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Need some Input on a NAS build and setup

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anwar1337

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
:confused:
Hey everyone, I tried searching for guides on NAS but I havent found one definitive guide that lays out all the different options and abilities of a NAS.

I would like to build my own instead of buying a ready-made NAS.

I have an iMac, Macbook Pro, and 2 Windows PC's that I would like to be able to access the NAS. First off, I dont understand what filesystem to use that will allow the Windows and OSX (Lion & Snow Leopard) to access the NAS HDD's simultaneously.

I want to store my Movies (4-10GB per file) and Music and Photos on my NAS. I also want to be able to use it as a backup destination for my iMac by having OSX create an image file of my whole HDD in the iMac on the NAS.

I don't know what RAID to use, but I want to use one so that if one drive fails, I will still have my data. I dont remember which one that is, 1 or 0, but I'm sure there are better options out there that I dont know of.

I plan on using 4 drives in the beginning but want it to be future proof in the sense that the RAID card can handle 8 Drives, so I can add another RAID Array a few years later. (Is that possible?)

What I have chosen so far is :

Case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352004

Mobo/CPU/GPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131732

RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134492

PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371045

HDD's: 4x
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148506

PCI Express RAID CARD:
No Idea!!!


Please let me know if there is anything better (economically speaking) I can use!

This thing will be on 24/7!!
 
First, a bit of information on a NAS. The filesystem of a NAS is not exposed to the network. This means it is different than accessing files on your local computer. On your system, if you request a file, it looks it up in the inode table and pulls the information from the sectors themselves. When you request a file from a NAS, it simply says "send me this file h:\path\file.iso". Because of this, multiple computers can connect to this share and it shouldn't matter what OS you use to serve/connect with. So, you could be running a Linux/Windows server with Mac, Windows and Linux clients. That being said, the file system has nothing to do with the clients.

I'm running my linux server (CentOS 5.6) with two EXT4 formatted RAID arrays. I share via a service called "Samba". My clients are mostly linux (Fedora 14, at the moment), but do include Windows (XP, Vista and 7) and a lone MacBook Pro. They have absolutely no issues with reading files and I've been doing this for over 2 years.

--------------------

Operating system:
What operating system do you intend to use for the server? If this is something that you want for "set and forget" storage, I would suggest Windows, preferably the "Home Server" edition. If you are looking to learn a bit and don't mind tinkering, I would highly suggest a Linux flavor. There is also the option of a "NAS operating system", such as FreeNAS. As the name suggests, it is free.

Case:
This would be a better choice and you can fit a crazy amount of drives in it if you are crazy like me. The picture linked was my server a long time ago. The case is cheap, well designed and well ventilated.

Hard drives:
For storage, I would suggest these. You can get 8 of the Hitachi drives at the same price as 4 of those Seagate drives. At very least, it saves you a large chunk of money. If you are getting a real hardware RAID controller, do not get any Western Digital Green/Blue/Black drives or any Seagate Green drives. These will cause you massive issues, as the disks will constantly drop out of the array. Any Hitachi or Samsung drive should work fine.

Motherboard/processor:
If you are going to use this purely for storage, what you have selected is fine. If you are going to use it for rendering, a testing environment or anything that uses the processor heavily, I would suggest using a full blown processor and board.

RAID level:
This depends on how many drives you will have and what you are using it for. If this is simply storage, RAID 5/6 will work fine. If you are going to be hammering the drive hard (virtual machines, databases, etc), then RAID 10 will work better. For light use storage, I would suggest RAID 5 for 3-5 drives and RAID 6 for anything more than that. RAID 5 will allow for one drive to fail and RAID 6 for two to fail without catastrophic data loss.

RAID card:
This one is a bit interesting and depends quite a lot on what you need now and what you may do in the future. If you aren't going to ever have more than 8 drives, I would suggest a Dell Perc 5/i. These can be had under $100 and is full blown hardware RAID. I wrote an article on the front page for mine and there are very good threads on the internet. If you are going to have more than 8 drives, this gets tricky and a lot more expensive. See my post here about how I solved this. Scroll down from that post for cool pictures.

--------------------

So, to help, answer these:

What do you intend to use the server for now, and in the future?
--Is the sever purely for storage, and nothing else? Streaming content (watching movies, listening to music, backing up) counts as "storage".
How many hard drives do you plan on having now, and in the future?
What is your budget for a RAID card?
 
First, a bit of information on a NAS. The filesystem of a NAS is not exposed to the network. This means it is different than accessing files on your local computer. On your system, if you request a file, it looks it up in the inode table and pulls the information from the sectors themselves. When you request a file from a NAS, it simply says "send me this file h:\path\file.iso". Because of this, multiple computers can connect to this share and it shouldn't matter what OS you use to serve/connect with. So, you could be running a Linux/Windows server with Mac, Windows and Linux clients. That being said, the file system has nothing to do with the clients.

So I will be able to enable Time Machine (OSX App that accesses a local or Network disk to backup the whole primary drive hourly) perfectly fine?

I have a q6600 C2Quad/Abit IN9-32x-Max/4GB Ram/8800 GTS 640MB, I know that its overkill but I am thinking of turning this into the NAS. The only thing is the PSU is 700Watts. I wonder how much electricity this computer will draw if only the HDD's are running with Ubuntu, and nothing else.

As far as the RAID Card, the Dell Perc seems great if it can support 8 drives. If I buy 4-6 drives right now, can I add to the array to make it bigger or will I have to wipe it clean and rebuild the array?

RAID-6 sounds the best for my situation because these are precious files, and having the cushion of up to 2 drives failing is better than 1. I plan on just streaming (Movies Music Photos) and Backing up to this NAS, that is all, nothing else.

I was thinking of using Ubuntu Server. With that, is a hardware raid any better than software raid??
 
So I will be able to enable Time Machine (OSX App that accesses a local or Network disk to backup the whole primary drive hourly) perfectly fine?
I honestly have no idea on this. If it simply puts the file on a network drive, then it should work without issue.


I have a q6600 C2Quad/Abit IN9-32x-Max/4GB Ram/8800 GTS 640MB, I know that its overkill but I am thinking of turning this into the NAS. The only thing is the PSU is 700Watts. I wonder how much electricity this computer will draw if only the HDD's are running with Ubuntu, and nothing else.
It will only pull as much as it needs. A power supply does not "push" power to the devices, the devices pulls power. Meaning, if your computer takes 300 watts, the power supply is only giving out 300 watts.


As far as the RAID Card, the Dell Perc seems great if it can support 8 drives. If I buy 4-6 drives right now, can I add to the array to make it bigger or will I have to wipe it clean and rebuild the array?
I never tried this, so I'm not sure if it allows expanding the array.


With that, is a hardware raid any better than software raid??
That depends on your definition of "better". Software RAID is more difficult to setup if you don't know what you are doing and depends on the operating system to function. This means the processor is used for parity calculations. It will be substantially slower than a full blown hardware RAID card, but it should be able to sustain gigabit network speeds without much trouble. Software RAID is able to expand arrays (RAID 5/6 will, RAID 10 will not at the moment), along with more expensive RAID cards (i.e. not the Perc 5/i). With software RAID, you have to supply the SATA ports, and these cards can be surprisingly expensive. A PCI 4 port SATA card can be $50+. So, for 8 ports, you are already at the cost of a Perc 5/i controller.

Personally, I run a fairly nice hardware RAID controller with a SAS expander so I can fill my server up.
 
The time machine thing is something I've been dealing with recently. It seems it has an Issue with samba shares. Plenty of guides on the net about how to do it (create a sparsebundle and put it on the nas) but I've not been able to get it to work reliably.

As for OS, ubuntu server will be fine. I had mine set up this way before it crashed (still trying to figure out exactly what hardware failed.) Take a look at my post where thid helped me a ton. (Also cool pictures in there too.)

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=679192

I wound up on Windows home server 2011. (Thideras just shot me) I couldn't get ubuntu to install on my new hardware, and some other linux flavors left a bad taste in my mouth, or wouldn't install as well. Server 1011 was simple and cheap. I'm putting together a test box to get back into *nix though.
 
I didnt see in ur post..perhaps I read to fast...do u have a specific reason why u wanna build one?

Times have changes and alot of awesome nas units are on the market right now
 
I didnt see in ur post..perhaps I read to fast...do u have a specific reason why u wanna build one?

Times have changes and alot of awesome nas units are on the market right now

The way I see it, paying 300-400 for a 4 Bay RAID NAS enclosure is not worth it. I cant even add more than 4HDD's in the future which is what I want to do, so that alone makes me not want to buy a readymade NAS.
 
Ok...so For about $200 You can get (4) 1.5TB Drives

Leaving you with $400....I would suggest RAID 5 the problem is a good raid controller is gonna run upwords of 300+ unless you opt for unboard raid. Most newer motherboards have raid 5 but those usually cost about 160$ 200$

so the budget is pretty small....correct me if I am wrong...but i think some would agree.

what you're asking "future proof" raid card you're looking at 1500$
My nas cost me 700$ for unit and another 200$ for drives. However I opted to go with a unit that runs linux under the good and uses ajax for gui.

you would have to cut corners. maybe smaller drives? 640gb?
 
so the budget is pretty small....correct me if I am wrong...but i think some would agree.

what you're asking "future proof" raid card you're looking at 1500$
My nas cost me 700$ for unit and another 200$ for drives. However I opted to go with a unit that runs linux under the good and uses ajax for gui.
I disagree with this. Here is what I paid for my server's storage hardware:

LSI 8708EM2 RAID card - $270
HP SAS Expander - $270
2x 8087 to 8087 cable - $15
5x 8087 to SATA cables - $50
-----------
~$605

That gives me 28 hard drive that I can do RAID on before I have to add another HP SAS expander and it would double the number of drives it can handle.
 
He said his budget was 600$ (look at his first post)

Case:
*u didnt add that*


Mobo/CPU/GPU:
*u didnt add that*

RAM:
*u didnt add that*

PSU:
*u didnt add that*

HDD's: 4x
*u didnt add that*

That's over ^$600


********************

I disagree with this. Here is what I paid for my server's storage hardware:

LSI 8708EM2 RAID card - $270
HP SAS Expander - $270
2x 8087 to 8087 cable - $15
5x 8087 to SATA cables - $50
-----------
~$605

That gives me 28 hard drive that I can do RAID on before I have to add another HP SAS expander and it would double the number of drives it can handle.
 
He said his budget was 600$ (look at his first post)

<snip>

That's over ^$600


********************
No need to get snippy. I realize this, but the SAS expander and the cables aren't needed if you want 8 drives. I suggested it because it is a good RAID card that is fairly cheap and offers expandability in the future, if he wishes to add it. I don't see the problem with this. Getting a good controller now, even if you have to spend a bit more than budget or cut other parts, is well worth it. It will prevent issues in the future and keeps the door open for a lot of options.

Almost forgot this, but he mentioned he had a Q6600 system, which would cover the process/RAM/motherboard. That cuts the cost substantially.

I have a q6600 C2Quad/Abit IN9-32x-Max/4GB Ram/8800 GTS 640MB, I know that its overkill but I am thinking of turning this into the NAS
 
I think the setup is awesome...I am not denying that. However I am trying to keep the thread on track. He said he has a budge of 600$ Now your suggestion doesnt include hard drives or a case or a psu or memory.....

if you add that on top of what u suggested he is looking at 300$-400$ for a decent build.

Now if he had said "my budget is 2000$" well thats a diff story.

EDIT: Just saw the Quote

WEll lets wait for him to chime in shall we ? :)
 
Last edited:
Then my original suggestion of a Dell Perc 5/i stands. I'm simply giving options. His budget might change depending on what is available. I'm not suggesting parts because they are awesome.

EDIT: Yup, waiting is best.
 
I have an unRAID server. It is basically a software approach to "RAID", but w/o the problems of RAID.

http://lime-technology.com/home/87-for-system-builders

It's a linux based very-simple OS that resides on a flash drive. It does cost $120 for the pro version of the software (up to 21 HDDs), but it's a lifetime license and there is good support from the developer and on their forums.

http://lime-technology.com/forum/

New versions are always being released and they now support 4k sectors and 3+TB drives. You can run the free version with up to 3 HDDs to test it out and see if you like it.

The benefits of unRAID include the ability to use cheap hardware (no fancy RAID cards required), and easily expand the array using any sized HDDs. 1 HDD is dedicated to parity, so you can lose 1 HDD w/o losing any data, and if you lose another drive during the rebuild you only lose the data on that 1 HDD as opposed to the entire array like you would in RAID5. Another benefit is that data is stored on individual drives instead of being striped. This means that if you only need to access data on 1 HDD it will just spin-up that 1 drive. So, it can save on power too.

I built my server back in late '08 for super-cheap:

open-box P45 mobo w/ 8 SataII ports - $60
E5200 CPU - $60
4GB DDR2 - $40
PCIex1 2-port SataII card - $15
PCI 4-port SataII card - $30

This gives me 14 ports, but my case will only hold 12 HDDs. This is what I want anyway, as I don't want to put more than 2 HDDs on the PCI bus due to the bottleneck.

As my storage needs increased I just added drives until my case was full. Now I just replace drives w/ larger drives as the need arises. This is also good b/c it's not a good idea to buy all your HDDs at once, and you get the benefit of being able to spread that cost out over time. Jumping in w/ 5 or 10 2TB drives is all good, but it takes a while to fill that space. By the time that happens you could have gotten many of those HDDs a lot cheaper, and the staggered nature of the purchasing lowers the chance of multiple HDD failures at similar times.
 
I didn't say you were......

Then my original suggestion of a Dell Perc 5/i stands. I'm simply giving options. His budget might change depending on what is available. I'm not suggesting parts because they are awesome.

EDIT: Yup, waiting is best.
 
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