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My new WC design

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Old 11-29-09, 09:58 PM Thread Starter   #1
simurg
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My new WC design


I am planning to build a water cooled system that will be OC'd heavily. For the moment I only have the case, Azza Solana 1000 and PSU 850W Azza PSU.

Here is my plan:

MSI 790FX-GD70
Athlon II X4 620
2*2GB DDR3 1600
Quad CrossFire MSI 4670
Intel X25-M80GB SSD for OS
4-5 Spindle Raid 5 for Media (Pictures, Video)

My goal is building an expandable system and most likely I will buy the parts over time. I am building this system for fun and not particular reason such as gaming. It is more like experimentation.

My case is very well ventilated so I believe it can easily handle multiple spindles and graphic cards. I will most likely water cool the CPU and the NG chip. Noise is concern for me. I expect the computer to be completely quiet when there is no load. When there is load, I don't mind a little bit noise which can be curtailed by slow music. I guess this would be around 40-45db.

As you see I have fully loaded full tower so I want to put the radiator out from the box. I think that would be much more efficient. I am planning to use swiftech based solution because of affordable quality unless someone can show me a working affordable combined solution.

For the moment, I consider:

Swiftech MCR220-QP Res
Swiftech MCP655 12 VDC Pump
Swiftech Apogee GTZ Extreme Performance CPU Waterblock - Core i7
Swiftech MCRES-Micro Rev 2
Arctic Fan 12 PWM - ACF12PWM
Tygon R-3400 1/2" ID 3/4" OD - UV Resistant black Tubing
Distilled Water + Anti Freeze (3 part Water 1 part AF)

My questions/considerations are:

1. I need the radiator sticking up rather than going down. This will let me use the predrilled holes and have clearance for VGA inputs hence I got the radiator with reservoir. Unfortunately, I cannot use 320 radiator because it will stick up behind the case. I read that 220 is not enough for most over clocked systems. I am planning to use high end Phenom cpu's with this system in the future. Based on this what do you say? 220 would be the killer bottleneck? Is there an alternative radiator I can use with my case?

2. Do I need the MCRES given that that Radiator has already reservoir?

3. What do you think about the tubing? It seems like PVC tubing does not have good quality.

4. I am planning to use AF mixed with distilled water. Any alternative or additional additivies?

5. I want the fans and the pump go faster based on the coolant and/or cpu temperature. Is there a way to achieve this?

6. I have PC's that lasted way over 10 years. What is the durability of water cooling parts? Do the tubes, pumps leak and kill the system? I read that distilled water will not kill the PC circuits. Don't the additives make coolant conductive hence dangerous for the circuitry?

Thanks for all the suggestions....
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Old 11-29-09, 10:50 PM   #2
Spawn-Inc

 
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1. if your going to be overclocking a quad heavily then you need a triple or a loud double 120mm rad. you can always try a double 120mm rad and move up if it's not good, or reduce the oc.

swiftech rads are great but they are not the best, i know your wanting a low cost rad, but if you can swing it grab an XSPC RX220 or thermochill 120.2 or black ice SR-1 240 or ek XT 240. all work great with low speed fans.

2. if you stick with the mcr res series then no, you can use the built in res that it has.

3. tygon is good, never tried it though. it's overpriced IMO. i like masterkleer 7/16" x 5/8" it provides a tighter seal and will reduce the chance of leaks a bit.

4. there is no reason to use antifreeze in the loop that you purpose. the only time antifreeze is needed in a loop is when you are going below freezing or if you are mixing metals such as copper and aluminum. otherwise it will just reduce the heat transfer that distilled water has.

you will need a biocide to stop growth. i use pt nuke and silver fittings.

silver kill coil

Silver Strip

PT nuke PHN

5. you can change the fan speeds fairly easy i believe with the motherboard header, but the pump speed is a bit more complicated. someone else should speak up on it.
the pump you are getting is VERY quiet anyhow so it shouldn't need changing.

6. the pump, block and rad will last a good deal if you treat it with care, which is sounds like you do with your pc's. liquids, tubing, clamps will need replacing once in a while.

yes distilled in it's own fresh is non-conductive, but once it goes in the loop it will pick up ions and such and become conductive. nothing can stop it, even with the brand name coolants. which are not very good btw.

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Old 11-30-09, 12:09 AM   #3
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You cannot be fully quiet. No matter what, you have to have fans. You can be very quiet. You do that by getting a too big rad (for you a 120x3 size with low fins per inch) and puting medium fans on it and fan controlling them to low spped when your not under load. My setup is quiet under load too, I overrad.

The DDC 3.2 pump is silent as silent can be in a PC. You don't need to slow the pump down.

Big link, spend a few days looking at all the stuff, begin building as you learn.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/25...rcooling-guide

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Old 11-30-09, 02:13 AM Thread Starter   #4
simurg
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Thanks for the suggestions. I noticed that my biggest problem is my case, which is the only component I bought. It was done in rush to save $$$. Since it is a clone of Antec 900 or 1200; it shares the same limitation with WC holes in the middle of the case.

I was considering using MCR220-QP Res so that I can mount the radiator going up as opposed to going down. This will allow me to utilize the existing holes. If if I need use some other radiators with no top reservoir then I need to drill new holes to the case.

I feel like there would be problems with rear mounting of the radiator when you want to use the rear jacks of PCI or VGA cards. Can someone comment on this? Will there be enough clearance between the case and radiator for connecting cables?

What do you guys think about stacking radiators? Since I am planning to do the rear mounting, I would prefer shorter solution such as stacking from portability perspective.
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Old 11-30-09, 02:34 AM   #5
Blazing fire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conumdrum View Post
...

The DDC 3.2 pump is silent as silent can be in a PC. You don't need to slow the pump down.

...
On speed 5, there is a high pitch whine. Between speed 2 to 5, there is a distinctive sound and it vibrates. Thus, I won't consider it "silent" but I agree that it is rather quiet. I set mine to speed 2 and the decrease in water flow does not seem to impact temps much (1 or 2 C)

I agree with the above posts, with the exception of using the MCR radiator as a reservoir.

Getting my feet wet (need help)

"The MCR res rads are kinda a gimmick. It's really hard to keep them full on bleeding a loop, easy to keep sucking air. You have to put them vertical. Getting a standard res or the ever so popular (I have two) aftermarket XSPC res top for the MCP355 pump is the easiest way." - conundrum.

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Old 11-30-09, 08:08 AM   #6
hokiealumnus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simurg View Post
Thanks for the suggestions. I noticed that my biggest problem is my case, which is the only component I bought. It was done in rush to save $$$. Since it is a clone of Antec 900 or 1200; it shares the same limitation with WC holes in the middle of the case.

I was considering using MCR220-QP Res so that I can mount the radiator going up as opposed to going down. This will allow me to utilize the existing holes. If if I need use some other radiators with no top reservoir then I need to drill new holes to the case.

I feel like there would be problems with rear mounting of the radiator when you want to use the rear jacks of PCI or VGA cards. Can someone comment on this? Will there be enough clearance between the case and radiator for connecting cables?

What do you guys think about stacking radiators? Since I am planning to do the rear mounting, I would prefer shorter solution such as stacking from portability perspective.
You can mount any radiator up or down. It may just take a little longer to bleed with the holes at the bottom, that's all. While bleeding the loop, just shake it gently and the bubbles will break free. Or, if you prefer to bleed with the rad mounted, tap the sides with a screwdriver to knock them loose. You might end up with a bubble or two but they'll work their way out eventually and won't be much of a detriment to temps, if any.

I've got no connection difficulties, but you may; it depends on where your connections are and how long the connectors are. I use a DVI-to-VGA adapter for my monitor hookup and it fits off to the side of my rad. The rad will be mounted on the rear 120mm fan hole. Put a straight-edge lined up with the holes closest to the MB and see how much your PCIe/PCI expansion slots are covered up. If you have something that would be covered, check how far the connector would stick out and see if it will be a problem. Click "Water Cooled RC690" in my sig to see an externally mounted MCR320.

Stacking radiators aren't a very good solution. The performance gain isn't worth the money. Stacking two MCR220's would be about equal to one MCR320 and cost more.

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Old 11-30-09, 09:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazing fire View Post
On speed 5, there is a high pitch whine. Between speed 2 to 5, there is a distinctive sound and it vibrates. Thus, I won't consider it "silent" but I agree that it is rather quiet. I set mine to speed 2 and the decrease in water flow does not seem to impact temps much (1 or 2 C)

I agree with the above posts, with the exception of using the MCR radiator as a reservoir.

Getting my feet wet (need help)

"The MCR res rads are kinda a gimmick. It's really hard to keep them full on bleeding a loop, easy to keep sucking air. You have to put them vertical. Getting a standard res or the ever so popular (I have two) aftermarket XSPC res top for the MCP355 pump is the easiest way." - conundrum.
The DDC 3.2 is the smaller pump, your thinking of the D5 vario Blaze. My D5 has a slight whine to it too.

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Old 11-30-09, 09:20 AM   #8
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You guys must have bionic hearing or I'm deaf. I can barely hear my D5 @ 5 in an open case with nothing else running but a 350w Antec PSU. Throw it is a closed case with the other fans running, forget about even hearing it at all.

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Old 11-30-09, 05:50 PM Thread Starter   #9
simurg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hokiealumnus View Post
You can mount any radiator up or down. It may just take a little longer to bleed with the holes at the bottom, that's all. While bleeding the loop, just shake it gently and the bubbles will break free. Or, if you prefer to bleed with the rad mounted, tap the sides with a screwdriver to knock them loose. You might end up with a bubble or two but they'll work their way out eventually and won't be much of a detriment to temps, if any.

I've got no connection difficulties, but you may; it depends on where your connections are and how long the connectors are. I use a DVI-to-VGA adapter for my monitor hookup and it fits off to the side of my rad. The rad will be mounted on the rear 120mm fan hole. Put a straight-edge lined up with the holes closest to the MB and see how much your PCIe/PCI expansion slots are covered up. If you have something that would be covered, check how far the connector would stick out and see if it will be a problem. Click "Water Cooled RC690" in my sig to see an externally mounted MCR320.

Stacking radiators aren't a very good solution. The performance gain isn't worth the money. Stacking two MCR220's would be about equal to one MCR320 and cost more.
Waow you got very close to what I want to build. I wish I can see the back of your RC 690. I don't know why people always take the picture of beatiful interiors and ignore the behemoth in the back

Here is what I decided:

I think I will go with MCR320 or MCR 220 based on the space I have. They may not be the best but they are the only ones with reservoir. This is important for me because I want radiator inlet and outlet to be at the bottom to eliminate the need for long running hoses at the back.

Hokiealumnus, what kind of shrouds you used? Will Thermochill shrouds work with Swiftech radiators?
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Old 11-30-09, 06:40 PM   #10
Blazing fire
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Opps! I have not been in touch for some time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyjaxx View Post
You guys must have bionic hearing or I'm deaf. I can barely hear my D5 @ 5 in an open case with nothing else running but a 350w Antec PSU. Throw it is a closed case with the other fans running, forget about even hearing it at all.
Perhaps we are just more sensitive to high pitch noises? :shurgs:

Would the DDC3.2 be a better option than D5? Apparently, the D5 has higher heat dump and less pressure.


Last edited by Blazing fire; 11-30-09 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 11-30-09, 07:23 PM   #11
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Simurg - My point was that you can mount the radiator's inlet & outlet at the bottom regardless of whether there is a reservoir or not. It might just take a little while to bleed completely, that's it. Get yourself a res for the interior (or a T-line with no res at all) if that's what you would prefer. Don't let radiator barb placement be the only deciding factor.

As far a shrouds, I gutted some old 38mm fans. Wish I had 25mm as it should perform slightly better, but that's all I had. The cheapest way to get shrouds (and you'll hate yourself for doing it) is to buy Yate Loon fans from Jab-Tech for something around $4.00/ea and gut them. Sucks destroying perfectly good fans, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper than any pre-made shrouds you'll be gouged for price on.

Blazing Fire - "Better" is a relative term. If you want higher pressure or need it with a highly restrictive loop, a DDC3.2 w/ aftermarket top is the way to go. If you have a relatively low restriction loop and just want to move mass amounts of water, the D5 is the way to go. They are both excellent and there is no better per se; just better for a given loop.

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Old 12-11-09, 11:48 PM   #12
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At what "restriction level" would both pumps perform the same? In other words, at which point would the DDC3.2 surpass the D5 in terms of flow?

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Old 12-11-09, 11:53 PM   #13
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I know! It all depends on stuff. Hope that helps.........

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Old 12-12-09, 12:15 AM   #14
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For shrouds you can also get some sheet metal and bend your own, or stick the fans on bamboo skewers (such as for shanking foods for BBQ'd goodness) out from the radiator a bit then wrap plastic wrap around the edge of the rad and fans. That'd be the cheapest way, if a bit on the ghetto side

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