New to water, might be drowning!

Lacerna Nebulae · Dec 28, 2009

Salaam Alaykoum!

T3h n00bl33t has arrived! Prepare to be driven to madness!

I've read a lot of this forum, as well as some others, and wonder if I'm ready to weigh-in and wrassle. The comp is in the sig, and the plan is an Enzotech SCW-REV.A CPU block, two Swiftech MCW60s with complimentary copper RAM sinks, at least one modded Bonnie '77 heater core (maybe two), two Syscooling SC-300 pump/res combos, plus miles of 1/2" with the proper clamps and barbs and miscellaneous.

My hope is to do something inexpensive to my existing system. I care not for replacing my cards or processor, just that they are properly cooled. This is mostly meant for temperature reduction as most of my games play well with my current system. I may wish to overclock someday soon, but that'll be on a different paycheck.

Any suggestions? (Aside from "Yeah! Uh... stop being a jackass!")

PS: I also have access to much copper tubing and plexiglass, so I can DIY some rads and reservoirs. I even had an idea to make a large res that has a copper tube(s) that passes the heated water through it to utilize the cooling power of the water contained therein.

Spawn-Inc · Dec 28, 2009

Welcome!

looks to be a decent budget build, good block for flow.

i will how ever HIGHLY recommend you grab 1 Swiftech MCP655 OR Swiftech MCP355 with an aftermarket top.

one of those pumps will easily handle what your asking and last a long time. i have seen those pumps before, but never seen one tested or used by anyone here or a few other places.

Pumps
Swiftech MCP355 with XSPC Acrylic Reservoir for Laing DDC or EK-DDC X-Top Rev 2

Swiftech MCP655 Vario - adjustable speed and 1 speed faster then the basic
Swiftech MCP655 Basic - is equal to the vario on setting 4.

and of course the links to the guides for new comers

http://overclockerstech.com/index.p...s&catid=40:overclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=88

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/253958-29-watercooling-guide

darkpyro1 · Dec 28, 2009

I'm personally rocking the Enzotech SCW-REV.A And I have to say its a nice waterblock, and it is indeed a nice price.
Secondly, I like the idea of making your own rads, thats really nice, and will cut down on some money! I actually just found a perfect sized (diameter) copper pipe just lying around in my garage a bit ago, and I'm thinking about adding another rad to my system (I don't actually need a third, but my pump can handle it, I think it'll be fun to do, and what can it hurt? [that is, unless I mess something up]).
Looks to be a great potential budget build. Keep reading up on water cooling though, more information is always good, and most of the people that hang out in the water cooling section (and in my experience, all of OCF) are really helpful.

Lacerna Nebulae · Dec 28, 2009

Pipe Dreams

Thanks for the comments thus far! This place is great. I made it here from Tom's, which is also a pretty cool place (a few flamers, but nothing terrible). Everyone seems very kind here.

Anyways, I've checked the two guides you've posted, Spawn. The guide at Tom's is a pretty good list, and is why I made it to this place, but that other guide by Hokie is outstanding (from a n00b-g00b point of view). I've noticed through all of my travels that Swiftech seems to own the in-the-know market, but I haven't seen too many reviews on other items.

It seems like everyone either has the Swiftech 655 or the 355. I understand the concern over reliability, but I'd about like to step out of the comfort zone. However, I'm rethinking the SC-300's. The combined power breaks down to 10 Lit./PM or 2.5 Gal./PM. I really would just like to try something less expensive... and maybe come back with good savings for the folks here!

How about my reservoir idea? Does anyone think that running a pipe or two of copper through the reservoir before dumping into it might help cool better?

Choukranleki!

Spawn-Inc · Dec 28, 2009

i can't picture what you mean for the res. the 2 pipes that run through it are they part of a loop or do you plan to cool one loop with another?

darkpyro1 · Dec 28, 2009

If you could draw a picture of what it might look like, I think it'd be helpful. I was corrected once for saying the more room, the more time to cool, so now I'm going to tell you the more surface area that is room temp, the closer to room temp the coolant. So assuming your water would normally be above room temp (it probably will be) the extra copper would help at least a little (though that "little" might be completely insignificant).

But please, draw us a picture of what it will probably look like. We'll be able to be of much more help! By the way, I never ended up welcoming you.

Welcome to OCF! :welcome:

BobbyBubblehead · Dec 28, 2009

to the Forums and upon you be peace

your opening line made me think for a second sausage what? or a turkish hello? (bulgarian) #Laughs#
neither... excuse my ignorance

Lacerna Nebulae · Dec 28, 2009

My goofy idea

Thanks for all of the help thusfar.

BobbyBubblehead:

I'm learning Arabic, so I like to incorporate some of it in my everyday life. It makes me look smart, even though I can barely form sentences in Arabic. They do use that greeting in Turkey, by the way.

Darkpyro and Spawn:

Here be the imaginary... er... magery... whatever.

I will have a home made radiator that utilizes about 4 feet of copper. If this seems like a bit much, then I would appreciate someone making the case against so much pipe. Anyways, the reservoir will be approximately one gallon, possibly lined with something to keep light out. The pipe shall run at least once through the length of the reservoir, possibly twice, and then exit into the res.

I was also thinking that I would simply pass the tube(s) through the res so I can use it as a second "radiator" on the loop. Perhaps the pump would go to the CPU, hit this reseradiatoramajig, come back in for the GPUs, then enter the mega radiator before hitting the jigamareservoir-gallon size to start the eternal journey again. The idea is that, if I have plenty of water for the system, the water that is awaiting departure can dissipate some of the heat.

If none of it make sense, please be kind. I am a fragile genius given to bouts of madness. :temper:

*lol*

Spawn-Inc · Dec 28, 2009

thats not going to do anything for cooling, having alot of water will only help until you reach equilibrium you will not benefit from the extra water after that. it will take about 10-15 minutes for your average loop to hit that point.

the only thing you could do is have the same idea but don't incorporate the res into the loop, use it as an ice bucket. when you want to bench dump some ice and water into it and have some fun.

in regards to your 4 foot rad is it just going to be copper pipe? or are you going to add fins? if no fins are added you will not see much improvement if any.

BobbyBubblehead · Dec 28, 2009

well for one you rarely here `thats too much` round here

whats effective is surface area to dissapate the heat, a greater volume of liquid will just take longer to equalise to the effects of its constant heat load and in your senario reveal how effective this home made setup is.

its not easy for me to visualise because ive no idea first hand of the parts you have.

neonblingbling · Dec 28, 2009

Running the copper pipe in your reservoir is only going to cause potential problems with zero benefit (unless it looks cool or something

).

Problem 1: It adds two holes to your reservoir where potential leaks could form. Not good.
Problem 2: It adds length to your loop. Length, as in resistance. Granted, a straight section of tubing is going to have less resistance than a similar length section of curved tubing, but it still extra resistance. More resistance = less flow.

BobbyBubblehead · Dec 28, 2009

its a fair call

at one point of trying to understand your loop I just thought why not just get 20ft of copper bury it and get a good strong pump.

if youve loads of copper pipe available.

diggrr - could explain that one to you because I recall him saying hes done it before

it just crossed my mind at one point anyhow :shrug:

Lacerna Nebulae · Dec 29, 2009

Spawn:

**The amount of water isn't actually important to the overall cooling.** <-- [What I meant to say is that I'm not as worried about more water for cooling as I am more water so the pipe can be cooled.] Instead, I figure that the pipe will move somewhat down the center of the reservoir, and the extra water will act as a cooler for that pipe. I think I'm getting the point of equilibrium, which means that running the pipe as the picture shows would be pointless. So, instead, I was thinking of running it in a way that turns it into a midway radiator. In other words, yank the "Toob from Radiator" and plug it into the exit from the CPU block. THEN, unplug the "Toob from Pipe to Reservoir" and connect it to the first entrance to the GPU blocks.

On to the pipe. I have two 2' pieces that I plan on curving into a pair of 1'-long U's. I'm going to take copper wire and loop it around the pipe, then work out a criss-cross, cage design. The wire will loop, angle up-and-over to the other side, loop, then come back. It'll be like a bunch of Xs. I may go back and wrap big loops around both sides of the U, across the middle of the Xs, so as to make a sideways asterisk *. Add to this that I will attach fans.... somehow. I have a nagging feeling that only real-life pictures will do this justice, because I can't possibly draw a decent diagram of this.

I'm sure I sound like a kid with crayons trying to diagram the inner workings of a CPU. I apologize, as I am usually not good at describing my ideas. Trust, though, that when all jackassary is put aside, I am a polymath and I'll understand nearly anything you put in front of me... just be sure to put it in front of me. I've searched the depths of this forum, but its catacombs are great and take hours of searching to find applicalbe scenarios. I know where the guides are, and I love them. I'm just probably thinking too far out of the box with this idea.

BobbyBubble:

I have 4' of L-type copper pipe (unfortunately it's 3/8 in order to work with the tubing). I have over 25' of copper wire, probably closer to 50'. I have ten feet of 1/2" toob, probably vinyl, probably no the right stuff. I have more plexi than should be legal. I also have access to loads of used m-type copper, but it's mostly 1/4" or 3/4".

Also, prolonging equilibrium is not my aim. Instead, I had figured that there was some way to use water-in-waiting to add effectiveness to the system. After much thinking, it's probably a crummy idea.

Still, I believe the time we stop imagining and start thinking "somebody thought of that already," we steal opportunity from ourselves.

BobbyBubblehead · Dec 29, 2009

with the liquid volume it just doesnt work like that in a closed system.... in a fishtank eg with a realtive static body the only way to loose heat is to turn a large surface area over and expose the constantly renewed surface tension to the cooler air in order to exchange.... more suraface area and turnover(circulation in a tank senario) the more the effectiveness.

edit: maybe with plexi glass everywhere you could be the guy for some cascade bong cooler.... my vauge wild card #Chuckles#

Spawn-Inc · Dec 29, 2009

Lacerna Nebulae said:
Spawn:

**The amount of water isn't actually important to the overall cooling.** <-- [What I meant to say is that I'm not as worried about more water for cooling as I am more water so the pipe can be cooled.] Instead, I figure that the pipe will move somewhat down the center of the reservoir, and the extra water will act as a cooler for that pipe. I think I'm getting the point of equilibrium, which means that running the pipe as the picture shows would be pointless. So, instead, I was thinking of running it in a way that turns it into a midway radiator. In other words, yank the "Toob from Radiator" and plug it into the exit from the CPU block. THEN, unplug the "Toob from Pipe to Reservoir" and connect it to the first entrance to the GPU blocks.

On to the pipe. I have two 2' pieces that I plan on curving into a pair of 1'-long U's. I'm going to take copper wire and loop it around the pipe, then work out a criss-cross, cage design. The wire will loop, angle up-and-over to the other side, loop, then come back. It'll be like a bunch of Xs. I may go back and wrap big loops around both sides of the U, across the middle of the Xs, so as to make a sideways asterisk *. Add to this that I will attach fans.... somehow. I have a nagging feeling that only real-life pictures will do this justice, because I can't possibly draw a decent diagram of this.

I'm sure I sound like a kid with crayons trying to diagram the inner workings of a CPU. I apologize, as I am usually not good at describing my ideas. Trust, though, that when all jackassary is put aside, I am a polymath and I'll understand nearly anything you put in front of me... just be sure to put it in front of me. I've searched the depths of this forum, but its catacombs are great and take hours of searching to find applicalbe scenarios. I know where the guides are, and I love them. I'm just probably thinking too far out of the box with this idea.

BobbyBubble:

I have 4' of L-type copper pipe (unfortunately it's 3/8 in order to work with the tubing). I have over 25' of copper wire, probably closer to 50'. I have ten feet of 1/2" toob, probably vinyl, probably no the right stuff. I have more plexi than should be legal. I also have access to loads of used m-type copper, but it's mostly 1/4" or 3/4".

Also, prolonging equilibrium is not my aim. Instead, I had figured that there was some way to use water-in-waiting to add effectiveness to the system. After much thinking, it's probably a crummy idea.

Still, I believe the time we stop imagining and start thinking "somebody thought of that already," we steal opportunity from ourselves.

i understand exactly what you mean about the wiring around the tubing. and while it will help, it's not going to be as good as you think. by all means try it if your set on doing it, don't let me stop you, i'm just saying be prepared for it to not be the greatest.

even if you piped you loop with copper lines instead of pvc tubing it wouldn't help to much. it has been done, and is rarely done. it looks great when properly done. here is the most recent one i can think of.

well i can't find it for the life of me.

Lacerna Nebulae · Dec 29, 2009

Don't forget, folks, that I AM going to utilize fans for this. The L-type could be left straight (two 2' lines) and I could attach 5 120s to them. I could also return half of my wire (already used the other half to start training my bonsai) and purchase a thin copper sheet to create the fins. In fact, I could return the over-priced L-type and get me 5' of M-type and Dremel away. I have no issue with fans.... in fact, my Nine Hundred is loaded with them. I don't even care about noise. My aim now is to MacGuyver this sucker as much as possible, but still cool fairly well. I won't screw with making my own blocks... for now. I will probably even get the Swiftech 655 pump.

darkpyro1 · Dec 29, 2009

As the others have said, you will probably hit the point where doing more just isn't worth the time, money, or effort. Although I must say, imagining this system, it is a beauty. I'm imagining kind of a steampunk thing going on, but not even really that. I think, while it won't cool as effectively as one might think, it will look stylin' in the process. And I would expect decently low temps from it (nothing amazing, but nothing to sneeze at either).

The fans will help a little bit, but again, they will only cool to room temp (RT), and the closer you get to RT the harder is is to get to RT. So the fans, again will help, but they will only help so much.

Fins would be nice things to add onto your DIY Rads, and the copper wiring will help that also, but only so much.

I really liked the idea of putting some copper piping under ground! I know it would be kind of impractical, and hard to do, but I've never even thought about that, and in theory, its a really awesome idea. It would definitely require a decent amount of copper tubing to do much good, but if you could manage to get even 3' of piping below the 6' mark (I'm pretty sure it's between 4' and 6' down that the ground temp stays around 50 F year 'round), its cold, and that would help. 6' underground is much below room temp.

Thinking more about it though, I'm not sure it would drop temps really that much. Maybe a couple degrees (Celsius) off your CPU and GPU, but probably not much more than a couple. So, in conclusion, underground water cooling: awesome idea, might not be worth the effort. If someone can correct me though, I'd love to hear how much it would actually help. I'm just not sure how to do the math. All my figures are basically moderately educated guesses.

Lacerna Nebulae · Dec 29, 2009

Yeah.... I don't own the ground around me, so I'm sure I'd be in trouble if I played that game. I've heard of burying pipes and that it can be highly effective, but it's not my bag, or my call. I have to stay above ground.

Also, I'm not doing any of this to dip my water below room temps.... that's just silly! 70 F (21 C) would be insanely hard to do as a constant, so 69 F is just too silly, which means something if someone as silly as myself is saying it. If 90 F/32 C for core temps was achievable, I'd be pretty happy. I wouldn't be all that disappointed if 100/38 core is where I hit, particularly if I decide OC, because my current core temps (no overclock) are hitting around 70C or so under load. If I can drop that, pre-OC, then I'll be clicking my heels.

So everyone knows, my CPU is that evil 125-watt monster, putting me near the top of Greenpeace's hit list. It takes a bit more baby seal blubber to run those 90nm chips. I almost can't look 'em in the eye when I club 'em. Someday my tortured soul will lead me to that faux-dual-core-that's-really-four 3.1 Ghz that only hits 80 watts... for the children, not the heat drop or the cheap price.

BobbyBubblehead · Dec 29, 2009

Greenpeace's hit list - #Laughs# not heard that one before, thats funny.... I`ll try and remember #Chuckles#

no bury action then... ay well, just a wild card.
I do own a bit of the ground around me but its either class1 or 2 quake zone so I guess its doable but I need a bigger hole to make sure the rocks and boulders are clear maybe... its not exactly top of my to do list.

darkpyro1 · Dec 30, 2009

Yah, again, I realize burying pipes to cool would be WAY more effort than it would be worth.

And just for reference, I've got 1 single rad, and 1 double, cooling a 3.4 GHz Phenom, and an AMD 785G NB and my CPU load temps run on average around 40 C. My Idle temps are usually around 28 C. So idle it shouldn't be too hard to hit your 32 C shouldn't be too much of a problem. Just make sure you've got good air flow in your case and you should be doing great!

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