Dell XPS 420/nvidia card

Hello everyone, I have a friend who has a Dell XPS 420 with a 680W PSU with 4gb of ram, and wanted to upgrade his graphics card to a Nvidia gtx 660ti

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130837&Tpk=nvidia gtx 660ti ftw

I wanted to know if it was possible, and if there were any drawbacks etc. I dont see why it wouldn't work, just thought I'd come here just to double check and make sure.

Thank you very much!

Hello undergroundx and welcome here

For your friend, technically, it is possible to change the graphic card: no compatibility issue or lack of power, no obvious bottlenek between the components, everything looks ok.

The main issue will come from the OS. If the version on the computer is an OEM, then it is one use only and any major hardware upgrade (such as a motherboard or a graphic card) will burn the licence and you won't be able to install windows with the same key.
You will have to buy a new copy (OEM, family, pro or ultimate).

Hope it will help you (and sorry for my english )

Thank you very much for the reply!

So aslong as its a factory set copy of Windows 7 it cannot be upgraded via graphics card Its a Windows 7 64bit machine, is there anyway around this issue by any chance other then buying a different version? Do you think maybe downgrading to 32bit or anything would help?

Also wanted to upgrade some ram, and I know that Windows 7 64bit allows for certain RAM capacities

Windows 7 Home Premium: 16 GB
All the rest are 128gb besides Starter. My question is do you know if it would be possible to upgrade more then 8gb of ram? These are some of the modules I found.


http://www.amazon.com/4GBx2-Perform...=1349803660&sr=8-16&keywords=dell+xps+420+ram

http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-667M...984&sr=8-4&keywords=kingston+dell+xps+420+ram

THIS>> Is the one being looked at for purchase

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239068&Tpk=KTH-PL316EK4/16G

Thank you very much for you help! And I understood you very well. English seems good to me

If Windows 7 was already installed on the pc when it has been bought, then it is automatically an OEM version.
Because it is an OEM, informations about your hardware configuration are saved and loaded by the OS.
If any major change occures in the hardware -> no licence anymore and I am not even sure you could reinstall this OEM copy whatever the problem is with the licence... I never tried with OEM!

Maybe someone in the forum could help you this way (in the operating system section), but I personaly don't know any trick to use an OEM after hardware modification.

Just to explain you the licence policy of microsoft:

* OEM (premium, pro or ultimate)= one computer, one hardware configuration
* not OEM (premium, pro or ultimate) = one computer, allows 3 heavy hardware modifications theoritically (in practice, you can install it on many computers and modify as you want: it still works but only one pc will get the licence, the others are considered as illegal copy).

Downgrading to 32 bits doesn't change the deal: the key is the same, the licence number is the same, so the issues remains the same

7 64bits allows you to use more than 4GB RAM. In 32 bits, the max number of allowable adresses in memory is 2^32 ~4.3 *10^9. Part of the RAM is kept for video and system, so you generally can't use more than ~3.5GB with a 32 bits OS.

Going for more than 8GB RAM is possible, but honestly, it is useless.
99.9% of applications use less than 6GB RAM, the others can use more but you will feel the bottleneck with your CPU way before lacking of RAM xD

8GB is a good amount of RAM; in this configuration, it could also be considered as overkilling, 4GB would be enough, but at the current price, no reason to be shy

The only issue could come from your motherboard: I simply don't have the references to check what specs of RAM it can support.
From what I've found:
* XPS 420 has a Q6600 CPU
* Usually, motherboard that can handle a Q6600 can handle DDR2 with PC2-6400/800MHz.

Conclusion:

RAM OK

OVERKILLING AND DDR3 NOT DDR2 SO NOT OK

NO SPECS SO NOT ABLE TO SAY BUT WHAT THE F IS THIS PRICE???

See you

Thank you

Thank you very much for your helpful response!

So, if I'm understanding correctly, OEM=Legal bought original copy of (Premium,Pro,or Ultimate) is licensed to 1 machine and machine only allowing NO modifications, so it remains as a standalone system meaning no upgrades.

And No OEM=Pirated/non store bought copy=hardware modifications allowed, for as many machines, but 1 machine gets official license..which I assume is Microsofts validation for that 1 machine, leaving the other 2 without any sort of Microsoft support etc via without Licensing?

The ram pretty much should just not be upgraded do you think? There is 4gb at the moment, but would like to upgrade if not 16gb atleast 8gb cause of bigger games, possible use of more programs, According to this (assuming is updated and accurate) I have up to 192gb...which is undoubtedly insane! lol

240 pin DD2 seems to be what I'm looking for, those these seem to be okay

http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-667M...984&sr=8-4&keywords=kingston+dell+xps+420+ram

I dont mean to ask a dumb question, but correct me if I'm wrong but you can mix match ram, aslong as the clock speed is the same, otherwise you will bottleneck your ram, that being one clock speeds higher then the new ram, causing a slow down...but could you maybe take the ram (linked above) and use it with the already existing ram? I guess it would depend on if the ram installed on the machine is already at a higher clock speed then the ram being purchased...if that makes any sense?

Unless I find ram that's DDR2 PC2-6400/800MHz and just replace all of them liked planned. Not sure.

And do you think I should maybe link this thread to the Operating Systems section?

Thank you again for your help! Very much appreciated!

OEM and no OEM are both LEGAL.

Whether the version is OEM or not is usually writen in the description of the product.
OEM were first developed for the PC manufacturers (they don't change their build and don't necessarly want to pay twice the price for a no OEM version which in any case is only available for one and just one computer).

Was is not LEGAL is to use the same no OEM licence for more than just one PC.
Legally, using your copy on your 3 personnal computers at home or delivering a mirror on a torrent website is basically the same: you do not own the right to use the copy on more than one machine.

The no OEM versions can be bought like every kind of software in store or in an online shop. You can at first glance see if the version is OEM or not: the no OEM price is twice the OEM price!

But I personally prefer the no OEM copy: more flexibility (and I need it regarding the frequency I change my rig...).

You can upgrade to 8GB, it isn't stupid at all. But don't except huge change in the global performance!
It is more a matter of being comfortable in recent games like BF3 and so on...
DDR2 begins to be quite old, I would say that you are at the limit were upgrading instead of buying a complete new rig is still viable (Q6600 is still a good CPU).

Don't use too much money in upgrading though. If you go for 8GB RAM and this GPU, it would be the best you can do to upgrade and still see a gain.
Maybe in two years, you will have to change to be able to play to the biggest games and keep the GPU (which will still be good) so don't waste too much right now

RAM stick have to be paired: two different sticks of RAM (different frequency/ timings/ manufacturers/ type of RAM, etc...) won't make it.
If you buy for example two times only one RAM stick.
Both stick do have the same specs, same manufacturer, capacity or whatever.... you MIGHT have no problem but it is not guaranteed.

So in your case: the success ratio of mixing both RAM is really low! (not the same manufacturer, so not exactly the same design, specs, ...)
If you go for 8GB RAM, you will have to buy two 4GB sticks for example which are paired (really often, RAM sticks are sold by two or four; it is made so because those sticks has been manufactured at the same time in the same place in the same conditions so are as symetrical as possible).

Not this thread but ask in a new post explanations about how OEM works for reinstallation/ modifications maybe.
Regardless of what we have said, don't expect any of this forum users to give you a trick to make something illegal (forcing an OEM version to be installed after modification is not really legal...).

There shouldn't be any issue while changing gfx card and if you will have any problems with system activation then you can always call MS and they will help you.
OEM Win7 have usually up to 5 activations on the same base hardware so count motherboard + cpu.

There is way to use OEM version after changing more devices.
Example : when motherboard burn, you have to replace it and internet activation won't work on other model. Then you call MS and you tell them that board was dead so you had to replace it and you couldn't reactivate system after that. They will give you activation key and that's all.

You shouldn't have problems with system activation after changing RAM, adding drives or graphics/sound cards. As far as I know changes like that are legal as you are not changing main platform. I never had any issues with activation via phone when I had to replace something in customer's pc.
One thing that you can't change is computer case with license sticker that includes key and system version.

OEM = original equipment manufacturer , in this case it's DELL who preinstalled Win7 on your computer.
In theory OEM is version for system builders but all can buy it and it's cheaper than BOX version just because there is not included additional support ( this support is providing computer manufacturer but all activation issues will still be solved by Microsoft and probably all other issues also ) and you can't reinstall it on other computer.

Simply if you are making your own computer and you install OEM system then you are system builder and you are providing additional support for ... yourself

Thank you

Thank you again! Fornoob

I think I understand, now If I have a non-OEM copy of windows 7. Can I still use it on this 1 machine, or could I maybe keep it the way it is and still upgrade. I don't plan on installing or using windows on another machine. But if the one I have on there isn't OEM I can reinstall to a non OEM version 64bit? (Sorry trying to make sense...) lol

And 8gb sounds like a descent amount, 16gb maybe would be an overkill, I would only want it so I could like you said, be prepared for bigger more demanding games BF3 etc..

So would getting 2x of these work?

http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Valu...s=Kingston+4GB+DDR2+667Mhz+240-Pin+RAM+Memory

4 ram sticks each being 2gb a piece=8gb 4 slots on ram board used...I think that would work?

And I believe I understand, so pretty much mixing ram is a hit or miss, your better off just getting ram that comes in pairs (together) that match for that machine since both will be the same everything specs,manufacturer etc.

And I think I'll go do that. I'll simply explain the situation and see what my options are.

Thank you again. Hopefully I understood you correctly, I believe I have.

@Woomack Thank you also for your help!
So if I do decide to install the Ram and Graphics Card there shouldn't be any issue?

Not sure if this helps but Its a Windows 7 Ultimate Edition (Aftermarket) Whatever that means. Non OEM maybe?

I'd Assume just upgrading the Ram defiantly wouldn't cause any issue even with new graphics card. Worst case scenerio it doesn't boot and I would just have to call MS and explain the situation and they reissue me a new Licensing key?

I guess its a matter of just getting the upgrades and seeing how everything boots up? And up to 5 activation's ,is what I thought, considering this has been on 1 machine (far as I know) everything should work without any issue I'd assume?

Thx woomack for the clarification about what MS think by saying "hardware modification"

If you have a non OEM copy, you can use it on every machine you want but only one at a time: you have to uninstall it on the first machine to install it on a new one.
32 or 64 bits is not an issue: no limit, you can install 32 bits, then go 64 then back again to 32, going from 32 bits OEM to 64 bits no OEM, what you want

It is exactly the same think as choosing between word 2003 and word 2007 student version or professionnal: you can uninstall/ install in every order you can imagine and go from one to the other

By taking 4 sticks in 2 times 2sticks, you are taking a risk: both sets won't necessarly match with each other

But I guess the risk is limited. If it doesn't work, you can still send it back telling you don't need it anymore. You get 7 days (or so, it depends) to do so after each purchase on the internet.

I found this set of 2 sticks for 8GB:

http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Memo...s=Kingston+8GB+DDR2+667Mhz+240-Pin+RAM+Memory

but price is maybe a little high...

Upgrading the RAM never causes any issue with Windows, it wasn't as clear in my mind in the case of graphic card (woomack made it clear now ).
Looking for a new copy of windows is also not a priority in your case, but the informations we gave you may help you in the future

If you got Windows in separate box then it's probably not oem. If you got it preinstalled by DELL and you have sticker with key on the computer with info that's DELL then it's OEM version ( sometimes marked as DOEM or ROP but it's the same ).

Here I found nice info about OEM rights.
- Generally an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer, except the motherboard, and still retain the license for the original Microsoft OEM Windows Desktop Operating System software.
- If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM Windows Desktop Operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and new operating system software is required.
- If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do not need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC as long as the replacement motherboard is the same make/model or the same manufacturer’s replacement/equivalent, as defined by the manufacturer’s warranty.

About memory ... better get DDR2-800 kit as it will work @800 or @667 and cost about the same as DDR2-667. Kingston Value is fine.

Thank you

Thank you both very much..Much appreciated!

So, when it comes to the installation of Windows 7 that's already on the machine..there is NO need to reinstall or anything just go about adding RAM/Gfix card, considering its on 1 machine not re-installing at all?

And that ram stick doesn't look to bad. I'd rather get the 8gb and know I wont have any issues then risk buy more then necessary doubling and risking having some sort of incompatibility issue.

Graphics card

http://tinyurl.com/8zwofh3

RAM

http://tinyurl.com/RAM-sticks

Should work no problem?

Just wanna make extra clarification since I'm always worried about making a big plunge when it comes to upgrading big pieces in a rig.

Thank you's to both of you! Much appreciated. Sorry for any confusion if caused any.

And yes I will defiantly be using this Forum as a "reference" in the near future

About RAM:
the default RAM speed for your rig is 667MHz but like woomack says, higher can still work (800 MHz or even 1066 MHz for some motherboards).
The difference in global performance is about the same than the one in the price -> maybe 5 or 10% better in some case to no difference at all in other applications.

Let's say: with 667 MHz, you are completely safe
with 800 MHz, you are 99% safe, but if any issue, you can still send it back (the system will simply not boot, only because 800MHz is not the "official supported frequency"... from my own experience, only Asus MB made me face this kind of trouble... so I think that you can definitely go for 800MHz).
with 1066MHz, it begins to be rare and quite expensive for a not amazing perf boost... so I would advice to stay at 800 Mhz.

I found it in 800MHz:

http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Modu...s=Kingston+8GB+DDR2+800Mhz+240-Pin+RAM+Memory

fornoob said:

About RAM:
the default RAM speed for your rig is 667MHz but like woomack says, higher can still work (800 MHz or even 1066 MHz for some motherboards).
The difference in global performance is about the same than the one in the price -> maybe 5 or 10% better in some case to no difference at all in other applications.

Let's say: with 667 MHz, you are completely safe
with 800 MHz, you are 99% safe, but if any issue, you can still send it back (the system will simply not boot, only because 800MHz is not the "official supported frequency"... from my own experience, only Asus MB made me face this kind of trouble... so I think that you can definitely go for 800MHz).
with 1066MHz, it begins to be rare and quite expensive for a not amazing perf boost... so I would advice to stay at 800 Mhz.

I found it in 800MHz:

http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Modu...s=Kingston+8GB+DDR2+800Mhz+240-Pin+RAM+Memory

Click to expand...

That RAM looks pretty good thank you! I will go with those instead of the ones I linked. Thanks again.

And the graphics card should be good also hopefully and everything should be good I hope

Thanks again for clarification!

I have a few more questions regarding some other possible upgrades. So far 8gb and a nvidia gtx 660ti is currently all that's been done. But was thinking about upgrading the regular HDD to SSD, and also maybe the processor. I believe the Dell xps 420 has a Q6600 CPU which with a 680PSU already in it and new graphics card on the way the processor should be okay and maybe doesn't need to be upgraded. I'm new to the SSD world, and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on what might be a good first start? Read some of the stickies and other posts on here, I had found these

SSD-1 http://tinyurl.com/8myrcye

SSD-2 http://tinyurl.com/8r8qh4r

I believe the computer has SATA-2 which If I understand correctly will decrease the speeds unless there is SATA-3. I'll have to report back on that.

Also if I do decide to possibly upgrade the processor would anyone have any suggestions as to what might be a good one. Machine is mostly used for gaming/videos/browsing web. But mostly gaming. I had found this site which seems to narrow it down

http://tinyurl.com/8qwkq8t

But just wanted to get a second opinion from people who know alittle more. Any more information let me know.


Thank you very much!

undergroundx said:

I have a few more questions regarding some other possible upgrades. So far 8gb and a nvidia gtx 660ti is currently all that's been done. But was thinking about upgrading the regular HDD to SSD, and also maybe the processor. I believe the Dell xps 420 has a Q6600 CPU which with a 680PSU already in it and new graphics card on the way the processor should be okay and maybe doesn't need to be upgraded. I'm new to the SSD world, and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on what might be a good first start? Read some of the stickies and other posts on here, I had found these

SSD-1 http://tinyurl.com/8myrcye

SSD-2 http://tinyurl.com/8r8qh4r

I believe the computer has SATA-2 which If I understand correctly will decrease the speeds unless there is SATA-3. I'll have to report back on that.

Also if I do decide to possibly upgrade the processor would anyone have any suggestions as to what might be a good one. Machine is mostly used for gaming/videos/browsing web. But mostly gaming. I had found this site which seems to narrow it down

http://tinyurl.com/8qwkq8t

But just wanted to get a second opinion from people who know alittle more. Any more information let me know.


Thank you very much!

Click to expand...

My work PC used to be a Dell 420. I upgraded the main hard drive to an SSD and that made a significant difference for that computer. Forget about upgrading the processor, it is a Dell system, it is multiplier locked, un-overclockable and socket 775 so your choices are extremely limited. Video card, ram and SSD will be a decent upgrade. If your friend wants to upgrade the CPU and motherboard too, the Dell 420 has a BTX motherboard, so you will need to get a new case too.

Furkmyster said:

My work PC used to be a Dell 420. I upgraded the main hard drive to an SSD and that made a significant difference for that computer. Forget about upgrading the processor, it is a Dell system, it is multiplier locked, un-overclockable and socket 775 so your choices are extremely limited. Video card, ram and SSD will be a decent upgrade. If your friend wants to upgrade the CPU and motherboard too, the Dell 420 has a BTX motherboard, so you will need to get a new case too.

Click to expand...

Gotcha! Yeah I thought that the SSD,Card, and RAM would be enough and a descent enough upgrade. And hmm interesting, kinda understandable why they lock the CPU from being overclocked. And I think that the SSD,Ram, and CPU will be enough especially for awhile.

Thank you very much for you reply!

Based on the SSD drive I had linked above would you recommend it? Or do you have any recommendations personally?

Thank you!

Hi!

Like Furkmyster said, upgrading the CPU would mind change the mobo (socket 775, sata II, etc...). You could even so start to build a completely new PC

For the SSD, as you will be running in SATA II, you won't see real difference between Vertex 3 and Vertex 4 except for the writing. The price should dictate your choice.

Another recommandations: Crucial M4 or Intel 330 (similar prices, excellent life time and low performance decrease with time).

fornoob said:

Hi!

Like Furkmyster said, upgrading the CPU would mind change the mobo (socket 775, sata II, etc...). You could even so start to build a completely new PC

For the SSD, as you will be running in SATA II, you won't see real difference between Vertex 3 and Vertex 4 except for the writing. The price should dictate your choice.

Another recommandations: Crucial M4 or Intel 330 (similar prices, excellent life time and low performance decrease with time).

Click to expand...

Okay! makes things clearer..I am just going to have my friend leave the CPU as is.

And Ahh okay, I didn't think there would be much of a increase without having SATA-3. And thank you for the drive recommendations very much appreciated!

Thanks to everyone who has responded on my behalf and has helped out

With OCZ, I have had two usable drives, and one dead drive from the reseller. No preference myself.