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Old 12-19-09, 09:02 AM Thread Starter   #1
Jeffery_Paul
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hose clamps?


When I set up my loop (only a month or so ago) and I checked up on it recently while struggling to work out my mess of cables so I can take some photos, but noticed one of the hose clamps (I use the plastic ones that came with my bitspower fittings since I ordered the wrong size wormdrive clamps) had let go and was hanging loose.

Was that a once off defect or should I be worried about these types of clamp?

I don't think I overtightened them, although lack of experience means I cant be sure.

Anyone else had this problem? the tubing is tight on the barbs so nothing leaked

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Old 12-19-09, 09:26 AM   #2
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dont use them myself because of fear of what you describe happening but most people at the time I enquired said they work fine.

I think once clipped they slide apart easyer in one direction than the other so if you clip them facing the fitting its harder for them to be knocked loose.

as for tubing your maybe lucky its now as opposed to later when the tubings assumed the profile round the barb it tends to proceed to open out slightly and create a gap and then leak.

wrong size worm clamps make a fine job of pinching the hose and creating a gap in the seal so you went with the better option anyhow.

another type I avoid is metal spring clips, just have visions of one failing and having a couple of random chunks of metal flying off to short out some lucky circuits.
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Old 12-19-09, 09:58 AM   #3
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Well I'm sure not a fan of them clamps Jeffery_Paul mention, and not a fan of wormdrive clamps either for that matter :




The reason why is that I have seen that edge (marked with an arrow) bent inwards so it actually punctured the waterline.


My first choice is this type ;



They are rather stiff - so a plier might be a necessity when handling them.


My second choice is actually zip-ties - two ties on the coupling with the lock 180 degrees of each other - works like a dream and are cheap too. Zip-ties with the same color as the hoses make them always invisible - so it looks neat and tidy too
Just don't overtight them....
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Old 12-19-09, 10:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreeme View Post

The reason why is that I have seen that edge (marked with an arrow) bent inwards so it actually punctured the waterline.
IMO, that would be an exceptionally rare situation, and it is also completely avoidable. When you tighten a worm drive style clamp, the slack / extra length of clamp goes on the outside of the clamp. The inside portion is fixed and does not move.

So, if you check to make sure the clamp doesn't have anything bent inwards before you put it on the waterline, then there is no risk of causing a puncture.

I've used water for years now, and the only style of clamp I trust is worm drive. Second best are the metal crimp style, but those are single use and need to be cut off.

Zip ties are good if you want to fry some electronics due to a leak.

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Old 12-19-09, 10:49 AM   #5
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xtreeme

yep your first choice is the sprung type ive had mixed experience with.

the lugs fracture eventually and some the chrome can flake off.

but if made from high quality materials there a good design.

hose wall thickness becomes more of a concern with the sprung type ive found.

carnt see the first link... but it could be some T3 server error fun for me at the moment.
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Old 12-19-09, 12:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
IMO, that would be an exceptionally rare situation, and it is also completely avoidable. When you tighten a worm drive style clamp, the slack / extra length of clamp goes on the outside of the clamp. The inside portion is fixed and does not move.
So, if you check to make sure the clamp doesn't have anything bent inwards before you put it on the waterline, then there is no risk of causing a puncture.

I've used water for years now, and the only style of clamp I trust is worm drive. Second best are the metal crimp style, but those are single use and need to be cut off.
I have seen the same happened at with airlines at work too, and is one of the reasons that wormclamps are forbidden to use on anything else than waterhoses wit a maximum pressure of 6 bar.
I have no problems with them, but I think they are big and ugly looking and anyone that cares a little bit about looks will probably avoid them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
Zip ties are good if you want to fry some electronics due to a leak.






The picture above is ThermalTakes first version of BigWater - it is modified so the flow enters in the middle of the coolingblock and the compression fittings is returns.
Guess what - this system have been running 24/7 for five years with the two zip-ties you can see on the picture.


Did you notice that Jeffery_Paul was new in the game ? what was wrong warning him against a scenario I have seen several times ? But then again I work with stuff like this - I don't "only play" with it in my WC setups.....

Last edited by xtreeme; 12-19-09 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 12-19-09, 12:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyBubblehead View Post
xtreeme

yep your first choice is the sprung type ive had mixed experience with.

the lugs fracture eventually and some the chrome can flake off.

but if made from high quality materials there a good design.

hose wall thickness becomes more of a concern with the sprung type ive found.

carnt see the first link... but it could be some T3 server error fun for me at the moment.
here is direct link to the first picture @ http://i50.tinypic.com/288ck5v.jpg

I am very pleased with the primochill "spring type" - the first ones I had were no-name, I bought some 50 of the first ones I had, so I had them for many years. I kept them in a toolshed that is close to my house - and they actually started to corrode

Anyhow I find this type perfect to use with bitspower rotary connectors, easy to rotate the connector to hide most of the clamp behind the waterlines. And the system looks a bit more tidy...
Worm type gives me the creeps, big bulky and ugly... --- doublejack will probably go bananas now
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Old 12-19-09, 01:06 PM   #8
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I use worm clamps. No biggie. Mine are secure. Mine are better than zips or the plastic herbies and need no pliers to squeeze.

The ones I use are fine and it's what I recommend. To each their own folks. Lets not get carried away, it's only my stuff I need to worry about.

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Old 12-19-09, 01:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conumdrum View Post
To each their own folks. Lets not get carried away, it's only my stuff I need to worry about.


I tell you a secret - I've been testing my rebuild in all kinds of configurations - the last days with two Swiftech MCP655's in series agains a higly restrictive Swiftech XT (siliconemodified) with bp connectors all the way. Without a single hoseclamp in the loop...

With the proper barbs/hoses even zip-ties looks to be "overkill" - or at least more than enough... I think it's just a old habit that keeps me using clamps at all. I think better safe than sorry fits here too
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Old 12-19-09, 01:40 PM   #10
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I personnally love the Swiftech clamp. Never had a fail in 3yrs. + they are black and my tubing is black !



I have 2 Black worm style on the Block.




Never had a leak.

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Old 12-19-09, 02:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreeme View Post
My second choice is actually zip-ties - two ties on the coupling with the lock 180 degrees of each other - works like a dream and are cheap too.
I've never thought about using zip-ties, but you're right, in theory they should work beautifully. I'm happy you've actually used it too, cause that means it works in actuality too! Thank goodness for making water cooling cheaper, and just as effective!
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Old 12-19-09, 05:26 PM   #12
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i go with gear clamps and mostly herbie ones as they haven't failed on me.

while i dislike zip ties the same can be said about the herbies so i guess what Conumdrum said says it all.

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Old 12-19-09, 05:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn-Inc View Post
i go with gear clamps and mostly herbie ones as they haven't failed on me.

while i dislike zip ties the same can be said about the herbies so i guess what Conumdrum said says it all.
I dislike that type since a clean looking system is of importance to me, I will choose zip-ties anyday over worm wheelies

And - we are talking of real low pressures, correct size waterline on correct size barbs hardly need any fasteners at all.
Two zip-ties on the barb will do - as long as they are not overtightened - period.

What one like or not like has nothing to do with the fact that zip-ties are up to the job... but take it as a bonus that you don't need bulky worm-wheelies
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Old 12-19-09, 07:10 PM Thread Starter   #14
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I am going to do a tear down rebuild of my loop soon to tidy up the excess tubing and remount my pump and res in different spots for a cleaner look, so I will probably replace the clamps when I do that. For now I took the zip tie method to hold the tubing tight until I can get around to replacing it properly.

I really don't like using zip ties like this, but you guys say it works so I am willing to trust in your advice.

Thanks guys

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Old 12-19-09, 07:39 PM   #15
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I use worm drives in my loop. Never seen one that could cut into a line such that you describe. I've also used herbie clamps. I prefer the worm drives b/c they're more secure, but there usually isn't anything wrong with the herbies. Sounds like you got a bum clamp Jeffrey.

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Old 12-19-09, 07:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffery_Paul View Post
I am going to do a tear down rebuild of my loop soon to tidy up the excess tubing and remount my pump and res in different spots for a cleaner look, so I will probably replace the clamps when I do that. For now I took the zip tie method to hold the tubing tight until I can get around to replacing it properly.

I really don't like using zip ties like this, but you guys say it works so I am willing to trust in your advice.

Thanks guys

You'll be ok for years to come as long as you use two ties with the lock 180 degrees of each other and don't overtight them.
But it is of course important that you feel comfortable using zip-ties ; so if you still feel insecure slap on three - four - five for that matter if it makes you feel safer. It is still cheap moneywise.

Cut of the ends and enjoy the look of tidyness !
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Old 12-19-09, 08:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hokiealumnus View Post
I use worm drives in my loop. Never seen one that could cut into a line such that you describe. I've also used herbie clamps. I prefer the worm drives b/c they're more secure, but there usually isn't anything wrong with the herbies. Sounds like you got a bum clamp Jeffrey.
Well I work as a maintenance engineer on a offshore plattform, so I have seen it happen there as well as in my "hobby" - watercooling.

10000 psi high pressure couplings would be even more secure than worm clamps - where do the "security end " ?? at 15000 psi ??
You guys are overdoing it big time - fine by me, but don't tell me that zip-ties don't work, because I know they do.

We are talking of pressures around abs. max. 4 bar in a watercooling system - you guys using clamps that are approved to 12 bars (not offshore they are) ??

Try this - put on a correct sized waterline on a barb - strap on two zip-ties and then try to pull the waterline off ???

.................................................. .................................................. ........................
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Old 12-19-09, 08:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by xtreeme View Post
My second choice is actually zip-ties - two ties on the coupling with the lock 180 degrees of each other - works like a dream and are cheap too. Zip-ties with the same color as the hoses make them always invisible - so it looks neat and tidy too
Just don't overtight them....
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreeme View Post
I dislike that type since a clean looking system is of importance to me, I will choose zip-ties anyday over worm wheelies

And - we are talking of real low pressures, correct size waterline on correct size barbs hardly need any fasteners at all.
Two zip-ties on the barb will do - as long as they are not overtightened - period.

What one like or not like has nothing to do with the fact that zip-ties are up to the job... but take it as a bonus that you don't need bulky worm-wheelies
Controversial topic. I'm another believer that wc systems are subjected to low pressures and hence, zip ties tightened with pliers on oversized barbs are sufficient to prevent leaks. WC systems do have pressure built up overtime so it increases the risk of a tube "popping" off the barb after a year or 2. A simple solution is to allow this pressure to be relased by not tightening the res/t-line hole. Untightened plug is prefered over no plug because it prevents large objects from entering the loop.

My wc system is an external one. The pump, rad and res are outside the case and away from the PC. For these components, I do not have any clamps/zipties to secure the tubes. The 7/16" ID tubes are secured only by an oversized bitspower barb. For the blocks, they are secured by 1 zip tie fastened by pliers. No leaks whatsoever for almost 2 years. I recently cleaned by loop and the tubes are still extremely hard to remove. This shows that the tubes still retain their "grip" over the barb.

Disclaimer: This is the risk I take for not securing the tubes using metal clamps. I hold no responsibility should your system leak due to a clampless system.

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Old 12-19-09, 08:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreeme View Post
Well I work as a maintenance engineer on a offshore plattform, so I have seen it happen there as well as in my "hobby" - watercooling.

10000 psi high pressure couplings would be even more secure than worm clamps - where do the "security end " ?? at 15000 psi ??
You guys are overdoing it big time - fine by me, but don't tell me that zip-ties don't work, because I know they do.

We are talking of pressures around abs. max. 4 bar in a watercooling system - you guys using clamps that are approved to 12 bars (not offshore they are) ??

Try this - put on a correct sized waterline on a barb - strap on two zip-ties and then try to pull the waterline off ???

.................................................. .................................................. ........................
Did I say the words zip tie somewhere in my post that I missed?

I use 7/16" ID tubing on 1/2" barbs. When I changed my CPU block last night, I had to cut it off with a razor. That doesn't mean I'm not going to put clamps on there. We're using water in a computer. Even if there is slim to zero chance of a leak, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

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Last edited by hokiealumnus; 12-19-09 at 08:35 PM. Reason: Inserted the post I was replying to.
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Old 12-19-09, 08:47 PM   #20
xtreeme
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Controversial topic. I'm another believer that wc systems are subjected to low pressures and hence, zip ties tightened with pliers on oversized barbs are sufficient to prevent leaks. WC systems do have pressure built up overtime so it increases the risk of a tube "popping" off the barb after a year or 2. A simple solution is to allow this pressure to be relased by not tightening the res/t-line hole. Untightened plug is prefered over no plug because it prevents large objects from entering the loop.

My wc system is an external one. The pump, rad and res are outside the case and away from the PC. For these components, I do not have any clamps/zipties to secure the tubes. The 7/16" ID tubes are secured only by an oversized bitspower barb. For the blocks, they are secured by 1 zip tie fastened by pliers. No leaks whatsoever for almost 2 years. I recently cleaned by loop and the tubes are still extremely hard to remove. This shows that the tubes still retain their "grip" over the barb.

Disclaimer: This is the risk I take for not securing the tubes using metal clamps. I hold no responsibility should your system leak due to a clampless system.
I empty, flush and refill my systems when they have been running for ~6 - 9 months... I belive the majority do the same
In 2002 (same year as xp came anyway - think it was late 2002...) I started using 1/2" waterlines - on selfmade barbs, homemade blocks aso. and I used zip-ties - and never have had an mishap.

The BigWater kit was bought solely because I wanted to show that TT did **** on their leg after a longer "quarrel" with their r&d department. A lot of people did the same mod and could verify my results. And I kinda "forgot" that system since I used it as a homeserver - and now it has been running for five years with zip-ties (abit nf7S mb .. loved it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hokiealumnus View Post
Did I say the words zip tie somewhere in my post that I missed?

I use 7/16" ID tubing on 1/2" barbs. When I changed my CPU block last night, I had to cut it off with a razor. That doesn't mean I'm not going to put clamps on there. We're using water in a computer. Even if there is slim to zero chance of a leak, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
No you didn't....I kinda read between the lines

So why do you overdo it instead using a elegant solution that makes your innards look better ?

fancy my new t-shirt ??

Last edited by xtreeme; 12-19-09 at 09:00 PM.
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