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Looking for a Suggestion (FM2)

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azanimefan

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2012
Location
Phoenix, Az
What is the best FM2 motherboard out there for stable, reliable and constant Overclocks?

I'm planning an a10 system at the moment and would like feedback on this.
 
mmmm... good question. How to sum it up.

I need a new PC since my old PC blew up (6 year OC on an Athlon 64), the motherboard let go in an explosion of sparks one day on power-up (lit up my room, thought i started a fire. pretty spectacular actually).

Since it's been a long time since i had fun in this hobby i thought i'd build a system well beyond my usage needs (streaming videos off the net, and ms office mostly), as the only real gaming i do is on dosbox playing 20 year old games. That said i thought it would be fun to have a modern pc that can play modern games at eyebleeding levels.

Since it's too easy to "just build" anything, i thought i'd exercise my brain a bit and go for a 100% passive cooled system, that i can overclock AND would count as a solid gaming box. Of course that's a nearly impossible list... though i had a concept for an i7 system that would do just that (as well as being my first intel system i built for myself since the mid 90s). Of course i quickly came to my senses before spending a dime on that system, and decided to about face and give AMD my business.

Unfortunately, the APU is pretty much a foreign word to me, and the info on the net is vague (i never realized how little specific info there is out there for people trying to educate themselves through means other then trial and error). Anyway, I have the "how" figured out. As in how am i going to cool an overclocked APU plus GPU. I just need to find the board that will bring out the high and stable OC, for both the CPU & on-chip GPU... it should be sturdy and dependable. Basically i want a board that will run a solid (high) and stable overclock pretty much for 5 straight years of use.
 
big thing to start with is if your looking to upgrade your a10 setup in the future to a discrete graphics setup for more juice. If that is important than you will want something with the A85x Chipset.

I've only currently worked with two boards out there for this chipset. They are both early in their bios releases. The manufacturers are still trying to Get a Handle on their bioses and compatibility. I've Used the Gigabyte Fm2a85x-up4, and the ASRock FM2A85x-extreme6.

That being set they both have their own partyPieces at this point.

The gigabyte board Currently has better bios based overclocking support. However it has limited In bios and OS IGP voltage control. Making IGP overclocking much more difficult. Its also more restrictive in the voltage department. IN that the VRM's are not as agressive or heavily driven. Also the in OS overclocking software is limited, although it gives some voltage control it tends to set the cpu into the wrong power states and will not allow Multiplier changes currently. This board also has a much higher overall limit for the BCLK, of around 200mhz (only really needed for extreme overclocking).

The ASRock board Has alot of bios problems currently for bios based overclocking. It also has some NB performance Limitations in the bios preventing you from changing the NB speed to improve the performance of the IGP more. However This board has great Voltage control in the bios for IGP and NB voltages. The two can act sperate from each other so that you don't have to use Stilts much more complicated Command line interface for voltage control. The ASRock board has a very strong VRM design thats quite aggressive. Which is good when pushing the limits. The In OS overclocking software has good functionality. Its easy to use, has both bclk and multiplier control along with a good selection of voltage control (however no IGP voltage control in os sadly). Sadly this board currently has a max of 165mhz bclk but it appears to only be a bios limitation. Which will hopefully be lifted soon.

Right now the UP4 is currently the better board for Extreme overclocking. But the Extreme6 is easier board to use out of the box, despite its current bios limitations (which ASRock is working on fixing). It does lock you into useing the in OS software a little more, but it doesn't limit you from pulling off a good overclock.

However if MSI or whoever else out there wants to send me some more A85x boards to abuse i would gladly put them into the abuse rotation and review stream :D.
 
You wont have "eye bleeding" level of detail with an APU. I built a few of these and this was mostly for HTPC or non gamer with low CPU usage demand. In short, this was for cost effective build.

As soon as i know that someone will do some work on the computer, sadly for AMD, i go with Intel. The last pure working computer a built was with a 3570K running on the IGP, the newer HD4000 from intel. The guy that buyed it is 150% happy with the rig since he do lots of video editing... a 3570K do it fast while remaining fresh ! ** in installed him a good 120mm cooler for silence and coolness ** With only a few 120mm fan on this computer, the rig stay damn near silent, the loudest part is his PSU, wich we think of replacing but its not a priority for him.

Some numbers now and youll see why i choosed a 3570K for my friend build. A 5800K is "neck to neck" with a little I3 from intel when you look at pure CPU performance. In some other bench the 5800K is just over an I3, in others the I3 take the lead.

(place a 3570K just a bit over a 2500K)
50397.png

50398.png

When we speak of gaming, a 5800K have a better integrated GPU than the Intel one but they both cant game on high resolution with lots of candy. You need a discrete GPU for this and as soon as you put a real GPU with the CPU, an I3 take the lead VS a 5800K in prety much every games you can throw at it.

50402.png

50406.png

50403.png
 
I know what the a10 is capable of. I also know that some people are a bit too concerned with benchmarks scores... Granted an i7 is a great chip, nor will i bash anything intel is offering, they're all great offerings.

But when you're talking about 25-50% difference in performance, that's largely indistinguishable with a solid overclock (granted there are some benchmarks where it's a much bigger difference then that). overclock an a10 to 4.7ghz and hold it there, and you won't be able to tell the difference between it and an i5-3570k... not unless you have a stopwatch anyway.

Granted that's a pretty serious overclock... and likely unreasonable to expect. But then that's what you all are here for. Personally I like a challenge. I'd like to see just how much i can squeeze out of this chip. And if its done completely passive that will just be the cherry on top. So with your input on MBs maybe i can save some time with the trial and error part... and just get down to it.


Now, onto the previous point.

Chipset. The A85X chipset is new, and therefor a bit iffy i gather. Are older chipsets more robust on the OC side of things? What sacrifices are made at different chipsets? Thanks!
 
The big difference between the A85x and the A75 is the add IO lanes for PCIE and and the ability to do crossfire. The problems right now are bios problems for the bioses compatiable with Fm2 in general not so much a specific chipset from What i can Gather. The Fm1 bioses had many of the same problems on release.

The A85x chipset seems to show up as having both the A75 and A55 chipsets as part of their internal design when they get detected by some stuff. If thats the truth or not i haven't been able to track it down. But Bios problems are kinda a given for big platform changes like this, A month or two down the road and everything will be ironed out and the experience will be quite a bit smoother. Similar to how Fm1 is no where close to as much of a nightmare as it useto be at launch, allmost all due to bios changes.
 
They aren't horrible right now, they just can be kinda disagreeable at times when pushing them hard. You can easily drop a chip in one and some 2400mhz ram and a decent cooler and get a good overclocker out of them, but Tweeking the IGP will take time reguardless of the chipset. Thats where the extra functionality thats not quite there yet in most bioses come into play.
 
The 3570k will OC as far as the 5800K and will alwais more powerfull than the AMD proc ...

I think that you ask question without really wanting people to give anwser. You want the answer that you want to see.
 
The 3570k will OC as far as the 5800K and will alwais more powerfull than the AMD proc ...

I think that you ask question without really wanting people to give anwser. You want the answer that you want to see.

Considering the question he asked was about FM2 motherboards, not about what platform he should buy. I think your blowing things out of proportion. While others opinions about different platforms is valuable information. I am sure if hes already weighed that in his mind if hes already looking for a motherboard.
 
Staying On Topic...

azanimefan is the starter of the thread titled >> Looking for a Suggestion (FM2)

What is the best FM2 motherboard out there for stable, reliable and constant Overclocks?

I'm planning an a10 system at the moment and would like feedback on this.

It would be polite after you post something and he continues to go forward with his 'original' thought not to come back and tell him he does not want to hear what you have to say. He is moving forward with the original thread title and what he is requesting information about.

So rather than get reported to the moderators for baiting or flaming, I would leave azanimefan to his devices and let the thread proceed as was intended.

The 3570k will OC as far as the 5800K and will alwais more powerfull than the AMD proc ...

I think that you ask question without really wanting people to give anwser. You want the answer that you want to see.
 
Sorry if this was "rude" ( im french from quebec ... ) Sometimes my english isnt perfect ;)

azanimefan said:
Since it's been a long time since i had fun in this hobby i thought i'd build a system well beyond my usage needs (streaming videos off the net, and ms office mostly), as the only real gaming i do is on dosbox playing 20 year old games. That said i thought it would be fun to have a modern pc that can play modern games at eyebleeding levels.

I was giving advice to buy an I5 after what he said about the fact that he may want to game at "eye bleeding level" wich is most likely to happen on a Z77/3570K platform with a discrete GPU than with an APU and a 5800K, even OCed to the sky.
 
Sorry if this was "rude" ( im french from quebec ... ) Sometimes my english isnt perfect ;)



I was giving advice to buy an I5 after what he said about the fact that he may want to game at "eye bleeding level" wich is most likely to happen on a Z77/3570K platform with a discrete GPU than with an APU and a 5800K, even OCed to the sky.

I do hear you man and as is most often the case, there are seeming "conflicting" statements within these "what should I buy" types of posts.

Do appreciate your calm demeanor.

If the post had begun with I want to build A10 APU setup because I do not want to spend a bunch of money and will add the correct ATI discrete video card later for hybrid crossfire, that would have done away with having to suggest better performance.

Again "Boulard83", we thank you for your good disposition.

RGone...ster.
 
hah... didn't mean to start this argument. No, Boulard83, I know that the a10 is limited. I'm well aware that even a moderately OC'ed i5-2500 or... well pretty much any "k" series offering from intel will walk away from a trinity. I also know that the A10 isn't an ideal hardcore gaming platform.

The confusion here is because I never linked my original thread on this topic, as i didn't really see the point. However if you see how this idea was formed, I'm sure you might start to understand a bit.

your advice is good advice, particularly since I did say i wanted "eye-bleeding" graphic. In general, unless I am talking about an FX-8350, the only chips you'll talk that way about are intel offerings. Part of my motivation with this build is the technical challenge to squeeze as much as I can out of this build. Since coming to this board I've been impressed with all of the information and well informed community members here. Frankly, I've probably saved thousands of dollars in blind testing with all the information in your heads.

I also have seen a weird culture i didn't expect. Generally the "best" performance has become more of a goal around here. I remember getting into overclocking 20-25 years ago because no one in their right mind bought a $1000 CPU when you could overclock a $200 CPU to match it. It wasn't about buying a $1000 CPU and seeing how high I could overclock it.

My mindset is about the same now... though the price-range is different. The best performing CPUs (in general) all are clustered around 200-300 now. Sure you can get slightly better cpus for more money, but in general the change in performance is so little there is almost no point.

So this makes me wonder "what can I do with a cheaper and by all accounts 'inferior' chip?" That I need a new pc only makes it much more interesting to me. Hence this topic.

Now then, back on topic. In short, the architecture in general surrounding the FM2 socket is so new, they're still working out the kinks. That almost makes me lean toward ASUS, as I know once these issues are worked out, they'll give the best support to help me get a stable OC. Even if they aren't there now. I get now why there is almost no info on this platform. Didn't even occur to me the "age" factor. Of course i've seen a number of reports that seems to indicate that ASUS quality isn't the same as it used to be, which troubles me too.
 
Last edited:
azanimefan said:
Now then, back on topic. In short, the architecture in general surrounding the FM2 socket is so new, they're still working out the kinks. That almost makes me lean toward ASUS, as I know once these issues are worked out, they'll give the best support to help me get a stable OC. Even if they aren't there now. I get now why there is almost no info on this platform. Didn't even occur to me the "age" factor. Of course i've seen a number of reports that seems to indicate that ASUS quality isn't the same as it used to be, which troubles me too.

I owned and i still own tons of Asus boards, wich never failed on me. Am i lucky ? maybe a bit but in general Asus boards are good and they provide frequent bios update is there are issue.

I currently have an EVGA board in my main rig cause the X79 FTW are sold at rediculous price cause they had issue with it, mine works fine :). Lucky again ? who know !


As for the rest of your threads, ive took a look at it a few times and i think its possible to build something very efficient and powerfull but there will be limits for sure. Youll have to sacrifice something, eyecandy+low power usage arnt alwais sticking together. The reason why i suggest you to buy an I5 is quite simple IMO. A 3570k is power efficient, its powerfull enough for pretty much anything and it can overclock and/or downclock. My overclock are not Xtrem when its for my 24/7 usage and im currently running my I7 3820 at 4.2ghz but with all the power efficiency feature active. This mean that when idling, its running 1.2ghz. My HTPC i5 2500k is clocked 4ghz and let me tell you that this computer is really efficient cause a little 4 cores without HT dont push that much watts at that clocks.

Ive seens reviews of HUGE passive coolers that were able to keep a 3570k or even a 3770k under controll even OCed. Adding only a single 120/140mm fan to the case running at low RPMs helped alot for sure while staying damn silent. If i was building the type of machine you want to build, my choice is for sure an I5 with a mid range GPU like a GTX 660. Stick HUGE cooler on the GPU and CPU and they will stay quiet.
 
I agree those are "conventional" and cost effective solutions.

I just am feeling like reinventing the wheel a bit. Energy Efficiency has sorta fallen by the wayside unfortunately (though the a10 apparently is a lot more energy efficient then the 100tdp suggest, coming in on an average energy use next to an i3... of course that's not overclocked, and with the energy saving features turned on)... while I would like to show a low power usage from this build, I knew going to AMD would make it unimpressive in that field (intel has spent a lot more time and energy working on efficiency).


Back on topic. I've never had an issue with ASUS either. I've just been reading about their growing unreliability on the net... and while i've never seen it, it does bother me a bit.
 
I agree those are "conventional" and cost effective solutions.

I just am feeling like reinventing the wheel a bit. Energy Efficiency has sorta fallen by the wayside unfortunately (though the a10 apparently is a lot more energy efficient then the 100tdp suggest, coming in on an average energy use next to an i3... of course that's not overclocked, and with the energy saving features turned on)... while I would like to show a low power usage from this build, I knew going to AMD would make it unimpressive in that field (intel has spent a lot more time and energy working on efficiency).

Back on topic. I've never had an issue with ASUS either. I've just been reading about their growing unreliability on the net... and while i've never seen it, it does bother me a bit.

If you know what to expect from an APU, it can be the right choice. But as soon as someone talk about gaming+eyecandy, APU arnt what i suggest them.

As for Asus, they are the top motherboard seller in the world so if they have lets say .5% fail rate, youll end up earing of it on the net more than lets say MSI that sold like 5x less motherboard in the same period. (MSI is an exemple).
 
Asus seems to have the best implementations of A85X so far. I have an ASUS F2A85-V PRO and a Gigabyte F2A85X-UP4 and have severe overheating problems when trying to overclock an A10-5800K on the UP4 past 4600, with temps in Prime95 going over 80C, meanwhile the V-PRO easily does 4900 in Prime95 at about 54C.

Asus gives you access to Digi+ VRM in windows through its AI Suite II (recently updated again), while Gigabyte's UEFI only gives you the two basic LLC settings. The following test I did on the ASUS wouldn't be possible on the UP4 as it is implemented at the moment.

Using the standard APU frequency of 100MHz and incrementing the APU Multiplier from 38X to 50X I've attempted overclocks with the default Digi+VRM settings and then using the Smart Digi+ key in AI Suite II from 3800MHz to 5000MHz. LLC settings in my test were made using the optimized VRM setting facility in AI Suite II on Asus boards. I first set and apply the Multiplier/Frequency in Turbo EVO then go into DIGI+ Power Control and click the colored Smart DIGI+ Key which generates an appropriate setting for the applied OC.

The CPU voltage required in each OC to pass 30 minutes in Prime95 is given with the number of 0.00625V steps above or below the default setting of 1.3125V.

Code:
+------+---------------+---------------+
|CpuMHz|.Default VRM...|.SmartDigi+Key.|
|ApuFrq+-----+---------+-----+---------+
| =100 | -/+*|..Vcore..|.-/+.| .Vcore..|
+------+-----+---------+-----+---------+
| 3800 | -15 | 1.21875 | -19 | 1.19375 |
| 3900 | -10 | 1.25000 | -16 | 1.21250 |
| 4000 | -05 | 1.28125 | -12 | 1.23750 |
| 4100 | +02 | 1.32500 | -07 | 1.26875 |
| 4200 | +07 | 1.35625 | -02 | 1.30000 |
| 4300 | +13 | 1.39375 | +05 | 1.34375 |
| 4400 | +18 | 1.42500 | +10 | 1.37500 |
| 4500 | +26 | 1.47500 | +17 | 1.41875 |
| 4600 | +38 | 1.55000 | +24 | 1.46250 |
| 4700 | +50 | 1.62500 | +34 | 1.52500 |
| 4800 | +62 | 1.70000 | +46 | 1.60000 |
| 4900 | 80+ | 1.8125+ | +60 | 1.68750 |
| 5000 | 80+#| 1.8125+ | 80+ | 1.8125+ |
+------+-----+---------+-----+---------+
| * 1.3125V to 1.9V = 94 x 0.00625V....|
| # 80+ = Prime95 fails below 1.8125V..|
+--------------------------------------+
 
Asus seems to have the best implementations of A85X so far. I have an ASUS F2A85-V PRO and a Gigabyte F2A85X-UP4 and have severe overheating problems when trying to overclock an A10-5800K on the UP4 past 4600, with temps in Prime95 going over 80C, meanwhile the V-PRO easily does 4900 in Prime95 at about 54C.

Asus gives you access to Digi+ VRM in windows through its AI Suite II (recently updated again), while Gigabyte's UEFI only gives you the two basic LLC settings. The following test I did on the ASUS wouldn't be possible on the UP4 as it is implemented at the moment.

Using the standard APU frequency of 100MHz and incrementing the APU Multiplier from 38X to 50X I've attempted overclocks with the default Digi+VRM settings and then using the Smart Digi+ key in AI Suite II from 3800MHz to 5000MHz. LLC settings in my test were made using the optimized VRM setting facility in AI Suite II on Asus boards. I first set and apply the Multiplier/Frequency in Turbo EVO then go into DIGI+ Power Control and click the colored Smart DIGI+ Key which generates an appropriate setting for the applied OC.

The CPU voltage required in each OC to pass 30 minutes in Prime95 is given with the number of 0.00625V steps above or below the default setting of 1.3125V.

Code:
+------+---------------+---------------+
|CpuMHz|.Default VRM...|.SmartDigi+Key.|
|ApuFrq+-----+---------+-----+---------+
| =100 | -/+*|..Vcore..|.-/+.| .Vcore..|
+------+-----+---------+-----+---------+
| 3800 | -15 | 1.21875 | -19 | 1.19375 |
| 3900 | -10 | 1.25000 | -16 | 1.21250 |
| 4000 | -05 | 1.28125 | -12 | 1.23750 |
| 4100 | +02 | 1.32500 | -07 | 1.26875 |
| 4200 | +07 | 1.35625 | -02 | 1.30000 |
| 4300 | +13 | 1.39375 | +05 | 1.34375 |
| 4400 | +18 | 1.42500 | +10 | 1.37500 |
| 4500 | +26 | 1.47500 | +17 | 1.41875 |
| 4600 | +38 | 1.55000 | +24 | 1.46250 |
| 4700 | +50 | 1.62500 | +34 | 1.52500 |
| 4800 | +62 | 1.70000 | +46 | 1.60000 |
| 4900 | 80+ | 1.8125+ | +60 | 1.68750 |
| 5000 | 80+#| 1.8125+ | 80+ | 1.8125+ |
+------+-----+---------+-----+---------+
| * 1.3125V to 1.9V = 94 x 0.00625V....|
| # 80+ = Prime95 fails below 1.8125V..|
+--------------------------------------+

great reply! Thank you!

What type of performance were you pulling from the apu at 4.6ghz? The numbers online seem to indicate the CPU's performance in benchmarks and real world tasks actually seems to scale nicely with it's overclock. How about the onboard GPU overclocking?
 
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