Wireless home networking

I can get my son's netbook to connect to view the shared files folder on my home pc if I connect it to the router which the home pc uses via ethernet cable. The netbook is wireless but the home pc is not. Both are running XP and have the same workgroup name.

However, the netbook cannot connect wirelessly. Originally the problem was with mcafee as it wasn't even letting the netbook see the home pc on the network when it wasn't connected with ethernet. However, I recently uninstalled mcafee and installed kaspersky and now the netbook can open the home pc and see all the folders, but is then not able to open the shared files folder. It says that "you might not have permission". I cannot understand why it works with ethernet cable but not without. I thought it might be something to do with the router, but this allows internet connection with no problems and I have set up the netbook as a wireless device on the router.

Please can someone help me unravel this mystery?

Many thanks in advance for any help.

There might be an option in your security suite that allows you to set trusted networks/network interface. You can try disabling your security software to see if this is the problem.

You should also verify IP connectivity. Try pinging from both computers and by both the hostname and the IP address and verify that you have network connectivity.

In the computer that has the shared files, go to the advanced sharing settings and turn OFF password protected sharing.

TempliNocturnus said:

There might be an option in your security suite that allows you to set trusted networks/network interface. You can try disabling your security software to see if this is the problem.

You should also verify IP connectivity. Try pinging from both computers and by both the hostname and the IP address and verify that you have network connectivity.

Click to expand...

Thank you, how do I do this please?

thehacker010 said:

In the computer that has the shared files, go to the advanced sharing settings and turn OFF password protected sharing.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply - please could you tell me where to find the advanced sharing settings please?

mamazaac said:

Thank you, how do I do this please?

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I'm not familiar with Kaspersky, so you're kinda on your own there. Browse around in the configuration menus and look for something that says Firewall, or trusted interfaces/connections.

You can ping the computers by using the command prompt. On each computer, click start-run type cmd to open the command prompt. type ipconfig to view the IP address for each computer. type ping x.x.x.x to ping the other computer, or type ping computername to ping by host name. Either way, the desired result should be four replies from the IP address of the host you pinged. If pings are not going through, then chances are nothing else will.

I have no idea what version of Windows you are using. If you have Vista/W7, right-click the network icon in your taskbar and click "Open Network and Sharing Center." On the left, there should be an option that says, "Change advanced sharing settings." Turn on network discovery and turn off password protection.

thehacker010 said:

I have no idea what version of Windows you are using. If you have Vista/W7, right-click the network icon in your taskbar and click "Open Network and Sharing Center." On the left, there should be an option that says, "Change advanced sharing settings." Turn on network discovery and turn off password protection.

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Sorry, should have said am using XP on both

TempliNocturnus said:

You can ping the computers by using the command prompt. On each computer, click start-run type cmd to open the command prompt. type ipconfig to view the IP address for each computer. type ping x.x.x.x to ping the other computer, or type ping computername to ping by host name. Either way, the desired result should be four replies from the IP address of the host you pinged. If pings are not going through, then chances are nothing else will.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply, I think you may be onto something here. I have now had a chance to test this and they are pinging each other with no problems when using the ip addresses, but when I use the host name the netbook pings the home pc ok, but the home pc just gets "request timed out" come up 4 times instead of the replies I got using ip addresses.

So, if this is the problem, what is the solution please?

mamazaac said:

Thank you for your reply, I think you may be onto something here. I have now had a chance to test this and they are pinging each other with no problems when using the ip addresses, but when I use the host name the netbook pings the home pc ok, but the home pc just gets "request timed out" come up 4 times instead of the replies I got using ip addresses.

So, if this is the problem, what is the solution please?

Click to expand...

This is probably because NetBIOS traffic is being blocked. First, on both computers, check to see if the TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper service is running:
Start -> Run -> type compmgmt.msc and hit "Enter" -> "Services and Applications" -> "Services". Locate the "TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper" and verify it's Startup Type is set to "Automatic" and that it is running.

If the NetBIOS service is running on both machines, the next thing to do is to disable any and all security software installed and running, then try pinging by hostname. While you're still in the Services snap-in, you may want to stop the "Windows Firewall and Internet Connection Sharing" service, if it's running, and perhaps set it's startup type to disabled if you are running third-party firewall software. If you receive replies, then we'll have to work on configuring your firewall to allow that protocol (or you can just connect by IP addresses).

TempliNocturnus said:

This is probably because NetBIOS traffic is being blocked. First, on both computers, check to see if the TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper service is running:
Start -> Run -> type compmgmt.msc and hit "Enter" -> "Services and Applications" -> "Services". Locate the "TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper" and verify it's Startup Type is set to "Automatic" and that it is running.

If the NetBIOS service is running on both machines, the next thing to do is to disable any and all security software installed and running, then try pinging by hostname. While you're still in the Services snap-in, you may want to stop the "Windows Firewall and Internet Connection Sharing" service, if it's running, and perhaps set it's startup type to disabled if you are running third-party firewall software. If you receive replies, then we'll have to work on configuring your firewall to allow that protocol (or you can just connect by IP addresses).

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I don't believe this! Disabled firewalls and did what you said. Now I can ping the netbook successfully by either hostname or ip address. However, now when the netbook pings the home pc by hostname, that one gets request timed out, so the opposite to before. My son's netbook came with bullguard installed which I intend to get rid soon and if I disable the firewall on that so that windows firewall kicks in, I can still successfully ping the netbook by hostname. However, even when putting the home pc security back to how it was, the netbook can still no longer ping the pc by hostname. (Presumably, by turning off the firewall I have disabled some setting it had before which let the netbook ping it, which doesn't automatically go back on). It still works using ip address though, so think may have to go with your suggestion about connecting by ip address. Or I could uninstall kaspersky altogether and see if it will reply to a ping by hostname then, before reinstalling it in the hope that the settings I had before on it will be restored. What do you think?

Hm, that's a bit squirrelly...

Maybe we should re-cap and list all the security software installed on both computers.
It's pretty clear now that this is an issue with your firewall/security software, however the solution that will also keep your machines protected involves reconfiguring the security software.

TempliNocturnus said:

Hm, that's a bit squirrelly...

Maybe we should re-cap and list all the security software installed on both computers.
It's pretty clear now that this is an issue with your firewall/security software, however the solution that will also keep your machines protected involves reconfiguring the security software.

Click to expand...

If you think that's squirrelly, wait til you hear what's happened now! It seemed to me that disabling the bullguard firewall so just windows firewall was active did the trick about allowing the home pc to ping the netbook by hostname so I left that disabled. It was then clear that kaspersky had started to block the ping coming from the netbook when I turned it back on. I only just installed kas last weekend so I did a system restore to last friday and kas was gone, so just windows firewall was active. This did allow the netbook to ping the home pc by hostname, but unfortunately this wasn't the answer as the netbook could still not open the shared folder. It might be worth saying at this point that my husband brought home his work laptop and was able to open the shared folder with no probs so it looks to me as though there must be a setting on the netbook preventing it accessing the shared folder on the home pc, rather than the home pc preventing access. Now the squirrelly bit - when I went to restore my pc back to now to get kaspersky back, I found that my system restore has disappeared! All that will open is a blank window when I click system restore. Also nothing happens when I click on Help and Support in the start menu and when I click on search a window opens with the dog in it but no place to put in what you are searching for. Tried to open sys res both thro control panel and the accessories menu but to no avail. How on earth did this happen? My browser opens automatically when the pc restarts so am running spybot as we speak in case a virus snuck in during the few seconds it was open, but don't think it can be this as windows firewall was on. I also tried restarting the pc but this didn't make any difference. HHHHHEEEELLLLPPP!!

So basically this is the story so far:
work laptop can access home pc
netbook cannot access home pc
home pc cannot access netbook

On the netbook, check to see if the Guest account is enabled. Do this by:
Click start -> Run; type compmgmt.msc and click OK
Expand the "Local users and Groups" line and open the "Users" folder.
You should see an account called "Guest" and when you double click it, there should NOT be a check in the "Account is disabled" box. If there is, then uncheck that box and you should be able to access the machines.

Also too, try accessing machines by going to Start -> Run and typing \\computername and clicking OK. You may also replace the computer name with the IP address.

As for your System Restore, I don't use it so I don't know if I can help you. I don't think restoring your computer to a previous restore point would delete the restore points made after the one that it was restored to, but I could be wrong. Like I said, I don't use System Restore.. I think it's useless anyways. You get a virus, there's a good chance it will infect your Restore Points.

TempliNocturnus said:

So basically this is the story so far:
work laptop can access home pc
netbook cannot access home pc
home pc cannot access netbook

On the netbook, check to see if the Guest account is enabled. Do this by:
Click start -> Run; type compmgmt.msc and click OK
Expand the "Local users and Groups" line and open the "Users" folder.
You should see an account called "Guest" and when you double click it, there should NOT be a check in the "Account is disabled" box. If there is, then uncheck that box and you should be able to access the machines.

Also too, try accessing machines by going to Start -> Run and typing \\computername and clicking OK. You may also replace the computer name with the IP address.

Click to expand...

Ok, you were right with the first two assumptions but the home pc can access the netbook without any problems. The netbook does not have a 'local users and groups' line, so I am unable to check that with regard to the guest account. The guest account for the home pc does not have a check in the 'account is disabled' box.

typing \\homepcname in the run box gets the netbook straight into the home pc folder so the shared docs folder can be seen, but the shared docs folder can still not be opened.

One thing that occurred to me is that when my husband logs in from his laptop, he just double clicks workgroup computers and is able to select the home pc, see the shared docs folder and open it. With the netbook, after clicking on the home pc from the workgroup computers folder, my son has to sign in using my username and password (as I have administrator privileges). I am wondering whether this is something to do with our problem, as once he signs in he can see the shared docs folder, but when he tries to open it is told he might not have permission to use the network resource. I have made sure on the home pc though that everyone has permission for everything so don't know why this should be when he is logging in as me. It seems odd that my husband does not have to sign in at any point and does have free access to the home network - something must be set up differently on my son's netbook to make him have to sign in.

Oh, and another thought, on the home pc under the groups section of local users/groups my son is a member of users only - should he be a member of the guest group too? Or any other group?

As ever, your advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ok, I can see that XP Home is being used on your sons netbook and that XP Pro is used on your home PC, and likely on the work laptop as well.

I'd like you to check a setting in the local security policy:
Click Start -> Run: type secpol.msc and click OK
Expand Local Policies -> Security Options
In Security Options, look for the object: "Network access: Sharing and security model for local accounts"
Let me know if this is set to "Classic".

I'd also like to know what happens when you type \\netbook from the homepc.

The explanation I have so far is that your son is being prompted for credentials because the Guest account on his computer is disabled (by default) and you have Classic sharing set in your computers local sec policy (if it was set to "Guest only", he would receive and access denied message instead of a prompt to enter credentials).

As for why your son still receives the lack of permissions message after authenticating with your credentials, I'm not sure. If your son was to type \\homepc\c$ in the run prompt, then is prompted for credentials, enters your logon and password, is he able to traverse the entire c drive of the homepc? If he is, then there's no reason he would receive any permissions errors when accessing the homepc the other way.

You have a couple options:
1) You can try to enable the Guest account on the netbook. I've never really worked with XP Home, therefore I don't know many of the work arounds to do things that are otherwise simple in XP Pro, but I do know many things are done in safe mode on XP home. Try booting into safe mode and going to computer management and seeing if the Local Users and Accounts is present then. If it's not, you'll probably have to go into the Control Panel and go to the Users option in there.

2) Authenticate Classically. This is the method I, as an IT professional, am use to in large enterprise networks.

To do this, ensure that Local SecPol object I mentioned earlier is set to Classic. Then go into Local Users and Groups and create a user account for each individual you wish to access your computer (you may either disable or leave enabled the Guest account; disabling it will require credentials for everyone wishing to access any shares, unless you use the Local SecPol to allow access to as share anonymously). You said you have an account for your son set up already; your son should also be able to enter his credentials instead of yours to gain access to your shares.

To further set permissions on your shares, go to Shared Folders in Computer Management (it's the one above Local Users and Groups) and then view the Shares sub-object. There, you will be able to see all shared folders on your computer. If you double-click a share then click on the "Share Permissions" tab, you can add/remove users and assign access permissions to each user.

TempliNocturnus said:

Ok, I can see that XP Home is being used on your sons netbook and that XP Pro is used on your home PC, and likely on the work laptop as well.

I'd like you to check a setting in the local security policy:
Click Start -> Run: type secpol.msc and click OK
Expand Local Policies -> Security Options
In Security Options, look for the object: "Network access: Sharing and security model for local accounts"
Let me know if this is set to "Classic".

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right, it is set to 'classic'.

TempliNocturnus said:

I'd also like to know what happens when you type \\netbook from the homepc.

Click to expand...

Go straight into my son's netbook showing his shared folder which I can access but I have always been able to access his shared folder from the home pc anyway.

TempliNocturnus said:

The explanation I have so far is that your son is being prompted for credentials because the Guest account on his computer is disabled (by default) and you have Classic sharing set in your computers local sec policy (if it was set to "Guest only", he would receive and access denied message instead of a prompt to enter credentials).

As for why your son still receives the lack of permissions message after authenticating with your credentials, I'm not sure. If your son was to type \\homepc\c$ in the run prompt, then is prompted for credentials, enters your logon and password, is he able to traverse the entire c drive of the homepc? If he is, then there's no reason he would receive any permissions errors when accessing the homepc the other way.

Click to expand...

No, he cannot access it. The same message comes up as with the shared folder when I type \\homepc\c$ in the run prompt.

You have a couple options:

TempliNocturnus said:

1) You can try to enable the Guest account on the netbook. I've never really worked with XP Home, therefore I don't know many of the work arounds to do things that are otherwise simple in XP Pro, but I do know many things are done in safe mode on XP home. Try booting into safe mode and going to computer management and seeing if the Local Users and Accounts is present then. If it's not, you'll probably have to go into the Control Panel and go to the Users option in there.

Click to expand...

Nothing showing in safe mode, so had to turn on the guest account from the Users option in control panel. Still not able to access shared folder on home pc though.

TempliNocturnus said:

2) Authenticate Classically. This is the method I, as an IT professional, am use to in large enterprise networks.

To do this, ensure that Local SecPol object I mentioned earlier is set to Classic. Then go into Local Users and Groups and create a user account for each individual you wish to access your computer (you may either disable or leave enabled the Guest account; disabling it will require credentials for everyone wishing to access any shares, unless you use the Local SecPol to allow access to as share anonymously). You said you have an account for your son set up already; your son should also be able to enter his credentials instead of yours to gain access to your shares.

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Bother, cannot access this due to the same problem that caused my system restore to disappear. Am working on getting this sorted, so should be able to try this soon. BTW, when I said I had an account for my son set up already, what I mean by this is that he has his own username set up on the home pc which he logs into when he wants to use it. Is this the same thing you mean, or do I need to create a new user for him in respect of his netbook? Didn't do anything to get the work laptop to connect. It was already using the router wirelessly, and just was then able to connect to the network too when I set it up.

TempliNocturnus said:

To further set permissions on your shares, go to Shared Folders in Computer Management (it's the one above Local Users and Groups) and then view the Shares sub-object. There, you will be able to see all shared folders on your computer. If you double-click a share then click on the "Share Permissions" tab, you can add/remove users and assign access permissions to each user.

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I have done this. The username in it already was 'everyone', but I added my son's name. One thing though, I think it has added his username on the home pc as it calls it "hompcname\his name", so I am thinking maybe it is giving him access when he is logged on through his username on the home pc, but probably not through his netbook. However, surely signing in to the network from the netbook with my home pc username and password would overcome this anyway?

I hope the above is of some use in your deliberations. I really appreciate your the time and trouble you are taking to help me and hope it won't cause you much more work.

mamazaac said:

Bother, cannot access this due to the same problem that caused my system restore to disappear. Am working on getting this sorted, so should be able to try this soon. BTW, when I said I had an account for my son set up already, what I mean by this is that he has his own username set up on the home pc which he logs into when he wants to use it. Is this the same thing you mean, or do I need to create a new user for him in respect of his netbook? Didn't do anything to get the work laptop to connect. It was already using the router wirelessly, and just was then able to connect to the network too when I set it up.

Click to expand...

Yes, I meant that you had a user account set up for your son on your homepc. When you were able to access the homepc from the netbook and were prompted for credentials, you said you enter your user name and password, for your account on the homepc, and you were able to just see the shares. If you guys were entered your sons user name and password, for his account on the homepc, you should have had the same result.

However, when you enter credentials to authenticating on a remote machine, you have to enter the the remote computers name and the account on the remote computer in the user name field. For instance, the username field would look like this: HOMEPC\user.name

It might simplify things if you set the sharing and security model on the homepc to Guest only. Then go into the Shares through the Computer Management, and set the Share Permissions for the share you have set up include both the Everyone group, and the Guest account. Have the permission for both include at least read (include change if you want people to be able to add stuff). Let me know what works/doesn't work once you try this.

As you can see, networking with XP Home is a PITA.

TempliNocturnus said:

Yes, I meant that you had a user account set up for your son on your homepc. When you were able to access the homepc from the netbook and were prompted for credentials, you said you enter your user name and password, for your account on the homepc, and you were able to just see the shares. If you guys were entered your sons user name and password, for his account on the homepc, you should have had the same result.

Click to expand...

Yes, we got the same result. When we first started trying to network these machines it wouldn't accept him which is why I tried mine and presumed it was because I was an administrator and he was not. With all the changes we have been making, somewhere along the line we must have enabled this I think.

TempliNocturnus said:

However, when you enter credentials to authenticating on a remote machine, you have to enter the the remote computers name and the account on the remote computer in the user name field. For instance, the username field would look like this: HOMEPC\user.name

Click to expand...

TempliNocturnus said:

It might simplify things if you set the sharing and security model on the homepc to Guest only.

Click to expand...

How do I do this please?

TempliNocturnus said:

Then go into the Shares through the Computer Management, and set the Share Permissions for the share you have set up include both the Everyone group, and the Guest account. Have the permission for both include at least read (include change if you want people to be able to add stuff).

Click to expand...

Done

TempliNocturnus said:

Let me know what works/doesn't work once you try this.

Click to expand...

Nothing different so far as I can see, still need to sign in on netbook to access the network - obviously have yet to set the sharing and security model to guest only, so will see what happens then.

TempliNocturnus said:

As you can see, networking with XP Home is a PITA.

Click to expand...

You got that right

Here's a guide on how to set your sharing and security model to Guest only. Just open that with Internet Explorer. You can click on the pictures to get a closer look at some of the things I've typed. It looks a little difference because I'm running Windows 7, but the context should be the same in XP.

Here is also a guide on how to check the properties of your shared folders, in case you want to verify what you did.

When you set the sharing and security model to Guest only, the Guest account on the homepc will be the only account any remote user can authenticate with, therefore it won't prompt for credentials. This is a fairly simple way for files to be shared on a computer, as it does not require setting up any accounts.

The other way to set it up is through the classic mode; where remote users can authenticate themselves as a user account on your homepc, that is not the Guest account (ie. your admin account). If you want to set it up this way, you should be prompted for credentials whenever you attempt to access a share from another computer.

You said when you'd enter your admin account name in the prompt received when you access your homepc from the netbook, you would receive an access denied message. You're getting this message because your homepc is seeing the account you're using as an account on the netbook, and not on the homepc. To make it see your logon attempt as the account that exists on the homepc, you have to type "homepc\username" in the user name field, then enter your password (homepc is the computer name of the homepc; you can find this out by right-clicking "My Computer" and going to properties).