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Steve Jobs posts "Thoughts on Flash" to apple's website - ripping hard on Adobe

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benbaked

Folding/SETI/Rosetta Team Member
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Steve Jobs posts "Thoughts on Flash" to apple's website - ripping hard on Adobe

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

Thoughts on Flash

Apple has a long relationship with Adobe. In fact, we met Adobe’s founders when they were in their proverbial garage. Apple was their first big customer, adopting their Postscript language for our new Laserwriter printer. Apple invested in Adobe and owned around 20% of the company for many years. The two companies worked closely together to pioneer desktop publishing and there were many good times. Since that golden era, the companies have grown apart. Apple went through its near death experience, and Adobe was drawn to the corporate market with their Acrobat products. Today the two companies still work together to serve their joint creative customers – Mac users buy around half of Adobe’s Creative Suite products – but beyond that there are few joint interests.

I wanted to jot down some of our thoughts on Adobe’s Flash products so that customers and critics may better understand why we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads. Adobe has characterized our decision as being primarily business driven – they say we want to protect our App Store – but in reality it is based on technology issues. Adobe claims that we are a closed system, and that Flash is open, but in fact the opposite is true. Let me explain.

First, there’s “Open”.

Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system.

Apple has many proprietary products too. Though the operating system for the iPhone, iPod and iPad is proprietary, we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open. Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. Apple’s mobile devices all ship with high performance, low power implementations of these open standards. HTML5, the new web standard that has been adopted by Apple, Google and many others, lets web developers create advanced graphics, typography, animations and transitions without relying on third party browser plug-ins (like Flash). HTML5 is completely open and controlled by a standards committee, of which Apple is a member.

Apple even creates open standards for the web. For example, Apple began with a small open source project and created WebKit, a complete open-source HTML5 rendering engine that is the heart of the Safari web browser used in all our products. WebKit has been widely adopted. Google uses it for Android’s browser, Palm uses it, Nokia uses it, and RIM (Blackberry) has announced they will use it too. Almost every smartphone web browser other than Microsoft’s uses WebKit. By making its WebKit technology open, Apple has set the standard for mobile web browsers.

Second, there’s the “full web”.

Adobe has repeatedly said that Apple mobile devices cannot access “the full web” because 75% of video on the web is in Flash. What they don’t say is that almost all this video is also available in a more modern format, H.264, and viewable on iPhones, iPods and iPads. YouTube, with an estimated 40% of the web’s video, shines in an app bundled on all Apple mobile devices, with the iPad offering perhaps the best YouTube discovery and viewing experience ever. Add to this video from Vimeo, Netflix, Facebook, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, ESPN, NPR, Time, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, People, National Geographic, and many, many others. iPhone, iPod and iPad users aren’t missing much video.

Another Adobe claim is that Apple devices cannot play Flash games. This is true. Fortunately, there are over 50,000 games and entertainment titles on the App Store, and many of them are free. There are more games and entertainment titles available for iPhone, iPod and iPad than for any other platform in the world.

Third, there’s reliability, security and performance.

Symantec recently highlighted Flash for having one of the worst security records in 2009. We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash. We have been working with Adobe to fix these problems, but they have persisted for several years now. We don’t want to reduce the reliability and security of our iPhones, iPods and iPads by adding Flash.

In addition, Flash has not performed well on mobile devices. We have routinely asked Adobe to show us Flash performing well on a mobile device, any mobile device, for a few years now. We have never seen it. Adobe publicly said that Flash would ship on a smartphone in early 2009, then the second half of 2009, then the first half of 2010, and now they say the second half of 2010. We think it will eventually ship, but we’re glad we didn’t hold our breath. Who knows how it will perform?

Fourth, there’s battery life.

To achieve long battery life when playing video, mobile devices must decode the video in hardware; decoding it in software uses too much power. Many of the chips used in modern mobile devices contain a decoder called H.264 – an industry standard that is used in every Blu-ray DVD player and has been adopted by Apple, Google (YouTube), Vimeo, Netflix and many other companies.

Although Flash has recently added support for H.264, the video on almost all Flash websites currently requires an older generation decoder that is not implemented in mobile chips and must be run in software. The difference is striking: on an iPhone, for example, H.264 videos play for up to 10 hours, while videos decoded in software play for less than 5 hours before the battery is fully drained.

When websites re-encode their videos using H.264, they can offer them without using Flash at all. They play perfectly in browsers like Apple’s Safari and Google’s Chrome without any plugins whatsoever, and look great on iPhones, iPods and iPads.

Fifth, there’s Touch.

Flash was designed for PCs using mice, not for touch screens using fingers. For example, many Flash websites rely on “rollovers”, which pop up menus or other elements when the mouse arrow hovers over a specific spot. Apple’s revolutionary multi-touch interface doesn’t use a mouse, and there is no concept of a rollover. Most Flash websites will need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices. If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?

Even if iPhones, iPods and iPads ran Flash, it would not solve the problem that most Flash websites need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices.

Sixth, the most important reason.

Besides the fact that Flash is closed and proprietary, has major technical drawbacks, and doesn’t support touch based devices, there is an even more important reason we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads. We have discussed the downsides of using Flash to play video and interactive content from websites, but Adobe also wants developers to adopt Flash to create apps that run on our mobile devices.

We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers.

This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms.

Flash is a cross platform development tool. It is not Adobe’s goal to help developers write the best iPhone, iPod and iPad apps. It is their goal to help developers write cross platform apps. And Adobe has been painfully slow to adopt enhancements to Apple’s platforms. For example, although Mac OS X has been shipping for almost 10 years now, Adobe just adopted it fully (Cocoa) two weeks ago when they shipped CS5. Adobe was the last major third party developer to fully adopt Mac OS X.

Our motivation is simple – we want to provide the most advanced and innovative platform to our developers, and we want them to stand directly on the shoulders of this platform and create the best apps the world has ever seen. We want to continually enhance the platform so developers can create even more amazing, powerful, fun and useful applications. Everyone wins – we sell more devices because we have the best apps, developers reach a wider and wider audience and customer base, and users are continually delighted by the best and broadest selection of apps on any platform.

Conclusions.

Flash was created during the PC era – for PCs and mice. Flash is a successful business for Adobe, and we can understand why they want to push it beyond PCs. But the mobile era is about low power devices, touch interfaces and open web standards – all areas where Flash falls short.

The avalanche of media outlets offering their content for Apple’s mobile devices demonstrates that Flash is no longer necessary to watch video or consume any kind of web content. And the 200,000 apps on Apple’s App Store proves that Flash isn’t necessary for tens of thousands of developers to create graphically rich applications, including games.

New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind.

Steve Jobs
April, 2010
 
I have a hard time with Steve Jobs arguments over the fact that it is because flash isn't open due to how proprietary most apple stuff is.
 
I have a hard time with Steve Jobs arguments over the fact that it is because flash isn't open due to how proprietary most apple stuff is.

One of the many reasons why I don't take the man seriously.

He, much like the rest of Apple's marketing department, still don't seem to know what PC actually stands for either. I obviously know what Apple means, but it's still moronic to say how they don't classify their products as personal computers.
 
He, much like the rest of Apple's marketing department, still don't seem to know what PC actually stands for either. I obviously know what Apple means, but it's still moronic to say how they don't classify their products as personal computers.

You're barking up the wrong tree. They do classify their products as personal computers. The distinction with "PC's" on one side and "Mac's" on the other was made a long time ago when they were truly incompatible. PC referred to the IBM Personal Computer, a proper noun, not the literal meaning of personal computer. Of course today there is no such differentiation based on hardware, but it is too ingrained on both sides to go away.
 
Steve Jobs said:
New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind.

I think that Jobs is just being realistic, while Adobe wants to continue on with an outdated business model.
 
You're barking up the wrong tree. They do classify their products as personal computers. The distinction with "PC's" on one side and "Mac's" on the other was made a long time ago when they were truly incompatible. PC referred to the IBM Personal Computer, a proper noun, not the literal meaning of personal computer. Of course today there is no such differentiation based on hardware, but it is too ingrained on both sides to go away.

Fair enough. :3
 
this dialogue between the two companies has been going on a while, personally i think this is a rebuttle to

mike chambers said:
As developers for the iPhone have learned, if you want to develop for the iPhone you have to be prepared for Apple to reject or restrict your development at any time, and for seemingly any reason," Chambers said. "The primary goal of Flash has always been to enable cross browser, platform and device development. The cool Web game that you build can easily be targeted and deployed to multiple platforms and devices. However, this is the exact opposite of what Apple wants. They want to tie developers down to their platform, and restrict their options to make it difficult for developers to target other platforms.

and as it was said, apple isn't exactly open. and they acknowledge that, but on the same card they're trying to support open systems from within their proprietary closed off os, which is good...otherwise we would all be running windows/internet explorer/silverlight for everything web related ;).

personally i use a flash blocker on all my pc's. i can open flash videos if i want with a click but it doesnt display by default and i dont miss anything. the only legitimate use of flash i use is hulu and youtube anyways.
 
I hate Apple. I think their menstrual aid is the dumbest device I've ever seen. However, I hate Flash more. Multiplatform? BS. One recent example: vvvvvv is a Flash game. It will only run in Windows, however. Security isn't worth arguing. The number of Flash "games" packed with malware... Mobile? Good luck with that. Jobs is most definitely right on that point. Flash is so dang inefficient it'll kill any battery if you give it 5 minutes.
 
Steve Jobs is a narcissist of the maximum degree. He actually thinks that he/Apple has the clout to kill Flash--or at least curtail its use. The reality is there are more Flash developers out there than there are Macintosh computers and they are not going to stop building Flash apps just because they won't run on 1% of computers used (yes, I exaggerated--slightly).

I don't know a single Mac iPhone user (and I know LOTS) that doesn't curse [Lord 'Darth'] Steve Jobs every time they have to BootCamp out of Leopard any time they want to watch a video or play Bloons Tower Defense or use any similarly useful Flash app that they want/need to use.

While PC users could care less either way, Apple users--more than anyone--wish Jobs would get off his high horse and just let them use their computers iPhones the way THEY want to.

It's true that Flash has its flaws and its detractors, but it is ubiquitous. There is a large installed base and its tools are robust and it's going to be hanging around for a long time--sort of like COBOL.

Get used to it, Steve.
 
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In my experience it is the PowerPC-based Macs that choke HARD on Flash video content, allow me to rephrase that - they choke very hard on Flash content. For that reason I use a program called ClickToFlash with Safari on my Powerbook, it makes browsing the web actually usable. It has the added benefit of blocking flash ad content. :attn:
 
In my experience it is the PowerPC-based Macs that choke HARD on Flash video content, allow me to rephrase that - they choke very hard on Flash content. For that reason I use a program called ClickToFlash with Safari on my Powerbook, it makes browsing the web actually usable. It has the added benefit of blocking flash ad content. :attn:

my powerbook started struggling too at the end of its life, but it played things like hulu daily (couldn't view hi-res content, with that or youtube), but i'd like to see a ~1-1.5ghz amd/intel chip gobble down flash content like a fat kid and cake too. I use flashblock in firefox which is basically the same as your click to flash. I just got it because it works better than any ad block program i've ever installed haha.

I don't know a single Mac user (and I know LOTS) that doesn't curse [Lord 'Darth'] Steve Jobs every time they have to BootCamp out of Leopard any time they want to watch a video or play Bloons Tower Defense or use any similarly useful Flash app that they want/need to use.

i'm a mac user and i've never bootcamped up windows for either of these things... granted i dont know what the latter is but the former? flash video works fine on a mac :shrug:

*edit* just googled the tower defense thing. plays fine: MacOS 10.6 intel 2.8 C2D MacBook pro.
 
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my powerbook started struggling too at the end of its life, but it played things like hulu daily (couldn't view hi-res content, with that or youtube), but i'd like to see a ~1-1.5ghz amd/intel chip gobble down flash content like a fat kid and cake too. I use flashblock in firefox which is basically the same as your click to flash. I just got it because it works better than any ad block program i've ever installed haha.



i'm a mac user and i've never bootcamped up windows for either of these things... granted i dont know what the latter is but the former? flash video works fine on a mac :shrug:

*edit* just googled the tower defense thing. plays fine: MacOS 10.6 intel 2.8 C2D MacBook pro.

bah! mea culpa! I gotta quit posting at 4:00 am....
I meant to refer to iPhones. Macs can indeed run flash apps. I fixed my post. Thanks, for pointing this out, Whooping.
 
I dont know, but I have yet to seen any 'flash' video via HTML5 to see which is 'better'.

Install Chrome and try Youtube's HTML5 "beta" thing. I'm rather disappointed that they picked H.264 instead of ogg, though. If they want to avoid proprietary, then OMGWTFBBQ did they pick a non-open format?
 
Why does everyone rip Apple so bad? I USED to be an Apple fanboy, but lack of money put an end to that. Still, I find Apple very innovative. This instance seems quite a bit like when Apple decided to stop putting floppies in their computers. Remember that one? Apple was first and it had everyone in an uproar. Sony just announced they are stopping production of 3.5" floppies. How many computer manufacturers still include a floppy drive with their computers?

Maybe what Adobe needs to do is realize that Apple just might be correct about this and look into making changes to Flash. Apple has a pretty good track record (although not perfect) betting on the direction of technology. If Apple says that a current technology is archaic and we wont be using it in 5 or 10 years, I'm willing to take that bet.
 
Jobs is right, but he lacks tact. He revels in being a ****.

Flash sucks, always has. It's time to move on to HTML 5.

Acrobat sucks.

Photoshop is all Adobe is worth.
 
Jobs is right, but he lacks tact. He revels in being a ****.

Flash sucks, always has. It's time to move on to HTML 5.

Acrobat sucks.

Photoshop is all Adobe is worth.

relating to my real life experiences the best bosses have also been the biggest <insert your favorite explicative here>.

it may not be the most fun when its your thumb under the hammer but it gets **** done.

from what i've read job's takes in young and talented engineers and puts them in small design groups. makes them work insane hours and then personally verbally assaults every one of their ideas in ways not befitting of even a cable television broadcast (think R Lee Emrey of full metal jacket fame). whats left over becomes product, and apple grows.

this flash thing to me is just job's extending that reach out to another company and kicking it in the hind quarters for what he sees as unfit. it may not be popular, but if it works all the more power to him. at the end of the day forcing adobe to innovate is still innovation regardless of the motives and entities behind it. and innovation is good for the end user and this is also regardless of the why and how.
 
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