Planning Simple and Quiet Build

I'm new to water cooling and new to the site. I used to build my own systems when I was in high school, even used to build 4x86 and Pentium based systems for free by dumpster diving around tech companies in my hometown (Palo Alto, CA). However I became a laptop guy when I joined the military and so for a little over 10 years I was too transient to have a desktop. Now that I'm finally back in the USA with more long-term digs, I have a netbook for moving about, and a now defunct Alienware laptop that I plan on replacing with a simple quiet gaming capable rig.

My benchmark for the build is BF3. If I can get BF3 running on highest settings at 1080p I'm happy. I used to play BF2 on my Alienware lappy to work out some good times nostalgia. I vastly prefer the (relatively) more realistic BF to the preteen frag-fest that is MW. With the release of BF3 I think its time I catch up to the times. However I need whatever I build to be reasonably quiet because there is limited space in my house and the location where I can put a desktop is not acoustically isolated from where my GF studies, works, and eats.

Having read the sticky tread intro article several times I think that I am sufficiently educated to propose a build that might pass muster. Here is what I'm thinking of putting together. I'd appreciate any feedback or constructive criticism.

System Loads (incomplete)
PSU: CORSAIR Professional Series HX850 850W
MB: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO
CPU: Intel i7 2600K 1155
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 590 Classified Hydro Copper
RAM: 8GB (2x4GB) Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600

Case: SILVERSTONE Fortress Series FT02B-W
3x180mm intake fans on bottom
1x120mm exhaust fan on top

Cooling loop
The plan was to have a single loop cooling the CPU and the GPU. I also figured that it would be more effective if the heat loads were connected in parallel with a Y-fitting on either end of them.

CPU water blocks: EK-Supreme HF (all copper)
GPU water blocks: (included with GPU)
Pump: liang DDC5
Reservoir: XSPC Tank Reservoir for Laing D5 / MCP655
Radiator: XSPC RX360 3x120mm Rev 2
Fans: 3x YATE LOON 120mm Case Fan - D12SL-12??
Fittings: Bitpower chrome G1/4" Barb Fitting 1/2" ID
Y-Fittings: 2x Bitspower G1/4" Matte Black Y Block - (BP-MBYB)

Request
I have a few specific questions that some of you may be able to help me with. Thanks in advance for any consideration you give me.

1. Does anyone have any experience with this case? It comes with 3 big intake fans on the bottom of the case, could I simply use the stock fans? If the case is setup with 180mm intake fans, would a 2x180mm radiator be more practical than a 3x120mm? at 180mm radiator size, options seem pretty slim.

2. Is a single-loop parallel heat load system practical? I was presuming that reducing the flow resistance is a good thing, but is it better to just have the loads in series?

3. Is the system overkill for what I'm trying to do? Should I be saving money somewhere. Total system costs are standing around $3.5k

Thanks

First, you'll want more radiator if you want to run it quiet. Figure out your heatload calculations, in the sticky, it's called DT.

In the sticky is MUCH info about series/parellel. Guess you missed it.

Low speed fans, nope get the mediums. Also look up Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP15's. Better.

You mention barbs but no STAINLESS HOSE CLAMPS. I see a LOT more barbs needed too. Get rid of the ones that come with stuff.

What is a Laing DDC5? Never heard of it.

Glad you're here!

2) It's better to have the blocks in series. Flowrate is key here. Reducing the resistance is nice, but the point of reducing resistance is to increase flow through the blocks, so it's kind of self-defeating to put them in parallel.

3) There's some places to save cash. I bet that video card is expensive, and I wonder if you could get a better deal buying a lesser card and a separate waterblock. You could also step down to the 2500K instead of the 2600K and save some money there without a big performance hit. You don't need a reservoir, just some fittings from Home Depot to make a T-line.

Save another $30 on the waterblock: http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-Apogee-XT-Extreme-Performance-CPU-waterblock-Rev-2-pr-4814.html

I think Conundrum is right about needing more radiator, but it depends on your heatload. If you're not going to be pushing it with the overclocking, you might be able to get away with just a 3x120mm and low speed fans. Your temps will be a bit high, though. It would be nice if you could find another 120mm fan's worth of space.

The D12SL-12's are great fans at the price for a quiet build. They're what I use in my case and on my radiator. Not top performers, but for the price they can't be beat.

add a 240 rad to the 360 and you'll be good to go. I'd prolly get a GTX 580 or 2 570's. I've got an i7 950 and 2 570's and I play on max settings @ 60 FPS. I've got a 360 and 240 cooling everything with my cpu at 4.0 GHz.

Thanks for all the input.

First off the pump I am considering is the Liang D5. please disregard the earlier typo. and yes I couldn't find the series vs. parallel discussion in the stickies. I really looked for it, but I'm obviously looking in the wrong place.

Second, I should mention that I don't intend to overclock the GPU at all for now and would only push the CPU to about 3.8 - 4 GHz so vcore no higher than 1.26v for now. FWIU this implies a heat load of just under 115W. To provide some head room I am assuming incorrectly that the radiator will be dissipating 100% of the heat (I don't know how much is lost through the air in the case and conducted through other pathways and radiated).

The GPU (GTX 590) has a 365W tdp. so the combined thermal load of the loop would be about 480W. Which according to skinnee labs testing of the XSPC RX360 3x120mm Rev 2 would result in a DT of just under 10 degree (c) with the Yate Loon fans running at 1400rpm and the pump pushing the water at a rate of 1.5gpm. I know 10degrees isn't ideal but it is acceptable, right?

The Gentle Tyhpoon fans seem like winners too. They seem to be able to push a lot more air than a standard fan at similar rpms and at much lower noise levels. thanks for the suggestion.

Revised Cooling loop
CPU water blocks: EK-Supreme HF (all copper) or an alternative
GPU water blocks: (included with GPU)
Pump: liang D5
Reservoir: XSPC Tank Reservoir for Laing D5 / MCP655
Radiator: XSPC RX360 3x120mm Rev 2
Fans: 3x Gentle Typhoon 120mm Fan 1450RPM (AP-14)

I suppose the pertinent questions are:
1. can the system I listed maintain a flow rate greater than 1.5gpm
2. is the FT02 just going to be a headache? I feel like ideally I would have the radiator mounted externally to the back of the case, but I'm trying not to get into the kind of case modding that would require me to go out and purchase tools that I would hardly ever use.

Ideally I see this as a long term evolving system. I figure without overclocking, the one loop may be just enough to run this machine nice and quiet. Then in the future I could add a second loop once it becomes useful to overclock and add a second GPU so that the CPU would run overclocked on this loop and the GPUs together on another. As far as planning ahead, that means having a case with internal space or external mounting for at least 2 3x120mm rads.

First off the pump I am considering is the Liang D5. please disregard the earlier typo. and yes I couldn't find the series vs. parallel discussion in the stickies. I really looked for it, but I'm obviously looking in the wrong place.

Click to expand...

No worries! That's a good pump.

The radiator will dissipate pretty close to 100% of the heat. There's no surface area elsewhere, really, to dump it.

10C is acceptable to me. With ambient in the room at ~25C, a delta of 40C between the block and the CPU, that puts you at temps of around 75C. It's a bit hot but it's not going to hurt anything. In practice I would imagine your temps would be a bit lower.

The gentle typhoon fans are popular for this sort of thing. I haven't switched to them yet because my radiator setup is a bit atypical and they're expensive fans, but they're a great choice.

1) Probably close. It depends on how restrictive the GPU block is.
2) Not sure. But having the ability to mount two 3x120mm rads in the future is a big plus. That would give you a lot of room for expansion. And you wouldn't need to create two loops - I would just add the second radiator to the single loop and call it good.

You don't need a 1.5 GPM flow rate, your loop parts will not hurt the flowrate at all, your not overstressing your flow rate.

Mor, where is that nice graph you had showing the 1C diff between 1.0 GPM and 1.5 GPM on 4 of the most popular blocks?

Sounds like the general advice is that I should have at least a little more rad in there. At least 120x1 or even better a 120x2. I know where the 120x3 would go in the case, but I'm not sure where else I can fit any more. There is one 120x1 fan at the top of the case, but If a radiator is covering that, then the water cooling may reduce the effectiveness of the air-cooling (plus the top rad would have air blowing through it that has already been heated by the first rad and the MB, RAM, etc. Maybe that wouldn't be an issue but it seems inefficient to me. Although if I'm using the Gentle Typhoon fans with low FPI rads, maybe the total airflow for the air-cooled bits is still sufficient while staying quiet.

Sounds like I'll be looking for a different case. Any recommendations for a reasonably priced case that can mount a 360 and 240 comfortably with the GT fans?

Since the NVIDIA Kepler GPU's are supposed to be coming out in the next couple months, I'm tempted to wait for the first round of those before pulling the trigger.

Reasonably priced? Corsair 800D. It is reasonable. To me.

And I'm waiting too for the next round of CPU and GPU.

Ok, my build costs were starting to get out of hand, so I started looking at ways to bring them down. First thing I did is that I decided to nix the GTX 590. Its no at all an economical purchase. Since Quality BF3 at 1080p is my build reference, I realized from the tom's hardware article: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/battlefield-3-graphics-performance,3063-7.html
That a single GTX 570 is an excellent card for the value and also probably the lower threshold of firepower necessary for running the game on ultra settings.

This means that my heat load with a 2600k at 4GHz and an un-boosted GTX 570 is down to 334W from 480W. With three Gentle Typhoon 120mm Fan (AP-15s) on a fan controller pulling air through a single XSPC RX360 3x120mm Rev 2 I shouldn't have to worry about TDs above 7 degrees C. With the GT fans I could also go with a radiator with a higher FPI.

I think with this approach, I can get into the kind of case modding that I would need to do to fit another rad (240 or 360) after I've had a chance to get a feel for the equipment better. I don't want to be too far ahead of my learning curve.

So the new plan is this:
CPU water blocks: EK-Supreme HF (all copper) or an alternative
GPU water blocks: Heatkiller GPU-X³ GTX 570 / 580 Reference Design Full Coverage Block (15510)
Pump: liang D5
Reservoir: XSPC Tank Reservoir for Laing D5 / MCP655
Radiator: XSPC RX360 3x120mm Rev 2
Fans: 3x Gentle Typhoon 120mm Fan 1450RPM (AP-14)
Fittings: straight barbs w/ hose clamps unless anyone has a good recommendation for cheap and reliable compression fittings.
Fan Controller: Aerocool CoolPanel 3 Color LCD / Multi-Function Panel / 56-in-1 Card Reader

Total system costs around $3k, cooling system is $680 of that. I think I'm going to stick with the FT02, and I may as well go ahead and pull the trigger on this one since I've been hearing that the next gen gpu's won't be hitting the market until Q2 2012. Any thoughts?

the 570 is a nice card. i would go ahead and add a 240 rad to that and be done with it. trust me, you are gonna want the extra bit of rad. I started with a 360 and the next day bought the 240. just saves some time if you don't have to rip the thing apart to add in another rad.

I think you've got a good handle on it. Personally I stay away from full coverage blocks because they're often only good for a single card/PCB design. The other block types are much cheaper and will work for multiple cards, which gives you a nice upgrade path.

There's nothing wrong with starting with the 3x120mm rad and seeing how your temps are. This forum tends to over-recommend radiator space. If you notice that the radiator is quite a bit warmer than ambient temperatures you can expand later.

Is the Bitspower GPU block better than the others? You in the US? Might look at Koolance and Swiftech. Much easier to deal with companies in the US. We just don't see many of those blocks used in the US I guess.

The 1450 RPM GT's will work. My 6 1850 GT's I run at 900 or 1000 RPM (depending what rad) and they are quiet as can be. What I'm saying is, the 1450 is fine, but the 1850 gives you headroom and undervolts to 800 RPM with no problem. It starts at even less RPM.

You look at a higher FPI rad, please go 1850.

Overall, list looks great, your a pleasure to work with and help. Wish all the noobs were as 'researched' as you.

Ohh we mention liquid yet? PHN-Nuke and distilled water.

Hose size? Don't get thin wall. Primochill LRT is the best out there right now.

Conumdrum said:

Is the Bitspower GPU block better than the others? You in the US? Might look at Koolance and Swiftech. Much easier to deal with companies in the US. We just don't see many of those blocks used in the US I guess.

Click to expand...

I must admit that I have not been particularly discerning when it comes to water blocks. I didn't find much info on relative performance of full coverage WBs so I basically just picked a reasonable looking WB off FrozenCPU as a speculative pick, partially for a price reference, hoping that if my pick is problematic someone might point that out for me. After reading skinneelabs comparison of full cover WBs for the GTX 480, I'm reconsidering the brand selection. I assumed that a full cover block would be more straight forward as a beginner, but if anyone feels that it isn't too difficult to install a universal block without much risk of screwing up, I'm open to all options on the blocks.

Conumdrum said:

The 1450 RPM GT's will work. My 6 1850 GT's I run at 900 or 1000 RPM (depending what rad) and they are quiet as can be. What I'm saying is, the 1450 is fine, but the 1850 gives you headroom and undervolts to 800 RPM with no problem. It starts at even less RPM.

Click to expand...

I think you're right about this. I originally didn't plan to have a fan controller, but with the inclusion I think the 1850 GTs are the right ticket.

Conumdrum said:

Ohh we mention liquid yet? PHN-Nuke and distilled water.
Hose size? Don't get thin wall. Primochill LRT is the best out there right now.

Click to expand...

I was planning in getting unadulterated distilled water and using a silver kill coil to keep the medium sterile.

I already had Primochill LRT tubing on the spreadsheet I've been using for cost calculations. So I guess I don't need to doubt that pick. For the fittings I think I'm going to go with simple 1/2" barbs with either Lamptron clamps or cheapo worm drive clamps.

All you WC vets have been extremely helpful, and as exhausting as it has been to get deep enough into the literature on this to feel confident enough to take on this project, I'm become highly motivated towards this project. Thanks to all of you.

I assumed that a full cover block would be more straight forward as a beginner, but if anyone feels that it isn't too difficult to install a universal block without much risk of screwing up, I'm open to all options on the blocks.

Click to expand...

I feel like it's a lot less complicated, personally. Here's what I would do (I'm a Swiftech fan):
http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCW-82-VGA-Cooler-pr-4853.html
Along with...
http://jab-tech.com/Enzotech-Forged-Copper-Low-profile-VGA-Memory-Heatsink-BCC9-pr-3978.html
or
http://jab-tech.com/Enzotech-Forged-Copper-VGA-Memory-Heatsink-BMR-C1-pr-3724.html
Depending on the video card layout. Usually there are RAM sinks underneath the GPU block barbs, so the low profile sinks are a bit more versatile.


Cheapo worm drive clamps FTW! Haven't failed me for the last 8+ years, don't know why they should now.

johan851 said:

I feel like it's a lot less complicated, personally. Here's what I would do (I'm a Swiftech fan):
http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCW-82-VGA-Cooler-pr-4853.html
Along with...
http://jab-tech.com/Enzotech-Forged-Copper-Low-profile-VGA-Memory-Heatsink-BCC9-pr-3978.html
or
http://jab-tech.com/Enzotech-Forged-Copper-VGA-Memory-Heatsink-BMR-C1-pr-3724.html
Depending on the video card layout. Usually there are RAM sinks underneath the GPU block barbs, so the low profile sinks are a bit more versatile.


Cheapo worm drive clamps FTW! Haven't failed me for the last 8+ years, don't know why they should now.

Click to expand...

I agree, unless you get compression fittings, worm drive + barb is the way to go. i love how much easier the worm drive clams are to use than those crappy clamps that you have to squish to open.

I use Lamptron clamps. Very nice. Very tricky, strips easy. Not for your first rig okay?

I am using push clamps that I got at a local ACE hardware store. They were a lot cheaper than what most WC shops sell and they get the job done.

There is nothing wrong with using a D5 as it is a good pump, but I must say that I've been spoiled with this MCP35X pump and a Sunbeam Rheostat 3. The pump and fans are plugged in together and into the MB header such that the PWM signal from the MB fan profile software controls the pump and fans speed. The pump and fans throttle according to CPU temps so that its really quiet when just doing everyday things, and it all throttles up when temps go up.

When it comes to radiators, I too tend to recommend going with more rad rather than less, unless you pick a case and figure out an easy way to add another rad should you choose to. Most people however will get a case and build for only using one rad to find out that trying to add another becomes a major headache.

So I am now very close to buying this system. I think what I will do is buy the system without the WC and then after doing some measurements once I have the main system components, I will buy and install the WC loop.

Case - SILVERSTONE Fortress Series FT02B-W
PSU - CORSAIR Professional Series HX850 850W ATX12V
Motherboard - ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
CPU - Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor
RAM - Kingston HyperX T1 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
HDD - Crucial M4 CT256M4SSD2 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
GPU - EVGA SuperClocked 012-P3-1572-AR GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready
Networking Device - ASUS PCE-N15 PCI Express 300/300Mbps Transfer/Receive Rate Wireless Adapter
Physical Media Drive - SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-222AB
Monitor - Asus VH238H Black 23" Full HD HDMI LED Backlight LCD Monitor w/Speakers
Keyboard - Logitech K750 Black USB RF Wireless Slim solar-powered Keyboard
Mouse - Cyborg CCB437090002/02/1 Black Wireless Laser R.A.T. 9 Mouse

Custom WC components
pump & Reservior - XSPC Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir - w/ Alphacool VPP655 Variable Speed Pump Installed
CPU blocks - Koolance CPU-370
GPU blocks - Coolance VID-NX580 (GeForce GTX 580/570)
Thermal Paste - Prolimatech PK-1 Nano Aluminum Thermal Compound
radiator - XSPC RX360 3x120mm Rev 2
Fans - Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm x 25mm Fan 1850 rpm
tubing - Primochill Pro LRT
Fittings - Bitpower chrome G1/4" Barb Fitting 1/2" ID
Clamps - Stainless Steel Shielded Hose Clamps for 1/2in.OD.Tubing
Fan controller - Aerocool CoolPanel 3 Color LCD / Multi-Function Panel / 56-in-1 Card Reader

I was definitely having serious doubts about the case, but I haven't found a case under $300 that I'd rather use.

Not trying to bump my own thread but I found this video of a FT02 with a SR-1 560 installed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dow8NflZk7w&feature=related

I'm a little impressed and I think that I might move my planned build in that direction. This guy only managed to fit 3 fans on the rad because the GPU card is too long (12.2"). I could fit all 4 with GTX 570s (9"-10.5"). I'm probably only days away from ordering my parts (well I might have to wait until I get back from Japan), but the wait is now killing me. This will be a fun project.

Again, thanks to all for the advice that has been given.