What's the big deal with SSD?

McGrace · Dec 26, 2010

So after perusing many of these threads, a frequent mention is that Windows boot times drop significantly. I checked on harddrivebenchmarks.net and the Samsung spinpoints clock in around 850 and the absolute best SSD is around 2000. Most SSDs are somewhere between the 2000 and 850, evenly spaced out. With a few stragglers actually slower than the spinpoints.

I hit my power button and the stopwatch and it took 42 seconds to load. A good 5+ seconds was just my PSU kicking on and the mobo coming alive to post. So I am not exactly that far off from a 30 second Windows boot which I see a lot of users happy with. Are lots seeing much faster than 30 seconds now?

Is an SSD much faster overall? Is the speed increase a good bang for the buck yet? Is this more of a high end gaming thing? (Too addicted to Rome Total War to need performance any more.)

uberwoot · Dec 26, 2010

Really all depends on the drive On a old install my old 80gb X25-M boots from bios to windows everything loaded "bunch of stuff to load to" in 26sec.

Installing programs is noticeably faster than my old drive and transferring files from ssd to ssd it was getting about 10gigs a min what is pretty fast. Load times for the games i play were pretty much cut in 1/2 "instances in world of warcraft load much faster"

I love my ssd'd they do make the pc feel a bit more snappy and my old drive i was useing was a 1tb Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ. They even feel more snappy than the veloiciraptor when i used it.

To me it really all boils down to price per gb. do you want a little more speed and dont need more storage then you can get a 40gb or 80gb ssd. Do you need more storage and want more speed then you can always get another hdd and raid them.

One think i will tell you is that when i click a program like firfox it instantly opens. I got zero wait time. And for meny programs its just like that.

If you wanna test one out you can allways check and see if your local bestbuy has any X-25M 40bgs on sale for about $70-$80 and pick one up and try it out. If you dont like it you can allways sell it.

wingman99 · Dec 27, 2010

Well when you use a stop watch the savings are not significant, so if you look at it that way SSD is not helpful. However if you have the money you should get one because they are faster.

bing · Dec 27, 2010

Booting the os is definitely way faster than mechanical drives even in they're in raid 0.

My boot time using ssd raid 0 is under 10 seconds, but this is not the main reason I switched to ssd, its the overall snappy performance and high disk activities applictions that I'm constantly using is the primary decision to jump ship. Yes, you can actually feel the difference.

Check my thread here to show you the true experience -> http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=662308 and pay attention at the video on the part where I launched 3 XP virtual machines at once, no mechanical drive will beat that even on real machine, and the nice fast boot time too of course.

Even single ssd will make a huge difference in user's experience compared to mechanical drive.

beenthere · Dec 27, 2010

bing said:
Booting the os is definitely way faster than mechanical drives even in they're in raid 0.

If all you do is boot the O/S all day long how do you get anything done?

<SNIP>

Even single ssd will make a huge difference in user's experience compared to mechanical drive.

I'm sure the chronic SSD drive failures, loss of data, shipping SSDs back and forth for warranty most definitely will make a huge difference in a user's "experience". Most folks would prefer to NOT have that "experience". Maybe when the bugs are sorted and the capacity is appropriate and the price reasonable, SSDs might make sense?

CesspoolofDoom · Dec 27, 2010

Booting into the operating system is an experience that everyone can relate to that is very hard drive dependent. For the record, my computer boots, fully into windows, in under 20 seconds (I'd shave a couple of seconds off if I didn't have a password).

I haven't had any problems with my SSD and haven't seen a whole lot of complaints about needing to RMA and stuff like that (I've never even heard of someone having loss of data with a SSD).

A 120GB SSD can be had for about $200, which is reasonable considering the performance boosts in everyday use (startup and shutdown times, program install times, program opening times) and that most people won't use more than 120 gigs except for storing media (which can just be put on a large mechanical drive). I haven't done any space saving stuff on my SSD and have 40 gigs left, and that's with several games installed (Rift, SCII, Mass Effect, and a few steam games)

A SSD won't increase your FPS or anything, but I don't really put it into the category of CPU/GPU/ram because it won't have to be upgraded as often. I put it into the same category as monitors and mouses and keyboards. They can last for the lifetime of several computers and noticeably improve everyday computing.

Posting an anecdote about what you've experienced with a product (including specifics) can be helpful. Making sweeping statements about reliability without specifics isn't.

beenthere · Dec 27, 2010

Check any SSD support forums for lost data, failed drives, disappearing drives, etc. It's an eye opener. The issues are not an exaggeration at all.

I can afford any HD's and based on real world issues, SSDs are not acceptable to me. As I said - maybe down the road they'll get the bugs sorted out but for now I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

If you're happy with them great, but there is no denying the operational issues and failures documented in the SSD forums.

Wega! · Dec 27, 2010

beenthere said:
Check any SSD support forums for lost data, failed drives, disappearing drives, etc. It's an eye opener. The issues are not an exaggeration at all.

I can afford any HD's and based on real world issues, SSDs are not acceptable to me. As I said - maybe down the road they'll get the bugs sorted out but for now I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

If you're happy with them great, but there is no denying the operational issues and failures documented in the SSD forums.

Dont people only go to the support forum if they have problems? Wouldn't things look the same if you go to any motherboard support forum?
I dont think you can conclude much from looking at support forums, as people only come there for help. And yes there will always be some drives with problems, but you have to take the amount sold drives into that math as well, before you can make anything useful out of it.

And no I dont have an SSD myself... Yet

jgv115 · Dec 27, 2010

beenthere said:
Check any SSD support forums for lost data, failed drives, disappearing drives, etc. It's an eye opener. The issues are not an exaggeration at all.

I can afford any HD's and based on real world issues, SSDs are not acceptable to me. As I said - maybe down the road they'll get the bugs sorted out but for now I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

If you're happy with them great, but there is no denying the operational issues and failures documented in the SSD forums.

haha your loss

I'm fine with my G1 Intel drive. I've had it for a year + now and even though it's G1 I've had no issues and no performance deterioration.

fundip · Dec 27, 2010

i've been running a vertex2 for about 3 months now and havent had one problem yet. it replaced a 3 hdd raid0 and it made a pretty significant difference. after the bios is done loading it only takes about 5 seconds to get to the desk top compared to about 20 seconds with the raid0. i put a few often played games and apps on it as well and they open almost instantaneously.

at this time i am a satisfied user and recommend that anyone with a fast computer remove that hdd bottle neck by installing a ssd for the operating system and use hdd's for storage.

as far as failure rate goes, ssd's are a relatively new consumer product and long term data does not yet exist on their reliability, but they have no moving parts so it is likely they are more reliable than hdd's. that being said, if you have data that you cannot afford to lose it is wise to back it up on multiple drives because failures will happen eventually.

i also have to agree with wega! about the support forums. i've never had a problem with my ssd so ive never posted on any support forums about all the trouble im not having with it.

Kasm · Dec 27, 2010

Personnal, upgrading to SSD has been the single best upgrade I have ever done. The SSD allows my computer to boot to windows with all services loaded in about 10 seconds, used to be >1 minute before.

Plus like everyone one else has stated, applications open instantly.

I have had my OCZ vertex turbo for about a year now. It isn't as fast as the new sandforces out there now but I am 100% satified.

In the last year I have had zero issues with the OCZ drive, I even shut trim off to see how good garbage collection is incase I ever want to go raid 0, and with just garbage collection, I have seen zero performance degradation over the last year. Also this year, I have never posted anything about my SSD, so just because support forums show people with issues doesn't mean that SSD are no good. Support forums are exactly that: For Support.

Now if they had a post here if you are having a good time then, I still probably wouldn't post because I am too busy being productive with my SSD to stop and make an account on a forum only to say "hello world! everything is going good" and never use the account again.

Point is, as said before you have to take total problems/total # sold to get anything meaning full. And from glancing at the forums they have sold massively more drives than they have complaints.

For reference, I use a SSD for my OS, and an HDD for all my media files to get the bost of both worlds, speed for apps and size for storing media.

beenthere · Dec 27, 2010

It is what it is. If you're happy with your SSD, great but both Tom's Hardware and Anandtech along with many other folks actually do not believe that SSD's are quite ready for prime time and I concur. Yes they are improving, but they are still not reliable enough to be practical for most applications.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Buy what makes you happy but don't try to dismiss the bugs that exists in a product be it a SSD or mobo because for those who desire a reliable PC, product defects are a very serious issue. I'm not missing out on anything by using reliable, fast 15K SCSI drives, except the lost data and failed drives that SSD owners get to experience.

One thing we know about pioneers, aka early adopters... they end up with a lot of arrows in their arse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive

bing · Dec 27, 2010

beenthere said:
Check any SSD support forums for lost data, failed drives, disappearing drives, etc. It's an eye opener. The issues are not an exaggeration at all.

If all you do is just reading those support forums which it's purpose to serve users with problems, then how do you ever buy a ssd ?

Just don't hang out too much at any product support forums, worry you might not buy anything from now. :rofl:

But honestly, you concern is valid if you brought this up maybe few years back, yeah, it was like hell, but now, I don't think its a real big issue.

EarthDog · Dec 27, 2010

Holy cow beenthere... thats all you do is read support forums and vomit out the garbage posted there. You are a smart guy and should know that all you will likely see are the bad news about them. Want to know why? Its a SUPPORT forum. You did that about another relatively non issue with AMD vs Intel ram too. Sure it can be an issue, but its likely not for most people...in this case its even more of a non issue too.

Also, the wiki article you listed is outdated terribly and even said so at the begining.

Honestly dude, if Fundip is onboard with SSD's and reliability, we all should be!!! (you dont understand how that guy goes off at any chance he can get about gigabyte boards and how they suck...

)

Summary: They are fine. Like ANY drive you own having a backup is a must. So long as your protect yourself and your data, you will likely have no more issues with a modern SSD than you would a mechanical drive.

The FUD machines have been out over the holiday's at this site... wow.

McGrace · Dec 27, 2010

My timing on boot only included going to the password screen. I did not take into account after that. I did not think to include the time it takes for all of the services to load up and whatnot. (I'm a dev so I have database and web servers and whatnot that load up) Are the 20 second boot times bios to mouse? (Meaning after POST and ending when you can actually do stuff with the mouse without an hourglass)

fundip · Dec 27, 2010

its really more gigabyte customer/technical support i have issues with. but anyway, the only real reason to turd all over ssd's is the $/GB. other than that they are a rock solid piece of hardware.

fundip · Dec 27, 2010

McGrace said:
My timing on boot only included going to the password screen. I did not take into account after that. I did not think to include the time it takes for all of the services to load up and whatnot. (I'm a dev so I have database and web servers and whatnot that load up) Are the 20 second boot times bios to mouse? (Meaning after POST and ending when you can actually do stuff with the mouse without an hourglass)

the type of os drive in the machine will only affect the boot time after the motherboard bios is done doing its thing.

EarthDog · Dec 27, 2010

fundip said:
...the only real reason to turd all over ssd's is the $/GB. other than that they are a rock solid piece of hardware.

fundip said:
the type of os drive in the machine will only affect the boot time after the motherboard bios is done doing its thing.

+1...

From power on to desktop with circle thingy not spinning is around 25 seconds for me, with about 15 of it being the POST. With my old raptor I was sitting around 45 seconds or so.

Wega! · Dec 27, 2010

Hmm, a little OT, but I'm going to buy Vertex 2's really soon. And I dont know if I should get one 60GB for OS, or run 2x 60GB's in raid 0 for OS and main programs and games? It sounds like you guys are getteng very nice performance, even when not running them in raid. Think raid 0 is worth it?

EarthDog · Dec 27, 2010

Unless you deal with large files a lot, I wouldnt worry about it. Boot times stayed about the same for me when I had 2 vertex's in R0 b/c of the RAID bios that has to load in POST.

Get a single larger one would be my advice, again, if you dont work with a lot of large files.

What's the big deal with SSD?

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