[Adak]

Originally Posted by Wicked_Pixie

@ HayesK & Adak

Wait guys... hold on now. You mean to tell me I bought an SSD for nothing.
I could've sworn before I left, I read threads with people reporting
faster read/write on SSDs - anywhere from 30min - an hr. That was just
an ext. 3 thing? Holy crap! I missed the memo on that one.

Note to self: Read/ask before buying stuff... and do not open the damn box. Just return it.

The popular Ubuntu 11.04 uses the ext4 file system, by default. So along came the bigadv work units, and the 60 minutes plus to write the data, and it seemed like an SSD was a critical speed up, since it did the data write up to the hd, in a flash. That was what you read about, I'm sure.

No one noticed right away, that if they used the same linux distro, and used ext3, that the write data times were just a dozen seconds or so for these wu's. It was unthinkable that ext4 could be so bad.

But it is.

ext3 (or NTFS file system on Windows), is just fine.

It always takes me more than a day, and frequently more than two days, to fold a bigadv work unit. So a 4-12 second delay while the days is written out to the hd in it's final form, seems OK to me.

[the_cultie]

Welcome back WP.

Great to have you back in the fold. That i7-930 should do nicely with bigadv. What clocks are you running on it?

[tuigi69]

Originally Posted by Wicked_Pixie

Awww, thanks cuda

I had to google what a 2600K was. lol I'm really out of touch. :P
Read a bit @ folding forum and I got lost... really fast...

I'm just starting w/ 2 rigs:

1st one would be running an old X5650 and HD6970 in CF.
The GPUs might have to go to SETI if it doesn't fold well or I might just exchange it
after I play with it awhile.

Last I heard in bigadv, having an SSD helps a lot. Is that still the case?

What's the RAM requirement for running bigadv via VM?



2nd rig is just a i7-930. Haven't decided on a GPU yet? Any good recommendations for performance/watt NV GPU?

Actually you're old X5650 would do pretty well if you can OC it. It's a hexacore with HT, so if you run linux, you can get the new 6903 and 6904. A 4Ghz OC will get you about 70k-80k ppd.

Radeons STILL do not fold well, so use them for something else or if you REALLY want to gpu fold then go with NVIDIA. GTX 460 or 560's are good balance between price/performance and heat/power draw. The 460's are about $140 ($100 on ebay) and once you OC them, will get you about 12K PPD for about 150w draw.

Currently I only fold on CPU's because they are the MOST efficient. (BTW, I will be putting up some GPU farms for sell in the next month or so.) You can build a cheap 2600K build for about $500 ($300 CPU, $100 MB, $100 RAM, HD, PSU.) THe 2600K are guaranteed to OC to 4.2Ghz, and most will easily go to 4.4-4.5GHZ. Some of them can even go to 5GHZ. At 4.4Ghz, they will get you about 35K ppd (on Linux) pull from about 150-200W. Recommend that you get a Hyper 212+ CPU heatsink to help keep the CPU cool. They will drop your CPU temps by about 10 C and they are MUCH quieter than the stock Intel HS.

As you can see, you can fold on CPU rig with same dollar layout, same PPD, BUT 1/3 less watts. For those that have high electricity costs and/or in high temp areas CPU is the preferred method of folding.

SSD only helps on Linux and that is if you install on ext4 vs. ext3. Install wiht ext3 and you won't need an SSD.

[tuigi69]

Originally Posted by Adak

Reminds me of the elitist "pure as the driven snow" attitude of the amateur athletic movement. (aka the Olympics, prior to 1980's).

I don't think of it as "selling out", I think of it as affiliated with, or sponsored by. If the sports teams can do it, and other folding teams have shown it can work, why not try it?

Actually, I was only joking about the selling out. I wish we did have a sponsor so we could get more folks onto the team and get more people folding. EVGA has done a really good job with theirs.

[petteyg359]

Is an hour TPF on P2684 worthwhile, or should I put it back on just -smp 8 (where it was doing about 10K PPD)?

[Wicked_Pixie]

Thanks for the explanation, Adak. I suppose the SSD can be exchanged for a
2600K.


Thanks cultie! It's good to be back.
I was running 930 between 4.0-4.2Ghz when I had them up and running last.
Hopefully I can do the same during summer, or go slower.



@ tuigi69: I folded -bigadv units before on X5650 & i7's, but very briefly
before I had to ubruptly stopped folding. I was just confused with the ext. 3
vs. ext. 4 issue/SSD in native Linux. Thanks to everyone who cleared this for me and saved me some $$. You guys

Since I cannot go native linux on either of the 2 PCs, VM is my only solution.
While it is nice to have SSD, I don't think I really *need* it. So I may have to
return it and get something else... or stand-by for socket 2011. Decisions. Decisions.



Thanks for the welcome, y'all.



BTW, my shipment got stuck in limbo and won't get it until Monday.
It sucks cos I took half the day off so I can get them up by this weekend.
Now I have nothing to do for the next 6.5hrs.

[ihrsetrdr]

Originally Posted by HayesK

Guess you are not running bigadv, else you would be aware of the problem with ext4 causing extra long delay at the end of bigadv wu, which is not experienced on ext3 or ntfs. Apparently SSD drives are fast enough to overcome the ext4 delayed write issue. Plenty of info out there in OCF and elsewhere...

Friends don't let friends run ext4.

Edit- I'm not a 'file system' guy, as I just do typical desktop computing, and don't have any favorite file system; ext 3 still does me right, I've not seen any compelling reason to go with ext4 .

[Wicked_Pixie]

Originally Posted by Adak

The popular Ubuntu 11.04 uses the ext4 file system, by default.


ext3 (or NTFS file system on Windows), is just fine.

I installed Ubuntu 11.04 alongside windows (same partition) since I was having trouble with VM. Now, does that mean it still defaults to ext.4 when it got repartitioned even though the disc is NTFS?
Is there a way to not have it default to ext. 4 when installing?

I guess I'll find out when the WU finishes and takes over an hr to write the stuff.

[deadlysyn]

I think a front page presence would help the cause a lot. The hard part is getting the team motivated to do some writing. Some of you may remember there was a contest a while back. That turned into one article being written. Overclockers.com gets a lot of traffic, and if we can increase our presence there, we may see our numbers rise. The more awareness we can bring to light, the better. My very good friend AmbientFiction has also recently written a very good setup guide for the front page, I just need to get the time to work on getting it better formatted, since something was lost going from a PM to Wordpress.

I do also know that Overclockers does have a relationship with some manufacturers, I will see if I can talk with IMOG about seeing if one of them might be willing to sponsor us.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Wicked_Pixie

I installed Ubuntu 11.04 alongside windows (same partition) since I was having trouble with VM. Now, does that mean it still defaults to ext.4 when it got repartitioned even though the disc is NTFS?
Is there a way to not have it default to ext. 4 when installing?

I guess I'll find out when the WU finishes and takes over an hr to write the stuff.

You mean on the same HD and sharing the same mbr, I guess. AFAIK, Ubuntu 11.04 uses only Linux disk format protocols, although it will recognize and read from NTFS, and maybe write to it, after giving you a warning that it may not be fully compatible with it. Your choices are ext3 and ext4.

Choose Custom Install from the setup options, if it doesn't give you a choice by default. Crazy, I just had 11.04 installed for the CC, and now I've switched back to Win7 to do some SETI and Rosetta crunching, and already I've forgotten the details of how I set up Ubuntu to use ext4.

@Gixxerguy, SFU travels a lot, and hasn't been home much. Apparently, he's busier than a one armed paper hanger. That's what he was telling us in May and June.

[Wicked_Pixie]

Originally Posted by deadlysyn

I do also know that Overclockers does have a relationship with some manufacturers, I will see if I can talk with IMOG about seeing if one of them might be willing to sponsor us.

I wonder if OCF has any relationships w/ retailers like Newegg. They're vendor agnostic which is really great, and they have most everything we all need. With OCF benching, F@H, and other DC teams, maybe we have a better chance in landing a sponsor. Wishful thinking, I know...

Originally Posted by Adak

You mean on the same HD and sharing the same mbr, I guess. AFAIK, Ubuntu 11.04 uses only Linux disk format protocols, although it will recognize and read from NTFS, and maybe write to it, after giving you a warning that it may not be fully compatible with it. Your choices are ext3 and ext4.

Choose Custom Install from the setup options, if it doesn't give you a choice by default. Crazy, I just had 11.04 installed for the CC, and now I've switched back to Win7 to do some SETI and Rosetta crunching, and already I've forgotten the details of how I set up Ubuntu to use ext4.

Yes, it's sharing the same MBR. It didn't give me any warnings nor a choice in using ext.3 or ext. 4 ( if it did, then I missed it ) It's ok. I will have to make changes in my set-up anyway - a couple of dedicated bigadv folders in native Linux and my gaming rig will have to go to other DC teams... see you in Seti/Rosetta as soon as I get everything done. It will be a little while longer. I have to find cases ( no longer allowed to set-up ghetto rigs w/ no cases)

[Adak]

Having cases is probably a good thing. Keeps the toddlers and curious pets away from the moving parts and power.

I just finished up with SETI and Rosetta also for this year. I'm re-doing some hardware right now, and then I'll be doing FAH and World Community Grid.

I believe you have to choose the Custom Install, if you don't want ext4, with that version of Ubuntu.

[AMD_OCER]

Doh!!! ext4

I setup a new 2600K @ 4757mhz and was happy to see the ~30 min tpf on a 6900wu..... then was like WTF is it sitting at 100% for an hour... the log was sitting at Done.... So HURRY up then and send it!!!!

Then I remembered reading about ext4 causing that...

re-installing 11.04 with ext3 now. Maybe this should be in a new thread

[harlam357]

Hate to keep this discussion going in this thread.... but, I have Ubuntu 10.10 VMs running on ext4 and the write times at the end of the WUs seem just fine.

Is ext4 only an issue on 11.04?

Here's an example:

Code:

[07:07:03] Completed 245000 out of 250000 steps  (98%)
[07:40:41] Completed 247500 out of 250000 steps  (99%)
[08:14:02] Completed 250000 out of 250000 steps  (100%)
[08:14:11] DynamicWrapper: Finished Work Unit: sleep=10000
[08:14:21] 
[08:14:21] Finished Work Unit:
[08:14:21] - Reading up to 52713120 from "work/wudata_01.trr": Read 52713120
[08:14:22] trr file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] - Reading up to 47026964 from "work/wudata_01.xtc": Read 47026964
[08:14:22] xtc file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] edr file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] logfile size: 195270
[08:14:22] Leaving Run
[08:14:23] - Writing 100105302 bytes of core data to disk...
[08:14:24]   ... Done.
[08:15:13] - Shutting down core
[08:15:13] 
[08:15:13] Folding@home Core Shutdown: FINISHED_UNIT
[08:15:27] CoreStatus = 64 (100)
[08:15:27] Unit 1 finished with 62 percent of time to deadline remaining.
[08:15:27] Updated performance fraction: 0.616559
[08:15:27] Sending work to server
[08:15:27] Project: 6900 (Run 3, Clone 9, Gen 13)


[08:15:27] + Attempting to send results [July 21 08:15:27 UTC]
[08:15:27] - Reading file work/wuresults_01.dat from core
[08:15:28]   (Read 100105302 bytes from disk)
[08:15:28] Connecting to http://130.237.232.141:8080/
[08:22:40] Posted data.
[08:22:40] Initial: 0000; - Uploaded at ~226 kB/s
[08:22:40] - Averaged speed for that direction ~226 kB/s
[08:22:40] + Results successfully sent
[08:22:40] Thank you for your contribution to Folding@Home.
[08:22:40] + Number of Units Completed: 13

[petteyg359]

Originally Posted by harlam357

Hate to keep this discussion going in this thread.... but, I have Ubuntu 10.10 VMs running on ext4 and the write times at the end of the WUs seem just fine.

Is ext4 only an issue on 11.04?

Here's an example:

Code:

[07:07:03] Completed 245000 out of 250000 steps  (98%)
[07:40:41] Completed 247500 out of 250000 steps  (99%)
[08:14:02] Completed 250000 out of 250000 steps  (100%)
[08:14:11] DynamicWrapper: Finished Work Unit: sleep=10000
[08:14:21] 
[08:14:21] Finished Work Unit:
[08:14:21] - Reading up to 52713120 from "work/wudata_01.trr": Read 52713120
[08:14:22] trr file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] - Reading up to 47026964 from "work/wudata_01.xtc": Read 47026964
[08:14:22] xtc file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] edr file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] logfile size: 195270
[08:14:22] Leaving Run
[08:14:23] - Writing 100105302 bytes of core data to disk...
[08:14:24]   ... Done.
[08:15:13] - Shutting down core
[08:15:13] 
[08:15:13] Folding@home Core Shutdown: FINISHED_UNIT
[08:15:27] CoreStatus = 64 (100)
[08:15:27] Unit 1 finished with 62 percent of time to deadline remaining.
[08:15:27] Updated performance fraction: 0.616559
[08:15:27] Sending work to server
[08:15:27] Project: 6900 (Run 3, Clone 9, Gen 13)


[08:15:27] + Attempting to send results [July 21 08:15:27 UTC]
[08:15:27] - Reading file work/wuresults_01.dat from core
[08:15:28]   (Read 100105302 bytes from disk)
[08:15:28] Connecting to http://130.237.232.141:8080/
[08:22:40] Posted data.
[08:22:40] Initial: 0000; - Uploaded at ~226 kB/s
[08:22:40] - Averaged speed for that direction ~226 kB/s
[08:22:40] + Results successfully sent
[08:22:40] Thank you for your contribution to Folding@Home.
[08:22:40] + Number of Units Completed: 13

I'm on ext4 (Gentoo), and noticed a long delay on a 2684, but the 6900s have no delay. Are 2684 units exponentially larger, or did somebody just bug something up in the core for final writing on 2684 units?

[Wicked_Pixie]

Originally Posted by petteyg359

I'm on ext4 (Gentoo), and noticed a long delay on a 2684, but the 6900s have no delay. Are 2684 units exponentially larger, or did somebody just bug something up in the core for final writing on 2684 units?

I have the opposite experience, but then again I cannot compare it to 26xx WUs.

I see delays in 6903 on ext4 (10.10 & 11.04) up to 1.5hrs. The latest one was almost 2hrs! I cannot change the ext file system on custom installation. Just gives me the option to resize the partition.

I think I'll try VM now, or maybe v7.

[Adak]

That ext file system change didn't work??

I'll get you step by step directions!

Well, Linux is not well known for step by step directions, but this describes how to make that change, (in a typically verbose manner). :

This is an install guide, but the info on selecting your file system, is in it.

Here is a rough guide to installing.
During the install setup process select various things pertinent to your location. IE Time zone and keyboard and language.
In the where to install screen optons are there to install side by side with other OS, use the whole drive (this wipes everything off). The last option here is called Something Else, in this one you get to choose which drive and partition to use. If you choose to use the partition that already has an EXT3 or 4 file system on in the box with Do Not Use change this to EXT4 tick the small box to format and then in the box Use as select / . if you have separate partitions for /boot /swap and /home these will need to be formatted as well. Click okay/forward/continue. A warning box will appear about losing data and changes being written to disk. Clicking Accept also mean these changes cannot be undone and the install goes ahead. After a while a prompt about Grub should appear accept the default unless you have an esoteric disk arrangement and want/need Grub somewhere else. A short while after this a prompt to reboot shows. Click okay.
If the install was from a CD you have chance to eject it.
If from USB you will need to change bios settings to put the USB after the hard drive. Voila a brand new install of Ubuntu.

Back-tracking slightly... If you already have an EXTx (x= 2,3 or 4) there is no need to format unless you want a clean install or if you change the EXT.

[harlam357]

Originally Posted by petteyg359

I'm on ext4 (Gentoo), and noticed a long delay on a 2684, but the 6900s have no delay. Are 2684 units exponentially larger, or did somebody just bug something up in the core for final writing on 2684 units?

Have a p2684 going on an i7 930. Couple days before it's done... will have to try and remember to check the log this weekend.

[Wicked_Pixie]

Thanks for the ext3 tutorial, adak!
I'll give it a go after I finish re-building it.


Sorry for the hijack!! I didn't think it would go this far.

[turbohans]

Good thing I stuck with ext3 on my system!


When I installed a couple months ago all I had was a Ubuntu 8.04 disk and no blanks to burn a new one (11.04) so I just installed on ext3 and dist-upgrade'd it a few times hahaha