Hokie's HTPC Help Hotline

Heya HTPC hangers-on! (Loose synonym of enthusiast...I was just trying to see how many H's I could use...annnnyway...)

So, this is my thread for help with HTPC. I've googled until I'm blue in the face and have come up with some decent answers, but thought I'd ask you specific examples.

My system will be as seen here. My OS will be Win 7. To start, I plan on using Windows Media Center, but am open to other options.

First, what HTPC software do you use? I'd love a catch-all that can play DVDs, access music/video/photos on the network and (this one's the clincher) view YouTube, Hulu, Netflix and the like from inside the one program. So...what do you guys use? WMC with plugins? Others?

Second is storage. Currently I'm running a 1TB Samsung drive with SSD caching courtesy a Vertex 2 I had lying around. Were I to get a cable card device and go full-on HTPC, is 1TB enough for a DVR plus all my programs? I do plan on installing a couple of games (BF3 mostly, but others are installed too), so probably 100GB is going to be taken.

That leaves ~900GB for DVR use. Is that plenty? How much storage does your typical DVR have in it? Ours seems to fill up quicky and hovers around 80% full with what I see as not that much on it...that said, I know HD programs are space-intensive. It also wouldn't be bad to rip some of our DVD collection so we don't have to pull discs whenver the kiddo wants to watch Brave or whatever. How big is your standard ripped SD DVD? BluRay I understand is massive, so we'll stick with discs for those once I get a BR drive.

Storage thoughts?

Last in the OP - Do you use a cablecard? I'd need an external reader b/c my board is mITX and the GPU takes up the PCIe slot. If you do use a cablecard, what do you think of it? Good? Bad? Ugly? How is it compared to, say, your standard Cisco dedicated cable box/DVR?

That's it for now. Any input is welcome!

Since you are asking what I use, I'll explain even thought it may not work for you. I use XBMC to play video/audio. For YouTube/Netflix, I do have to resort to using Firefox, but with one of these, it isn't too bad. It has been awhile since I've looked, but I've yet to find a plugin that works for NetFlix/Hulu, mainly because they don't want it working, so they keep making changes to the website to break it.

I don't use this as a DVR, so I have absolutely no experience when it comes to tuner cards or recording video.

Storage:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6989988&#post6989988

Thideras said:

To help you figure out how much space you will need, here are some averages from my file server:
FLAC (uncompressed) audio file - 32.2 mb
OGG (compressed, like MP3) audio file - 2.82 mb
DVD - 1014 mb (largest is 3.1 gb, smallest is 424 mb)
BluRay - 3654 mb (largest is 9.8 gb, smallest is 1.4 gb)

Click to expand...

If you have the physical space and can afford it, I would suggest moving to a dedicated file server.

Regarding cable cards - I'll be switching to one soon. Remember though, you'll lose any "On Demand" function or PPV. It's clearly worth it though, since almost anything On Demand has showed at some point or another on regular tv/premiums and you could have recorded it anyway. DVR boxes use cable cards also, so the quality will be the exact same.

Regarding DVR space - the box in our living room is an older motorolla box with a 120 or 160gb drive. The brand-new motorolla box I've had in my room is 500gb. My girlfriend keeps that 90% full, all the time.

I'll be upgrading that to 8TB in just a regular drive pool, with my cheap green drives. I'd suggest getting one of the larger HTPC cases if you are worried about expanding the storage space.

(something else to remember is that the htpc will generally be a lot less full than a dvr box because it's so much easier to delete stuff by category/name/folder/etc.

on a dvr most of the used space is crap that people watched or dont wanna watch, and havent deleted yet, because deleting each item is a 10 second pain in the ***)

Planning on sticking with WMC myself, but if it doesn't perform well with the cablecard, I'll just use XMBC for windows.

Xbmc for the software. If you want to do some streaming check out plex.

With regard to cable card things I've heard pretty positive things about the infinitv4 tuners.

For Netflix/etc I just use the browser (chrome in my situation).

hokiealumnus said:

Last in the OP - Do you use a cablecard? I'd need an external reader b/c my board is mITX and the GPU takes up the PCIe slot. If you do use a cablecard, what do you think of it? Good? Bad? Ugly? How is it compared to, say, your standard Cisco dedicated cable box/DVR?

Click to expand...

Yes, Ceton InfiniTV4 PCIe plus some several other non-CableCARD digital tuners to lessen the load for locals. Ceton has a similar 4-tuner USB model too but in all honesty you should look at the SiliconDust HDHR Prime. It's a network based tuner that sits on your network and communicates with the media center over TCP so it won't take a slot or even need to be attached to any PC. Only difference is that it's only 3 tuners so could be a limit if you need a lot of simultaneous recordings or plan on multiple live TV streams.

RE: CableCARD's in general. I'd never go back to anything provided by a cable company, ever. Vastly better.

If you have a home server you can relocate your recordings there and then watch them from the HTPC. That reduces the need for local DVR storage capacity greatly. Works fine if you only have one recording/viewing location. Can be a problem if you want to share recordings between TVs/media centers and your cable company imposes DRM on most channels as recordings get locked to the PC that made them in that case.

This is great info everyone. I'm amazed that our DVR is only 160G (it appears there is a 320G option, but the thought of Time Warning springing for anything over the bare minimum is laughable)...storage is so (relatively) cheap now, why would they do that??

I like the four tuner option of the Ceton, but I also like the $80 smaller price of the two-tuner Hauppauge.

We never use PPV, so that isn't a loss. OnDemand would be though...sometimes it's good to just have something to pick for the kiddo to watch. With such an increase over current DVR space though, it wouldn't be anything to just record more shows to have in the hole. I found a 500G HDD sitting around I can add to the HTPC for more storage, so then it'll be 1.5TB.

Thiddy, those averages are great info, thank you! Our main PC serves as our photo, music & home video server already. A dedicated file server in addition to that isn't in the budget. I'll just put the discs in to watch stuff. That much storage isn't an option right now. However, the increase over the current DVR (even if it is 320GB) is very encouraging!

depending on what software you use, i know windows media center for a 30 min show would be like a 2gb file. i have dish now so i dont have that ability anymore, one thing i do miss about cable.

i too use xbmc for music and movies which are stored on my server outside in the mancave it has a whopping less than 1tb of storage over 5 hdd's and i stream it all over wireless G from my mancave outside behind my house to my living in the front of the house, surprisingly with a good pci wireless card im able to stream 12GB 1080p movie files over the G though if some one walks in the bathroom it stutters and if you turn on the microwave you better pause it till its done.
i tried to setup wireless N but it sucks and freaked out constantly so i disabled it.

just noticed this but the front of my pickup in my avatar would be inside the man-cave if it were there then

The MPEG2 data streams for digital HD channels run about ~15 Mbps. My 720p-channel 1-hour recordings are around 4.5 gig. 1080i are around 6.5 gig. I use a 1TB dedicated drive to do recordings but then daily move the recordings off to storage on a home servr. You'll be surprised how much you record once you can. If you have any network storage at all, you can always move recordings and then just set up a second share in WMC so you can always see and play them right from network. Space should really not be an issue. Even an external drive on the HTPC would work.

Personally I would avoid the Hauppauge tuner. It looks like it's really cheap and the support from both Ceton and SD for their CableCARD models is phenomenal. That's just my 2c. If you have problems with your cable company setting up or bad signals, or problems with DRM Ceton or SD will often intercede on your behalf and talk directly to tech people at your company to get the problem resolved.

The other thing you'll need to expect are the SDV switch(es) you'll (I think) need for T-W cable. Those are external boxes that connect to either the computer (ceton) or HDHR via USB and allow you to tune the "non-standard" channels that get delivered by switched video. I'm fairly certain T-W uses SDV.

The HTPC is done! TV tuner will come later; for now, it's a media viewer (photos & home videos), DVD & BluRay player and Hulu/YouTube/Netflix box. Check it out here: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7359398&postcount=50

Well, I placed the HTPC in its home (on top of the 12" sub box in the corner, mostly out of sight) and played around for a few minutes last night. It's great!

DVDs, when played through the PC at the TV's native 1080p look just fine. Sure, they're not high def, but they still look good. MUCH better than an analog hookup through the cable port on the TV, which uses its weak processor to zoom the 4:3 picture (and look horribly jittery). I can definitely live with this for watching movies we already own. Now we just need to go with BluRay in the future.

Hulu has come a loooooong way since I used it last. Back when it first came out, there was little content and the interface was clunky. Apparently they've done some work in the intervening years. It's a solid interface, plenty of content and can be controlled with the WMC remote I got, which is still on sale for $12.99. Streaming via N Wi-Fi on TWC turbo is near flawless.

Speaking of control, I have that remote, a wireless mouse for when it's needed (Logitech refurb, $8 shipped; works just fine) and the occasional keyboard duty is handled via Unified Remote on my phone. Really the only thing that needs a keyboard is YouTube and, on occasion, web browsing. I'm fast enough with my phone for that. Gaming will be a problem. Not sure what to do about that. I have a spare USB keyboard hooked up and lying in the corner (BIOS doesn't appreciate booting without a keyboard attached). Maybe I'll use a USB extension cable. Gaming is a tertiary function of the HTPC and won't be exercised very often.

One thing I do need is a quieter fan on the radiator. In our office, where our main PC has two 140mm fans and three 120mm fans, plus an MCP-350 water pump, you can't even hear this one. In the living room, that's another story. After Christmas I may try to gather the funds to get some strong but quiet PWM fans. We'll see.

Now, a question - I don't have the "Internet TV" option in WMC under the TV menu. I've updated the listings as google results told me to do (which doesn't do a whole lot without a tuner hooked up) and the Internet TV icon still isn't there. Does anyone know how to get that to show up?

I also tried installing MacroTube, but it wouldn't launch from WMC, saying there was an error and asking me if I want to disable the application. So that has been uninstalled for the moment. Does anyone know how to get MacroTube (for YouTube viewing from inside WMC) working? I'm happy to entertain alternative plugins too - I just want YouTube without the browser, if possible.

if you dont want to go wireless on the keyboard, get a usb over ethernet thats what i use on my htpc just put two rj45 jacks in the wall one by the couch and one by the htpc

hokiealumnus said:

Now, a question - I don't have the "Internet TV" option in WMC under the TV menu. I've updated the listings as google results told me to do (which doesn't do a whole lot without a tuner hooked up) and the Internet TV icon still isn't there. Does anyone know how to get that to show up?

Click to expand...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430447/internet-tv-is-gone-from-windows-media-center/0_50

Thank you glorp, that will save me from trying to figure out how to get it back. Guess I'll never know what was available in there. Oh well, can't miss what you never had. Have you tried the referenced revision 3 plugin?

No, sorry, I haven't. I don't use internet streaming tv since i have the cablecard tuner and, (ahem), other non-streaming sources.

I have an HD Homerun Prime 3 tuner using WMC. I would recommend it.

Also SiliconD put out a press release that it will soon become DLNA compatible, so it should be able to stream to tablets/phones soon?

Channel changing is quite fast, haven't noticed a difference between the Prime and a STB.

The reasons I got the Prime over the Ceton was price 200 vs 120, reports the Ceton got pretty hot, and the Prime is already networked to other computers/TVs.

To cut down DVR storage I use Mediacenter Buddy to encode my dvr directory every 2 days to avi and auto remove ads.

I don't think I would ever voluntarily go back to a STB again.

Thanks for the tips w00tstock.

Also, congrats on your 10 year badge!

Any updates on what blu-ray playing software you ended up using? I'm in the market for something myself, but I want something that will seamlessly integrate with WMC!

I don't know there is such a solution. Don't have any br discs at the moment, but I'll probably go with total media theater. It has the best reputation afaik.

hokiealumnus said:

I don't know there is such a solution. Don't have any br discs at the moment, but I'll probably go with total media theater. It has the best reputation afaik.

Click to expand...

Yeah as far as the webpage says, it should work well with WMC. That's the one I was going to go with but just wanted to see if anyone has some input that has actually used it, (or competitors).

I CAN verify a shortcut appears in WMC, but I haven't ever opened it yet.