powersupply). So i think the HAf is the best case that you can get and its the biggest too. Wish i had it
 
lol

HAF is the biggest u can get. You can have a triple/double on top, triple if u mod, double if u dont in the front, and a single on the bottom(space for powersupply). So i think the HAf is the best case that you can get and its the biggest too. Wish i had it

What about the CosmosS Vs. the HAF?
 
Tell ya what, I'll give you this link. It shows TONS of many diff build logs of cases with internal water cooling. Take your time, WC is a hobby and just fun as heck if you like tinkering. This forum/website link is the top of all forums, so tread lightly, but MUST be bookmarked by anyone who wants to watercool. Worth becoming a member, and 100% supported by members. World class famous overclockers reside here.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223835

Please take your time learning about watercooling. You now know that you can't OC a hard drive and to WC your ram is worthless. We see these questions all the time. It can really help you to read the last 30-50-60 posts in the watercooling forum, a sub forum here. This thread should die and you should read for a week or so in the WC forum, then start again with a new 'help me figure it out' kinda post.

I like to think we are a bridge between XS forum and crap sites. Lots of experianced watercoolers, many who frequent lots of sites. A good middle ground, we accept noobs, give solid input, but expect some homework in return. Few get turned away here.

We won't steer you wrong, we know what to suggest, but you gotta get the basic knowledge first. I like to think OCForums builds great first rigs, no one ever has a fail if they do it right the first time.
 
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