Why can't I cool down?

I've got and AMD Phenom IIx4 940BE. Even at stock I can't get this thing to run cool as most people. I'm using a Rocketfish RF-UPCUWR heat sink. It would seem that most people can get their temps in the low 30's but I have trouble getting low 40's. I've oc'ed it to 3.6 ghz and the temps are ~43C idle and 62c at load. For some reason windows 7 needs the cpu voltage 1 knotch higher than XP. I'd like to go farther but there is no way it will do it at least not stable unless I can get cooler. At first it was worse so I took the heat sink off and put fresh compound on it and tried again and got the temps I have now. I'm thinking of upgrading to water cooling but if I have trouble with matching other folks this way I have no reason to believe the same issue won't surface with water cooling. I'm using a compound that came with the heat sink and I know that arctic silver is preferred but can that really be my cause? BTW Dolk's phenom II sticky rocks. I've booted into windows at 3.8ghz but it's not stable do to temps.

Soo many reasons why...

1. Your cooler. Not sure if its good or not. I havent heard of it, so that makes me a bit nervous its not as good as others and barely better than the stock solution.
2. Your ambient temp (what is it?).
3. Case airflow (what case and fan setup?).

Where does it load (prime95) at stock clocks?

EarthDog said:

Soo many reasons why...

1. Your cooler. Not sure if its good or not. I havent heard of it, so that makes me a bit nervous its not as good as others and barely better than the stock solution.
2. Your ambient temp (what is it?).
3. Case airflow (what case and fan setup?).

Click to expand...

Nothing high tech. The case is a modified case salvaged from an old Gateway. Originally this thing had a P4 in it so Gateway went a long way for cooling. There is a vent right above the heat sink and fan. There is a 120 mm fan in the back and I modified the case so there is an additional 90 mm fan in the side. Didn't have room for another 120mm. I've tied off the wiring so to make airflow easier. This room can get a bit warm. I've never actually tested the temp so I guess I should. There is more than 1 computer running at all times sometimes as many as 4 but mostly 2. Having 2 boxes running especially one running a p4 makes a difference I know. That could be mostly it. Now that cooler weather is here I think I'll check the ambient temp and open a window. I'm thinking of going to water cooling but I have no expertise there so I would likely go with a pre-made thing like maybe corsair. Cash is an issue as my wife pinches pennies far more than needed IMHO of course and I'll deny everything....

before you go and buy one of the premade water loops, check out the watercooling section and check out muddocktor's review of the h70, it doesn't quite outperform high end air and it's pretty overpriced if you have room for high end air

Update: I've opened the windows it can't be more than 69 in here and no change in temps. Even if my cooling sucks why wouldn't it help to lower the ambient room temp? Core temp is still `45c. I'm using easytune 6 for my readings but I also have core temp and it is even higher 50c. Frustrating. How can I have 2 fans sucking air into a box and not change the temperature?

pull the side off the case and point a box fan in there, report back with temps.

Rigit said:

Update: I've opened the windows it can't be more than 69 in here and no change in temps. Even if my cooling sucks why wouldn't it help to lower the ambient room temp? Core temp is still `45c. I'm using easytune 6 for my readings but I also have core temp and it is even higher 50c. Frustrating. How can I have 2 fans sucking air into a box and not change the temperature?

Click to expand...

All suck and no blow = bad case flow (thought I was going somewhere else with that?! )

Optimal is: Top/Rear = exhaust and Front/sides = intake on most cases. You should have more exhaust than intake, but that subject is quite...well subjective.

If I read correctly then you got better results after a remount w/ fresh TIM. You may still need more practice. It took me a few times at first as well. Usually people put too much down at first. And folks are usually pretty scared to crank the pressure down on the CPU like is required.

If you do another remount, take a pic of the bottom of the HS and the top of the CPU before you do it again for critique.

If you have the ability try and get some MX-2. I'd skip AS5 if buying new.

As m0r7if3r alluded you're probably not getting good enough airflow in the case. That case may have been designed for a P4, but it was also designed to run up to the thermal limits of the P4 and it not being OC'd.

Any CPU can run at much higher temps at stock than it can OC'd and remain stable. And that's how Gateway designed their case.

You might be seeing the classic 'Putting a big engine in a old car'. The box was fine with the teeny engine, but the 'ol car isn't made for bigger stuff.

It really sounds like your cooler might be weak and for sure the case is old for airflow. You also don't mention your GPU. Your GPU, if a modern kinda expensive one makes a LOT of heat too.

Your best bet is get a house fan and blow in into the side of the case (side off of course) and check temps. If they drop a lot, then get a new case.

Please tell us what Case, pics would be nice, the CPU cooler you have and the GPU. Making a sig like most of us have would be very very helpful.

Room temps. Got a cheap thermometer?

I'll have to agree on the case being a very limiting factor, The average mid towers these days to house even mild hardware OC'd usually average at least 4 120mm fans.

edit: to elaborate, with all the wires clammed up in that (presumably) small case to, even with extra fans, I doubt your moving air effectively.

edit: 2.0 to the forums !

Oh, and just food for thought. black november @ the egg. Here's a nice penny pinchers case free shipping!


edit: (yes i do this alot, try not to be a shameless poster ).. I did a quick Google recon on your cooler, looks like it's in the OK to OC category, but maybe not that extreme, one thing i did find though , a customer review that seemed to know what he was saying, and said that he had a sever temp drop depending on which way he mounted the sink. So if there is an option for you, try changing the mounting from horizontal to vertical or vice versa.

EarthDog said:

Soo many reasons why...

1. Your cooler. Not sure if its good or not. I havent heard of it, so that makes me a bit nervous its not as good as others and barely better than the stock solution.
2. Your ambient temp (what is it?).
3. Case airflow (what case and fan setup?).

Click to expand...

And 4. TIM quality and method of application.

With these exposed heat pipe coolers it a good idea to apply a thin line of good quality TIM (like Arctic Silver 5 or Arctic Cooling MX2/MX3) along both sides of the pipes where they lay in a channel in the heat sink base. Then take a razor blade or a credit card and drag the edge across the cooler base so as to force the TIM into the channel along side the pipes. There is usually a small gap there. Then put a BB-sized blob of TIM on the CPU face. Lower the cooler onto the CPU careully, trying tgo center it. Before clamping it, give the cooler a twist about 20 degrees to the left and then to the right. Then snug her down with the spring clamp lever.

This cooler will face wither vertically or from front to back so normally it is best to have the cooler fan facing the back panel of the case so that the exhausted warm air is extracted efficiently by the fan at the back of the case (if there is one). Good case air flow is essential to good temps. Rigit, tell us about your case. How many, how big are your case fans and where are they located? An uploaded pic of the inside of your case so we could see the layout would be helpful.

By the way, that Rocketfish CPU cooler is an exact knockoff of the Coolermaster TX3. Not a bad 92mm fan-based cooler at all. I put one on my HDTV computer.

WOW! Thanks for the help! I've got both fans running in exhaust mode so I should probably change that. First I think I'll open the case and point a fan inside and see what happens. Regardless after that I think I'll pull the HS off and try mounting it again. It is a bit cumbersome to mount and a second try couldn't hurt. It's mounted so the fan is facing the back of the case. I did that so that the rear fan could exhaust the air. I don't know how to upload pics. Probably a good thing as I wouldn't want to be embarrassed. I know a better case would help and I will be replacing it. I guess I just thought that doing something would help and nothing so far has. I mean cooling the room should have done something. I appreciate all the advice and I WILL be making some changes as I can. The retry on the HS mount should help most....I think.

To upload pics:

1. Go to the “Message Window” and choose “Advanced”
2. Go to “Manage Attachments” located below the message window under “Additional Options”. A window pops up to enable you to browse for the image or images.
3. Select “Choose File” button to browse for and select the image file or files to upload.
4. Click “Upload”. You can upload up to three at a time.
5. Close the “Manage Attachments” window.
6. In the message window, type in any remarks you wish to include with the images.
7. Click on “Submit Reply” to post the images and your comments
8. If the images fail to upload it will be because you exceeded the file size limit. You will need to break the upload into more than one post or reduce the size of the images. There are freeware “file downsizer” programs available. The one I use is called “PIXresizer”. Please make the images large enough to easily read the text they contain but not so large they eat up a lot of screen viewing area. This may take some experimenting on your part.

I use Photobucket (free) to store my pics on line and link them from here. Photobucket has resizing on line options, pretty decent. I use Ifranview (free) to change sizes before uploading them to forums and photobucket.

This isn't making sense. Opening the side and pointing a fan directly at the processor has made absolutely no change. At one point the temps went up a degree C. I'm not getting this. With all that air the temps should get better even if the HS is not on correctly. I guess if it isn't making proper contact but even so the contact it is making should be more efficient with all that air. I'll be posting pics a bit later right now I have a dr appointment. I will post them today. Again I appreciate the input from everyone.

Directly at the processor? What fan. We are talking a standard 12" or larger house fan that will blow air into the whole case.

It might be your TIM application. Direct Heatpipe heatsinks need a different method. Trents had a good explanation, and I have seen pics on the web on how to do it.

When you pull your HS off the CPU could you please post a pic of the TIM spread on the CPU and bottom of the HS?

AMD guys, do you remove the Mobo to ensure the pins/screws etc are secure on the bottom like we do on Intel chips?

I would try to find a pic of where the actual silicon die is under the heat spreader, and orient the cooler so that the heatpipes are as close as possible.
Looking at the pics of the base of that cooler i see a very wide spacing between the heatpipes, if it's oriented the wrong way the entire die is going to be on one single 6mm heatpipe, which isn't nearly enough cooling.
I think that's probably half the problem, and the other half is that it isn't an especially good cooler in the first place.
EDIT:
Ok, the die goes in the same direction as the AMD copyright notice.
Put the cooler on there so that the heatpipes go the same way as the AMD Phenom II X4 lettering, and see if that helps.

Rigit said:

This isn't making sense. Opening the side and pointing a fan directly at the processor has made absolutely no change. At one point the temps went up a degree C. I'm not getting this. With all that air the temps should get better even if the HS is not on correctly. I guess if it isn't making proper contact but even so the contact it is making should be more efficient with all that air. I'll be posting pics a bit later right now I have a dr appointment. I will post them today. Again I appreciate the input from everyone.

Click to expand...

Are you talking about load temps or idle temps. Idle temps don't mean much, so please be sure to always test w/ a heavy load; Prime95 small-fft.