Windows 7 OEM or Full?

blackersabbath · Oct 18, 2010

I'm going to be putting together a new system here pretty soon and want to go with Windows 7 do get dx11. I'm wondering if I can just get the OEM version or should I go with the full retail version for $100 more?

xoke · Oct 18, 2010

blackersabbath said:
I'm going to be putting together a new system here pretty soon and want to go with Windows 7 do get dx11. I'm wondering if I can just get the OEM version or should I go with the full retail version for $100 more?

I've always ran OEM. Never had any issues other than the activation phone call when I switch systems and tell them it's only running on one machine. :shrug:

blackersabbath · Oct 18, 2010

Cool, that's what I was worried about....when I upgraded again, I would have to buy another copy

DaveHCYJ · Oct 18, 2010

It depends on how long you keep your hardware. I typically keep a computer for 2 years after I build it, but then I gift it to family members where it may live on for another 3 or 4 years, so I only ever have the need to install it on a single machine, thus OEM is cheaper.

If you build systems more frequently or like to move the OS from system to system and drop linux or something on your old hardware then Retail is the way to go since you can't system hop with OEM.

blackersabbath · Oct 18, 2010

Well, I'm gonna be hanging onto this one for a few years and upgrading as much as I can without a complete overhaul so I should be good with the OEM

Ba!nesy · Oct 21, 2010

probably rediuculous in me even saying, but i've read that (somehow) the OEM version is connected to a physical device (motherboard i think) and that you can't upgrade (not that I would but as info for others) or you would have trouble if you had to replace faulty parts.

1: Did I read it wrong?
2: assume I did read it right... full of crap?
3: whats the point in buying full, If you can only run it on 1 computer at a time anyways???

jaymz9350 · Oct 21, 2010

I've never had any problems upgrading and keeping my OEM Windows.

I'm on my 3rd motherboard (2nd complete build) on my current Vista OEM and I have an XP OEM that's been through at least 5 full upgrades.

xoke · Oct 21, 2010

Ba!nesy said:
probably rediuculous in me even saying, but i've read that (somehow) the OEM version is connected to a physical device (motherboard i think) and that you can't upgrade (not that I would but as info for others) or you would have trouble if you had to replace faulty parts.

1: Did I read it wrong?
2: assume I did read it right... full of crap?
3: whats the point in buying full, If you can only run it on 1 computer at a time anyways???

No your right, technicaLLY. :sn:

Listen, here is he scoop on OEM. It is supposed to be for one computer and one computer only. That is kinda how it is defined, as in I bought an HP from Wal-Mart and it has W7...that W7 should stay on that HP.

The issue is what defines a computer? If your systems motherboard legitimitly breaks and you have to replace it is that a new computer, no? But if you upgrade the motherboard it is....this is where the gray area comes into play.

OEM licensing has certain restrictions as to what you can and cannot do according to the terms of the EULA that you accept during installation.

Q. What computer component ties the OEM license to the computer?

A. Short answer – the first motherboard the OS was installed on. In the case of your purchase of an OEM license with a new computer, this license is tied to the motherboard of that system. In the case of a purchase of OEM software from a retail seller, this would be the first motherboard you install the software on, *not* the “hardware” that was bundled with your OEM purchase.

Quoted from Microsoft's OEM Builder FAQs:

"Q. Can a PC with OEM Windows XP have its motherboard upgraded and keep the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?

A. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC.

The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the end-user license agreement (EULA) and the support of the software covered by that EULA. The EULA is a set of usage rights granted to the end-user by the PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software as installed on for that particular PC. The System Builder is required to support that license the software on that individual PC. Understanding that end users, over time, upgrade their PC with different components, Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created. The original System Builder, therefore, can not be expected to support this new PC that they in effect, did not manufacture."

So here is where I stand. I think bootlegging is bad and every one should buy a legit copy of Windows. If I am the OEM, then I buy that license. I don't sell them, my copy of OEM windows only runs on my one computer, I'm not trying to screw anyone over. I own a legit copy of XP, Vista, and two legit copies of Windows 7...I bought them all and I'll be darned if I'm going to buy a new one because I get a new motherboard, but thats me.

blackersabbath · Oct 21, 2010

xokeman said:
No your right, technicaLLY.

Listen, here is he scoop on OEM. It is supposed to be for one computer and one computer only. That is kinda how it is defined, as in I bought an HP from Wal-Mart and it has W7...that W7 should stay on that HP.

The issue is what defines a computer? If your systems motherboard legitimitly breaks and you have to replace it is that a new computer, no? But if you upgrade the motherboard it is....this is where the gray area comes into play.

So here is where I stand. I think bootlegging is bad and every one should buy a legit copy of Windows. If I am the OEM, then I buy that license. I don't sell them, my copy of OEM windows only runs on my one computer, I'm not trying to screw anyone over. I own a legit copy of XP, Vista, and two legit copies of Windows 7...I bought them all and I'll be darned if I'm going to buy a new one because I get a new motherboard, but thats me.

That's where I stand too, why should I have to give Microsoft money for the same operating system twice just because I upgrade my computer. If I can prove that I own a legitimate copy, why should they care what I upgrade? Seems like greed to me, just saying...

xoke · Oct 21, 2010

blackersabbath said:
That's where I stand too, why should I have to give Microsoft money for the same operating system twice just because I upgrade my computer. If I can prove that I own a legitimate copy, why should they care what I upgrade? Seems like greed to me, just saying...

I don't think there are necessarily being greedy on this one. See Microsoft and the OEMs have a relationship with each other and to the customer. These OEM rules were not established to make people buy more OSes, though that may be the end result. The things is an OEM is responsible for the system they build to some point....so you add a video card to an HP, it's still an HP, just an upgraded one and HP is still somewhat attached to that computer...now, you swap a new motherboard into an HP and that is no longer an HP...we can all agree on that. I think this is all the result of legal lawyer mumbo jumbo between large OEMs and Microsoft and their collective responsibility to back their products.

We are a conundrum to the industry. We all feel like we are a big part of the market, but in the bigger picture of things home builders aren't a drop in the bucket. We may build a computer every year...some of us two or three...HP probably sells 50,000 a day...everyday.

So while we may be in some gray area, I highly doubt it would be MS's time and effort to come down on us....as one, we kinda are like OEMs...and most of us only run the OS on one system at a time anyways, we just have a different definition of upgrade.

All that said..if you started building computers with the intent to sell and used any MS software on more than one computer then Billy and the crew would drop the biggest pirating ban hammer ever on you...as they should.

DaveHCYJ · Oct 21, 2010

Ba!nesy said:
probably rediuculous in me even saying, but i've read that (somehow) the OEM version is connected to a physical device (motherboard i think) and that you can't upgrade (not that I would but as info for others) or you would have trouble if you had to replace faulty parts.

1: Did I read it wrong?
2: assume I did read it right... full of crap?
3: whats the point in buying full, If you can only run it on 1 computer at a time anyways???

There is definitely alot of confusing information out there. Here's the deal: The OEM license is tied to the first computer you install it on. Kind of like if you buy a Dell with windows that copy of windows is tied to that computer; you can't take that copy of windows and put it on some other computer. You are free to upgrade the computer all you want however. Want a new graphics card? Great. Go ahead and install it. There are some very long threads on whether or not the same applies to the motherboard, so I don't want to drag it back up, but to summarize: You definitely can replace your motherboard if it breaks and you most likely can even if it doesn't (the reason being that only the EULA is legally binding and the FAQ quoted by xokeman is not).

However the one thing you definitely can not do is move your OEM windows to a whole new computer or "upgrade every single component in your computer ha ha wink wink". So the part bolded in the following is definitely against the EULA:

jaymz9350 said:
I've never had any problems upgrading and keeping my OEM Windows.

I'm on my 3rd motherboard (2nd complete build) on my current Vista OEM and I have an XP OEM that's been through at least 5 full upgrades.

xokeman said:
So here is where I stand. I think bootlegging is bad and every one should buy a legit copy of Windows. If I am the OEM, then I buy that license. I don't sell them, my copy of OEM windows only runs on my one computer, I'm not trying to screw anyone over. I own a legit copy of XP, Vista, and two legit copies of Windows 7...I bought them all and I'll be darned if I'm going to buy a new one because I get a new motherboard, but thats me.

I'm totally with xokeman here... As long as you are following the EULA and not moving your copy of windows to an entirely new computer don't let anyone tell you can't upgrade your current build.

pik4chu · Oct 21, 2010

xokeman said:
I don't think there are necessarily being greedy on this one. See Microsoft and the OEMs have a relationship with each other and to the customer. These OEM rules were not established to make people buy more OSes, though that may be the end result. The things is an OEM is responsible for the system they build to some point....so you add a video card to an HP, it's still an HP, just an upgraded one and HP is still somewhat attached to that computer...now, you swap a new motherboard into an HP and that is no longer an HP...we can all agree on that. I think this is all the result of legal lawyer mumbo jumbo between large OEMs and Microsoft and their collective responsibility to back their products.

We are a conundrum to the industry. We all feel like we are a big part of the market, but in the bigger picture of things home builders aren't a drop in the bucket. We may build a computer every year...some of us two or three...HP probably sells 50,000 a day...everyday.

So while we may be in some gray area, I highly doubt it would be MS's time and effort to come down on us....as one, we kinda are like OEMs...and most of us only run the OS on one system at a time anyways, we just have a different definition of upgrade.

All that said..if you started building computers with the intent to sell and used any MS software on more than one computer then Billy and the crew would drop the biggest pirating ban hammer ever on you...as they should.

Pretty much summed it up right here.

I build around 5-10 computers a year probably (folding ftw!

) and comparatively the company I work for (which isnt very big at all) is a dell reseller, at any given time we have around 100+ dell machines on their way in or one their way out on a regular basis. I think this week we have gotten in shipments... 48 laptops, 16 tablets, 54 workstations, 20 thin clients and around 12 servers. Adding one more to that wouldn't make anyone at dell notice. We are also one of the largest resellers (unit count wise) of workstations in Colorado too. Not that our account rep does us any favors though -_-;

benbaked · Oct 21, 2010

xokeman said:
I don't think there are necessarily being greedy on this one. See Microsoft and the OEMs have a relationship with each other and to the customer. These OEM rules were not established to make people buy more OSes, though that may be the end result. The things is an OEM is responsible for the system they build to some point....so you add a video card to an HP, it's still an HP, just an upgraded one and HP is still somewhat attached to that computer...now, you swap a new motherboard into an HP and that is no longer an HP...we can all agree on that. I think this is all the result of legal lawyer mumbo jumbo between large OEMs and Microsoft and their collective responsibility to back their products.

We are a conundrum to the industry. We all feel like we are a big part of the market, but in the bigger picture of things home builders aren't a drop in the bucket. We may build a computer every year...some of us two or three...HP probably sells 50,000 a day...everyday.

So while we may be in some gray area, I highly doubt it would be MS's time and effort to come down on us....as one, we kinda are like OEMs...and most of us only run the OS on one system at a time anyways, we just have a different definition of upgrade.

All that said..if you started building computers with the intent to sell and used any MS software on more than one computer then Billy and the crew would drop the biggest pirating ban hammer ever on you...as they should.

However you choose to interpret Microsoft's EULA is your choice, but its still a violation of their licensing to move an OEM copy of Windows from one motherboard to the next, even if you only have it installed on one system at a time. If that is your intent that's why Microsoft sells the retail version of Windows, which allows you to use it on whatever computer you wish provided its only on one at a time. It's essentially no different then Apple's licensing with OS X, you can interpret the EULA however you wish. Will Apple or Microsoft come after you if you're breaking their EULA for personal machines or family machines? Probably not. But its still against their licensing terms.

xoke · Oct 21, 2010

I'll break my old motherboard before upgrading from now on. :chair:

DaveHCYJ · Oct 21, 2010

benbaked said:
However you choose to interpret Microsoft's EULA is your choice, but its still a violation of their licensing to move an OEM copy of Windows from one motherboard to the next, even if you only have it installed on one system at a time. If that is your intent that's why Microsoft sells the retail version of Windows, which allows you to use it on whatever computer you wish provided its only on one at a time. It's essentially no different then Apple's licensing with OS X, you can interpret the EULA however you wish. Will Apple or Microsoft come after you if you're breaking their EULA for personal machines or family machines? Probably not. But its still against their licensing terms.

At least with the OSX EULA you can have some sympathy for the people that break it to make hackintoshes, because there is no alternative. Its a bit harder to justify breaking the MS OEM EULA since for 50 bucks more (or whatever it is) you could have a copy of the OS that can be installed on infinitely many PCs (one at a time).

I know on these forums we always crack down hard on people discussing hackintoshes, but it kind of makes me scratch my head that if you do a search for MS OEM vs Retail inevitably every one of those threads will have at least one person declaring how many different machines they've installed the OEM version on. :shrug:

xokeman said:
I'll break my old motherboard before upgrading from now on.

No need, motherboard is not mentioned in the EULA at all nor is broken motherboard mentioned. Maybe it would help if you reactivate so often you have to call and talk to someone since MS seems to think it matters, but as far as the EULA is concerned it doesn't matter.

The whole motherboard broken vs not broken argument is kind of the flipside of some people arguing you should be to install OEM windows on any number of machines. The later ignores things in the EULA while the former reads more into the EULA than is really there.

hi-yield · Oct 21, 2010

I've never had any problems upgrading and keeping my OEM Windows.

I'm on my 3rd motherboard (2nd complete build) on my current Vista OEM and I have an XP OEM that's been through at least 5 full upgrades

Same goes with me.......I don't have windows 7 so maybe it's changed.

jaymz9350 · Oct 23, 2010

DaveHCYJ said:
However the one thing you definitely can not do is move your OEM windows to a whole new computer or "upgrade every single component in your computer ha ha wink wink". So the part bolded in the following is definitely against the EULA:

I'm totally with xokeman here... As long as you are following the EULA and not moving your copy of windows to an entirely new computer don't let anyone tell you can't upgrade your current build.

How many components are OK then? How many upgrades equal a "new build"?

I look at it like this, if Microsoft doesn't want me to use it on my new hardware don't let me activate it (I won't get around activation).

DaveHCYJ · Oct 23, 2010

jaymz9350 said:
How many components are OK then? How many upgrades equal a "new build"?

Thats a tough question. I don't have an answer. You would probably have to go to court with MS over the EULA to truely find out.

There are some things we do know though. Obviously replacing every component makes it a new build. Likewise replacing every component except for the thumb screws (a popular option 5-9? years ago to "stay legal") also yeilds a new computer.

Beyond that I don't know I would say use your judgement on what feels like a new/different computer to you.

I'll give you a personal example. Back in 2004 dvd writers became cheap enough so I replaced my dvd reader. Three months later a power surge killed my motherboard. While replacing the motherboard I had the whole computer torn apart anyway so I figured I might as well replace the case. Two months later another power surge killed my hard drive, so I replaced it (this time I bought a UPS also

). Four months later I was given a new video card by my work that they didn't need anymore.
Ok so at this point the only original parts were the cpu ram and power supply. If I would have made the concious decision to replace all those parts at once it would been pretty close to feeling like a new build. But since it was slowly spread out over the course of a year it always felt like my same old computer.

I don't really think the problem is people that might replace 80% or 90% or 99 or 50 or whatever percentage to you makes it feel like a new computer. I think the problem is people that replace 100% of their computer several times over with an OEM rather than a retail license.

jaymz9350 said:
I look at it like this, if Microsoft doesn't want me to use it on my new hardware don't let me activate it (I won't get around activation).

Some people already have enough complaints about the activation process, I don't think MS making it more strict would really be good for anything.

This train of thought goes along with what someone said higher in the thread along the lines of "I've used my OEM copy X times and always gotten away with it". Ok thats great... I knew someone in grade school that stole candy bars every single day from the local 7-11 after school. He always got away with it. Does that make his actions legal or moral? The 7-11 eventually installed security cameras and later even posted a gaurd at the door during the after school rush, but this kid still managed to always steal candy bars. By the logic above, since the 7-11 could never catch him I guess they didn't actually mind that he stole stuff, right?

jaymz9350 · Oct 24, 2010

DaveHCYJ said:
I don't really think the problem is people that might replace 80% or 90% or 99 or 50 or whatever percentage to you makes it feel like a new computer. I think the problem is people that replace 100% of their computer several times over with an OEM rather than a retail license.

Well that puts me in the clear then, I've never replaced 100% of my computer at once. The way I phrase "new" computer usually means mobo/cpu/gpu/ram everything else usually stays the same given it stays functional and up to-date enough to use.

DaveHCYJ said:
Some people already have enough complaints about the activation process, I don't think MS making it more strict would really be good for anything.

This train of thought goes along with what someone said higher in the thread along the lines of "I've used my OEM copy X times and always gotten away with it". Ok thats great... I knew someone in grade school that stole candy bars every single day from the local 7-11 after school. He always got away with it. Does that make his actions legal or moral? The 7-11 eventually installed security cameras and later even posted a gaurd at the door during the after school rush, but this kid still managed to always steal candy bars. By the logic above, since the 7-11 could never catch him I guess they didn't actually mind that he stole stuff, right?

Did the 7-11 employee tell him he could have it? Otherwise it's apples to oranges to me. I said I won't defeat the activation (steal) but if Microsoft activates it for me I see I'm going to use it.

SteveLord · Oct 25, 2010

I had to call Microsoft twice during my XP years. I told them I bought a bigger hard drive or had to do a wipe because of a virus.

Windows 7 OEM or Full?

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