First build workstation/gaming rig

Hi guys... I'm new here...

I need a new rig, but it must be multi-purpose, fun and lots of room to learn & practice on, but it must also handle my school-projects...

With my eye's on the upcoming study-courses I decided to take in the (near) future I decided that it's time to buy/build a new/better system than the one I'm currently using.

I have done some months of research and I ended up with a shopping-list I like to put up for discussion & criticizing first, before buying & feeling sorry afterwards... I usually dream long and hard about buying new stuff (especially for longterm use)...

In the first year of the courses I don't need a high-end workstation, because I will be able to use CS5 at school during the basics-phase, but down the road I will need to get my own workstation that will be capable of running CS5, Blender, After Affects and more of such... And, yes I'm still new with those programs, I've practiced on Elements & Pinnacle Studio 15 for about a year+ now. I thought about buying a Mac Pro (because they have rows of them at school), but after some research I quickly found out this isn't the time to switch to Mac Pro (if ever), and those machine are damn pricey! For that same money I should be able to build a better working system that has far more upgrade & tweak possibilities in the future!

I used to be an active FPS gamer once (long time ago when I was able to play AA v1 up to Overmatch on a 1.8Ghz Core 2 Duo CPU with a single Geforce 7500LE GPU), but nowadays the only game I still like to play sometimes is AA3 (bridgejunky and I haven't tried any of the newer FPS games yet Wich I now run on a Intel i7 2600 CPU and a Asus P8H67-M PRO MoBo with a GT 520 GPU. I would like the new set-up to be able the run BF3 with ease... I would also like to play & learn about over-clocking, and try it myself, so the new rig must be able to allow me to do so. My current MoBo, CPU, RAM and GPU will be installed at my mom's (she now has my old PC:-(

Here is the list I came up with:

PSU: Corsair Pro Series Gold 1200Watt - So I can add more hardware down the road and have room to tune up for gaming and such). I did a test somewhere (can't remember the site, but I filled in how it will be in 1-2 years) and the result was 1080Watt

Case: Carbide Series 500R Mid-Tower Case - I can't seem to find the case's form factor if the PSU-size will fit in the mid-size case? (Feel so newb saying this...)

CPU: Intel i7 2600K

CPU Cooling: Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H100

MoBo: Asus P8P67 WS Revolution

GPU: - Don't know yet, I think it will be Nvidia. (Might be a Quadro 2000 or 4000, don't know whats the best price/performance.)

RAM: - I don't know yet either, haven't figured out how to know what type works best with the P8P67 WS Revolution!? (And have still to read about over-clocking RAM.)

I also think I should have the Win OS on a fast SSD (flash or DRAM?) and use HighRev HDD's for storage. (Still need to read more about this.)

Does anyone have some good & honest advice for me?

Why are you going with an older board? The WS revolution isn't necessary for a workstation just because WS stands for workstation .

The usefulness of having an NF200 for PCIE lane augmentation is questionable IMO. It's still splitting the exact same amount of bandwidth from the CPU at the end of the day.

I'd look at something more recent like a P8Z68-V-Pro Gen 3

Case choice is good IMO. I'm using that case now. It's proven very easy to build in and it's great cooling. Make sure you pick up:
4X140mm fans (2 for the side panel {unless you want to use the stock 200mm side one}, 2 for the pull side of the radiator up top)
1x129mm fan for the floor of the case to suck air in. I say use all the fan mounts you can. They're there.

Get a 16GB 1600Mhz kit. You're doing heavy content creation so you'll want more RAM.
The AX1200 fits. You'll want a larg(er) SSD also.

GPU wise you have to sort of decide what you want. A workstation card handles workstation stuff a bit faster, costs more money and doesn't game as well.

A gaming card is cheaper, games faster and still handles content creation stuff but not as fast.

You're also at a bit of an odd time because new Nvidia cards are coming around the corner as is a replacement for the 2000 series cpus (3000 series) on a new chipset (Z77).

There's also X79 to consider if you haven't. A 3930K>2600K

Only thing I want to add is that it's rare, when building for the future, that it's ever a matter of GOOD timing. There's always some major improvement at the bleeding edge around the corner. The question comes down to whether you really get 30% more power when you spend 30% more for the newer whatever. It's rarely the case, the benefits are usually smaller in the top end gear. The bleeding edge is generally for people who live there (3-6 month upgrade paths) and have large wallets.

My point is that there's really no such thing as completely futureproofing any PC purchase. You are correct to assume flexibility in a PC over a Mac Pro, but aside from that just get the best bang for your buck. Overclocking is generally not recommended if you really really realy expect to be doing important stuff with the machine. You don't see designers at hollywood studios swapping watercooling blocks and doing volt mods, whatever, etc. They're too busy creating content to care if the plugin runs 0.05 seconds faster, and they need zero issues with the machine to meet deadlines. Overclocking only introduces an unknown variable and potential for problems. It's a hobby and should not be mistaken as a risk-free means of making your $1000 computer $500 faster.

I'd aim for a mid level system like what you spec'd, maybe skip SSD for now (can always image/clone the sata drive to a new SSD later). Instead I would have two 64MB Sata2 or newer drives, one with your OS and apps, the other as a data drive. Load it with RAM and quality PSU as ocnoob recommended, get a modest gaming card. Unless you spend through the roof (more than I can see you spending based on your picks) on the entire system you'll never get the latest and greatest games running with everything maxxed, it's not how they're programmed. Use that saved cash for future upgrades, or as an investment in the machine you will be forced to buy in 3 years regardless of what you spend today (because I feel machines are reaching a performance threshold at about 3 years at the current pace of technology). If you could easily afford a top end machine you wouldn't be here asking, you'd just spend now and ask questions later. So if you're like me on a budget, don't shoot that high. You might be surprised at how much you can get done on what most enthusiasts would consider a mediocre machine. I produce complex, often cpu intensive music on an 18 month old computer and don't see any reason I'll need to upgrade it for at least another 18 months.

Just one non-overclocking man's dissenting opinion!

You need 1200w only if you want to do trisli/trifire.

Pinky said:

Only thing I want to add is that it's rare, when building for the future, that it's ever a matter of GOOD timing. There's always some major improvement at the bleeding edge around the corner. The question comes down to whether you really get 30% more power when you spend 30% more for the newer whatever. It's rarely the case, the benefits are usually smaller in the top end gear. The bleeding edge is generally for people who live there (3-6 month upgrade paths) and have large wallets.

My point is that there's really no such thing as completely futureproofing any PC purchase. You are correct to assume flexibility in a PC over a Mac Pro, but aside from that just get the best bang for your buck. Overclocking is generally not recommended if you really really realy expect to be doing important stuff with the machine. You don't see designers at hollywood studios swaping watercooling blocks and doing volt mods. They're too busy creating content to care if the plugin runs 0.05 seconds faster, and they need zero issues with the machine to meet deadlines. Overclocking only introduces an unknown variable and potential for problems.

I'd aim for a mid level system like what you spec'd, maybe skip SSD for now (can always image/clone the sata drive to a new SSD later). Load it with RAM and quality PSU as ocnoob recommended, get a modest gaming card. Unless you spend through the roof on the entire system you'll never get the latest and greatest games running with everything maxxed, it's not how they're programmed. Use that saved cash for future upgrades, or as an investment in the machine you will be forced to buy in 3 years regardless of what you spend today (because I feel machines are reaching a performance threshold at about 3 years at the current pace of technology). If you could easily afford a top end machine you wouldn't be here asking, you'd just spend now and ask questions later. So if you're like me on a budget, don't shoot that high. You might be surprised at how much you can get done on what most enthusiasts would consider a mediocre machine. I produce complex, often cpu intensive music on an 18 month old computer and don't see any reason I'll need to upgrade it for at least another 18 months.

Just one non-overclocking man's dissenting opinion!

Click to expand...

Well I mostly agree with you but Hollywood does buy the latest bleeding edge computing power for making movies. I have earned more than a few bucks from them being on the bleeding edge. You are correct they are not int their boxes tweaking to get the most out of them.

FX4 said:

Well I mostly agree with you but Hollywood does buy the latest bleeding edge computing power for making movies. I have earned more than a few bucks from them being on the bleeding edge. You are correct they are not int their boxes tweaking to get the most out of them.

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Well yes, that was my point - they don't fix what aint broke. The reason is that they need the PCs to be 101% stable, working 101% of the time, and covered under warranty. End users and aspiring designers should look to their example. If oc'ing was all-that, they would be doing it. What people do in their homes is fine, but I wouldn't emulate everything everyone does in their home as a good business model. This includes what we do with our computers, and even what computer parts choices we make.

The reaosn they go 'top of the line' (which still isn't 'bleeding edge') is because they can, marketing and IT overlap when it comes to development/design machines in businesses. These machines rarely make it past two years before being swapped out. It doesn't mean they aren't useful at 2 years, it's just they tend to see them as so valuable and the employee using them time so valuable, they figure not waiting for it to die and every second saved processing easily justifies and pays off the cost of the new machine.

Heck half the time they go movie to movie with new equipment!

Thread getting very off topic.
We need to determine what level of what this person is doing so as to best direct them to their CPU and GPU choice.

FX4 said:

Heck half the time they go movie to movie with new equipment!

Click to expand...

I would think that would depend on the size and type of the projects being handled. Plus, projects take quite a while to complete, so it's not like the machine only gets used for a couple weeks.

Theocnoob said:

Thread getting very off topic.
We need to determine what level of what this person is doing so as to best direct them to their CPU and GPU choice.

Click to expand...

Very pertinent to the topic:

Pinky said:

... If oc'ing was all-that, they would be doing it. What people do in their homes is fine, but I wouldn't emulate everything everyone does in their home as a good business model. This includes what we do with our computers, and even what computer parts choices we make.

Click to expand...

If he's expecting to use his computer for development and needs as much stability as he can possibly get, then overclocking and/or buying components for overclocking should not be part of the equation. He simply should build the best machine he can within whatever budget he sets forth. What he's already spec'd out looks to be a good compromise to me, plus the suggestions we've made.

Hi there...

Thank you guy's very much for the reactions you've posted... I really appreciate!

What I think I came to understand is that I shouldn't even be wanting such a multi-purpose system configuration, for it would be mediocre in performance and stability in every way?! It would be better to split it up in building two separate systems?! One stable WS for serious content creation & fast rendering, and one good gaming rig that also let's me learn & practice over-clocking?! Just thought if I'd build all my usage desires in one system it would be best and would help me save money for the expensive software licenses, monitor(s) and Canon equipment I'll need to buy for use in year three. (I'll be using my two kit lenses year one & two and I also have the possibility to hire Canon equipment from school, so that will not give me trouble in the future.)

Getting myself a good WS is far more important than being able to play FPS games, but the knowledge I'll gain from learning about over-clocking will be very useful in the future, for it will just give me a deeper understanding of the different systems I'll be using (in general) to run heavy editing software on in the future (a bit like knowing how to play the piano gives you a good and solid base of understanding for playing music & learning to play future different instruments in general) for trouble shooting and being better at improvising on any system/software.

The budget I've isolated for spending on the new hardware configuration has a maximum of exactly € 2500,-. I can't go higher, because I also started a still very small but different budget for a good calibrated monitor, but that will only be necessary in year three and on of the study and will be a NEC or a Eizo -like screen and price range. Same goes for the heavier Adobe software I will be needing, but in year one and two I will just be using Photoshop- & Premiere Elements at home and the CS5 software at school. So the saving up for the better but more expensive CS5 licenses is not really a priority at the moment. This hardware budget amount is the reason why I've been considering waiting a little longer to buy a 'complete' Mac Pro with a 3.33Ghz six-Core Westmere CPU, and the fancy calibrated Thunderbolt screen, but I will not be wanting to have that any longer.

I understand that having a good gaming rig (first) with a two-way SLI GTX560 or GTX570 set-up will let me enjoy some heavier FPS gaming and will also be able to handle some serious basic- to mid-level range content creation with - quite normal to faster than normal - rendering speeds with the Photoshop- & Premiere Elements software and Pinnacle Studios, without crashing on me every 30 or so minutes... But I think on the other hand that I might be better off building a better/good WS than a gaming rig. The WS will be a full tower size, for it will let me be able to add more WS GPU's at a later stage. The gaming rig must stay a midi-sized tower, and it will only max be a two-way SLI set-up with a possibility for a good sound card (if desirable), I already have a good 1080p 2ms monitor from Acer on wich I very much love to play AA3 on. I very much like that new FPS mouse Corsair developed, so much even, that I will be getting that also once I got the gaming rig ready, don't know if I want that keyboard they also developed within that series, for I very much like the light & lighted key's on my Logitech Illuminated keyboard, my LS1 mouse is freezing on me sometimes though, so that'll need a replacement. AA3 ain't so heavy, so I'll just have to stick to AA3 only (on the WS), wich won't be a problem because that's still my all time favorite anyways...

Do you guys want to help me setting up the best possible configuration WS within the € 2500,- budget range I've isolated? It doesn't have to become the maximum amount of money, for saving some will be good for the huge software budget & monitor I will need in a couple years (I will also need to get myself a 135mm and a 50mm red ring, but that's also year 3 and on), and the separate gaming/over-clocking rig I still want to get myself, someday, for on the side...

Work Station rig:

Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 800D Full Tower € 267,-
PSU: Corsair Professional Series Gold AX1200 € 269,-
MoBO: ASUS P9X79 WS € 334,- or Asus X79 Rampage IV Formula € 389,-
CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K € 649,-
CPU Cooling: Hydro Series H100 € 99,90
GPU: PNY Quadro 2000 € 474,-
RAM:
OS: MS Win 7 Ultimate € 279,-

HDD or SSD (still don't know) or HDD with a 20G SSD like you said.

Total is around € 2371,90 / € 2426,90 / Max € 2500,- (incl. some extra fans, one HDD and accessories.) But this way I can't build a separate gaming rig (at the same time)...

Isn't this set-up below a better solution for rendering and photo-/video production at a basic to mid-level range, and still be able to enjoying some good FPS, and just practicing with OC?

Gaming/Overclocking rig:

Case: Corsair Carbide Series 500R Midi Tower € 109,90
PSU: Corsair Professional Series Gold AX850 € 182,90
MoBo: Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 € 167,90 or Asus P8P67 PRO (REV 3.1) or ASUS P8P67 EVO (Rev.3.0) € 147,90 or Asus P8P67 LE
CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K € 289,-
CPU Cooling: Hydro Series H100 € 99,90
GPU: Two-way SLI ASUS ENGTX570 DCII/2DIS/1280MD5 2x € 339,-
RAM:
OS: MS WIN 7 Ultimate € 279,-

HDD or SSD? And there's no need for a sound card with those MoBo's, I guess?

Total is around € 2000,- (+ a fast HDD and some other accessories.)

Wich set-up would you guy's be going for if you were in my shoes? I know how to spent money for I got a huge hole in my hand most of the times, but in these cases I really need some good advice from experienced users/builders, for I think I have not yet acquired enough knowledge to know what's best bang for buck, as you say... All the PC's I've owned excluded - the one I now have - were those commercial OEM complete (Packard Bell/Dell/Acer/HP) PC's & Laptops with a lot of useless ad-ware and other crap I need to terminate each time after re-installing the OS, wich I began to hate and won't be buying ever again (I don't know the jargon to explain this in 'your' language, but you'll understand anyways .

Thank you guy's very much again...

I already got a 16Gb LP kit from the Corsair Vengeance Series, but 4Gb of that will be moving to my mom's, as she will be getting the current set-up I'm now using, but with the 32bit OS instead. So I think I'm going for some 16 to 32GB kit from the Dominator Series or some equal G.Skill kit for the new rig(s).

Also...

I thought having a 3930K CPU to practice OC on will not be such a wise thing to do... So it either will be a WS with the high-end 3930K CPU and no more than the build-in automatic OC options that come with the Asus MoBo, or a gaming/OC rig with the cheaper 2600K CPU, wich I could/might demolish without having to 'mourn' about the investment if it goes to waste...

Ezra said:

Hi there...
....
Work Station rig:

Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 800D Full Tower € 267,-
PSU: Corsair Professional Series Gold AX1200 € 269,-
MoBO: ASUS P9X79 WS € 334,- or Asus X79 Rampage IV Formula € 389,-
CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K € 649,-
CPU Cooling: Hydro Series H100 € 99,90
GPU: PNY Quadro 2000 € 474,-
RAM:
OS: MS Win 7 Ultimate € 279,-
....

Click to expand...

1200 Watts i overkill. Your 850W from your gaming rig is more than enough for this setup.

For the Drive, Go SSD , and if you downgrade your PSU to 850 the savings will go well towards the 128GB SSD like a Crucial M4.

IMHO.

Is the 1200 Watt PSU still overkill when the future set-up could grow up to become a 3- to 4-way SLI configuration with some Quadro 2000 GPU's as those get even lesser expensive? Because that's the reason I chose for a EATX MoBo in a full tower -sized case...

How much GB's would I need to have the OS installed plus Photoshop CS5 with Lightroom, Premiere CS5 with After Effects and Blender (and probably more, wich I can't possibly know at the moment)..? Because someday It'll have grown out to actually be my 'professional' WS on wich I aim to earn my daily bread, one day, when study is finished (just dreaming ahead ..?!

If you have the budget: one 120GB SSD for OS/CS5/Office and a 240GB to store the images/video that are worked in CS5.

Yeah, I already have a 750GB external USB HDD that is being used for storing & sharing stock photo's & video's. I haven't used Office since my 1st PC, I use OpenOffice and I don't know what school-requirements will be on that subject, but it won't be a too big of a problem to switch...

Ain't I better off waiting to buy an SSD after prices have dropped because of concurring prices between different manufacturers and when Thailand is up and running again? (...that's a rule in the world of DSLR's at the moment.) But, yes, at that time, I will certainly have the buck for a good one, but I will also be getting better bang for that buck at that time, in comparison to (if I) would have bought/will buy one at this time..?

Thanks for the input though! I'll be best for me to wait for more input and more diverse perspectives for a better and more honest & detailed view on the different subjects and the whole picture. Thanks

Only HDD prices raised, SSD pricing is stable (not built in Thailand).

Ezra, you might be over thinking this a bit.

Build the best computer you can with your budget, and do not consider overclocking as it:

1) introduces too many unknowns and possible sources for instability in your workstation

and

2) it will not help you programming or in software development in the future.


I work professionally in IT and overclocking was a hobby of mine, but I've long since moved on. Nothing I did while overclocking helped me directly, even as a computer technician. You rarely need to address cooling, memory settings, or other overclocking related configuration issues in the real world. As an enthusiast hobby, it's an 'extreme' way of tinkering with your computer. It would be like saying installing a turbo charger on your honda will make you a better tire salesman, the two are only loosely related. Programmers typically know very little about the operation of a computer because they don't need to know. They're too busy programming, and in most professional environments they wouldn't be the ones fixing their broken computer anyway (someone like I would for them, it would be my job to).

I'm not discouraging you from gaming or overclocking, but those things and your professional interests are unrelated. If you can afford to build separate machines then that would be great, otherwise I'd just focus on having a functional and stable workstation only.

SSDs are great, but as a cost/benefit compromise there's absolutely nothing wrong with using SATA hard drives as long as you have regular backups. As I previously suggested, one drive for your OS, another for your data, and make backups to your external drive. If you only have your data on the external, there's obviously no backup. It's only one a single drive, and if it fails say b-bye to your data!

SSD drives are expensive because they're expensive to build and are still a new-ish technology. The demand for them has also risen when the thailand floods impacted supplies of regular drives, further forcing the ssd prices to stabilize (they were dropping fast prior to the flooding).

I would not buy more power supply then you need. Power supplies are one of the highest failing (and easier to replace) components in a computer. It's unlikely it will last long enough that you would even need those extra 350W from it in a future upgrade. I buy hard drives and power supplies knowing very well they can die at any time, I even keep a spare hard drive in my closet just in case. I've gotten 3+ years out of my PC Power and Cooling power supply, which is about the max life I'd expect. It will die at some point, sooner than later. That's a given.

if i am not mistaken some motherboards come with a program type thing that allows you to switch between the IGPU for image editing(because it does it faster if i am not mistaken) and lets you use the gpu for FPS gaming. The build i am going to give you is going to be under your budget so that you can use the left over money in what ever you want

Case: Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
CPU: i7-2600k (if you want the best performance) or the i5 2500k if you want bang for the buck (i say that the i7 is not worth the extra $100 more but ppl might want to disagree)
GPU: Your choice i say a 6970 or a 570 but this is mostly up to you if you want bang for the buck go with a 6870 or a 560 ti
RAM: You already have the 16 gb (dont give your mom 1 stick it will slow down your computer as SB runs on quad channel
MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3P ( i think this does that cpu/gpu thing i was talking about) (guys picking a mobo is usually the hardest part for me so please tell me if i am wrong in this area)
SSD: Crucial M4
PSU: You said you where going with a 1200 watt THAT is UNNECESSARY unless you are going to quad sli(which your mobo doesn't support)
CD/DVD: Chepo One
CPU Cooler:True Spirit 140
HHD: Go with a sata 2 drive and pick what ever capacity you want make sure it hase a 64 mb cache

ALSO this is a very viable choice what you can do is buy both GPUs the image processing and the gaming gpu so what you can to is buy a benching station like this
http://www.overclockers.com/lian-li-pcq06-benching-station-review/
or
http://www.overclockers.com/myopenpc-doma-pro-pci-benching-station-review/
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112287
or
http://www.technooutlet.com/eflte38...-7D09-E011-B31E-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA

there are others but these are the ones that i found and what you can do is just assemble the system on the bench and when your image editing use that gpu if your gaming then use that gpu.