4770k delid (what TIM)

realmadrid12 · Dec 29, 2013

Hey guys, first time on this side of the game. Ive always been an AMD guy but since Ive been able to afford a high end GPU I needed the better power intel can provide.

I picked up a 4770k and after doing alot of research, ill probably be deliding this chip(after I test if it runs hot at a decent OC). It will be run under a custom loop (7x120 2x140 rad) with the CPU, GPU, and MOSFET in line.

Im not to sure what TIM to use on the CPU die itself. I want to use CLU but I have heard one to many stories about it drying up after awhile and becoming very very hard to clean. Right now im leaning towards ICD 7 for the chip and than MX-4 for the IHS and water block.

Basically I want something that I can throw on the die and not have to worry about for a while. I would love to get some opinions regarding CLU and CLP as I know it can really drop temps dramatically but ICD is only a few degrees behind and doesnt seem to have the same complaints.

Thanks in advance!

Luke1978 · Dec 29, 2013

Never had arctic silver dry up on me, used it on a few topless A64/Opty's back in the day.

Dropped the temps of those around 5-7c across the board.

Make sure your waterblock mounting can accommodate the change in height as well. Dont want the retainers bottoming out before making good contact. Could be why some people have problems with TIM drying out on topless chips.

realmadrid12 · Dec 29, 2013

Luke1978 said:
Never had arctic silver dry up on me, used it on a few topless A64/Opty's back in the day.

Dropped the temps of those around 5-7c across the board.

Make sure your waterblock mounting can accommodate the change in height as well. Dont want the retainers bottoming out before making good contact. Could be why some people have problems with TIM drying out on topless chips.

Im actually going to keep the IHS on the chip. Ive heard people have cracked there cpu without the proper mounts so Id rather not do that

Im going by these tests: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285595

Results: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34297433&postcount=67

AS5 performed pretty badly when its directly on the die as did MX-4.

manu2b · Dec 29, 2013

Use liquid ultra or liquid pro between the die and the IHS, and mx4 or any decent tim between the IHS and the block.

Luke1978 · Dec 29, 2013

realmadrid12 said:
Im actually going to keep the IHS on the chip. Ive heard people have cracked there cpu without the proper mounts so Id rather not do that

Im going by these tests: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285595

Results: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34297433&postcount=67

AS5 performed pretty badly when its directly on the die as did MX-4.

ceramique is what I used, not AS5

realmadrid12 · Dec 30, 2013

manu2b said:
Use liquid ultra or liquid pro between the die and the IHS, and mx4 or any decent tim between the IHS and the block.

Have you ever had CLU dry up and become less effective?

Luke1978 said:
ceramique is what I used, not AS5

Ah ok, that makes sense

Did you have any issues with the "pump out effect" it apparently has?

Luke1978 · Dec 30, 2013

realmadrid12 said:
Ah ok, that makes sense Did you have any issues with the "pump out effect" it apparently has?

Not personally, but I had heard of it. The chips I used got swapped out pretty regularly out of boredom, so I can't comment on long term effects either, like temperature increase over longer periods of time. I do remember using something that actually got better temps after being left alone for a couple weeks, running F@H 24/7. But can't recall what it was.

Ajay57 · Dec 30, 2013

I would say use this for both the Die and IHS, its reconmemded on HWbot for being the best!!

1, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835426020

As you can see its Non-conductive and it does not leak, its what i use for CPU's and GPU's as well!

AJ.

Silver_Pharaoh · Dec 30, 2013

I hate to be the noob here, but what does de-liding do??

realmadrid12 · Dec 30, 2013

Silver_Pharaoh said:
I hate to be the noob here, but what does de-liding do??

No worries, intel stopped soldering there IHS to the cpu die a few generations ago. They replaced it with sub par thermal paste. By removing the IHS and applying better paste some people are seeing 10-20c drops in temps, as well as more even temps between cores. This allows more headroom to OC, or just have a cooler running chip.

Check this out for more info: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285595

Ill be using the "hammer + vice" method:

EDIT: I think there server chips are still soldered, and possible the Es as well

realmadrid12 · Dec 30, 2013

Luke1978 said:
Not personally, but I had heard of it. The chips I used got swapped out pretty regularly out of boredom, so I can't comment on long term effects either, like temperature increase over longer periods of time. I do remember using something that actually got better temps after being left alone for a couple weeks, running F@H 24/7. But can't recall what it was.

Yeah thats what im worried about. I wouldnt mind replacing it every 6-8 months or so, but im not about to do it every few weeks.

Ajay57 said:
I would say use this for both the Die and IHS, its reconmemded on HWbot for being the best!!

1, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835426020

As you can see its Non-conductive and it does not leak, its what i use for CPU's and GPU's as well!

AJ.

Ill do a little research on GC, thanks!

Ajay57 · Dec 30, 2013

To give you a quick idea, on some CPU's Intel used a poor TIM and there was also a gap or space problem. Between the chip and the shield which caused the whole thing to heat up rather than dissipate the heat away.

So by De-Lidding you take away the rubbish TIM and decrease the space between the two surfaces, that then helps to cool things down better and gets rid of the heat problem.

This relates to IB 3770K and Haswell 4770K CPU'S other CPU's Intel used solder which is more efficient way, but more expensive to do!!

I hope that goes some way to answering your question!!

EDIT: http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=71658

This is what you need to read realmadrid12 you will see the one i posted for you came top of the shop!!

AJ.

Silver_Pharaoh · Dec 30, 2013

realmadrid12 said:
No worries, intel stopped soldering there IHS to the cpu die a few generations ago. They replaced it with sub par thermal paste. By removing the IHS and applying better paste some people are seeing 10-20c drops in temps, as well as more even temps between cores. This allows more headroom to OC, or just have a cooler running chip.

Check this out for more info: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285595

Ill be using the "hammer + vice" method:

EDIT: I think there server chips are still soldered, and possible the Es as well

Ajay57 said:
To give you a quick idea, on some CPU's Intel used a poor TIM and there was also a gap or space problem. Between the chip and the shield which caused the whole thing to heat up rather than dissipate the heat away.

So by De-Lidding you take away the rubbish TIM and decrease the space between the two surfaces, that then helps to cool things down better and gets rid of the heat problem.

This relates to IB 3770K and Haswell 4770K CPU'S other CPU's Intel used solder which is more efficient way, but more expensive to do!!

I hope that goes some way to answering your question!!

EDIT: http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=71658

This is what you need to read realmadrid12 you will see the one i posted for you came top of the shop!!

AJ.

Ahh, Thanks guys!
It makes sense now.

EarthDog · Dec 30, 2013

Delidding should only be done in situations where you are heat and not voltage limited. It also voids the warranty and there is a risk of destroying your chip in the process as well. I do not recommend this practice to 99% of users on here as the yields just do not outweigh the risks. For example, you can get to 4.4GHz with the IHS on, but may be able to reach 4.6, 4.7GHzGhz without. Can you notice that in anything but benchmarks? Nope... yet people here seem to recommend it like it is the second coming for your CPU. It will help temps. I have seen a few C to stories of 20C differences, but again, to what end? A couple hundred Mhz?

realmadrid12 · Dec 30, 2013

EarthDog said:
Delidding should only be done in situations where you are heat and not voltage limited. It also voids the warranty and there is a risk of destroying your chip in the process as well. I do not recommend this practice to 99% of users on here as the yields just do not outweigh the risks. For example, you can get to 4.4GHz with the IHS on, but may be able to reach 4.6, 4.7GHzGhz without. Can you notice that in anything but benchmarks? Nope... yet people here seem to recommend it like it is the second coming for your CPU. It will help temps. I have seen a few C to stories of 20C differences, but again, to what end? A couple hundred Mhz?

I dont disagree with you at all. Ill be testing the chip in my system before actually deliding. If I get to a decent OC without the temps being insane than I wont delid it. Im a fan of keeping my components as cool as I possibly can.

Froggy · Jan 2, 2014

EarthDog said:
Delidding should only be done in situations where you are heat and not voltage limited. It also voids the warranty and there is a risk of destroying your chip in the process as well. I do not recommend this practice to 99% of users on here as the yields just do not outweigh the risks. For example, you can get to 4.4GHz with the IHS on, but may be able to reach 4.6, 4.7GHzGhz without. Can you notice that in anything but benchmarks? Nope... yet people here seem to recommend it like it is the second coming for your CPU. It will help temps. I have seen a few C to stories of 20C differences, but again, to what end? A couple hundred Mhz?

I mostly agree with your statement, however there is an issue not being "promoted". For every 10C drop in temps, there is a corresponding doubling of CPU/GPU lifespan.

I realize that most people aren't keeping their components long enough for it to practically matter but some are.

Also if it lowers the amount of volts needed for a given clock speed it will also slow the destructive electro-migration process which is more likely for OCed CPU's & GPU's.

EarthDog · Jan 2, 2014

I'd love to see a link supporting that sentiment...

That said, as you mentioned, that point isn't terribly relevent. Those that are keeping CPUs would likely are not overclocking and surely shoukdnt be delidding in the first place as it is only benefits enthusiasts anyway.

The little temp gains will not allow you to lower volts. This isn't ln2. 5(rare) to 20c(rare) will not allow one to lower voltage any amount that would matter.

So you are correct, cooler temps will keep a processor longer (though 2x seems outlandish to me) but even with overclocking and keeping reasonable volts, so long as the temps are under Tjmax, your cpu will live a long long life without such efforts for little gains.

Silver_Pharaoh · Jan 2, 2014

Froggy said:
I mostly agree with your statement, however there is an issue not being "promoted". For every 10C drop in temps, there is a corresponding doubling of CPU/GPU lifespan.

I realize that most people aren't keeping their components long enough for it to practically matter but some are.

Also if it lowers the amount of volts needed for a given clock speed it will also slow the destructive electro-migration process which is more likely for OCed CPU's & GPU's.

EarthDog said:
I'd love to see a link supporting that sentiment...

That said, as you mentioned, that point isn't terribly relevent. Those that are keeping CPUs would likely are not overclocking and surely shoukdnt be delidding in the first place as it is only benefits enthusiasts anyway.

The little temp gains will not allow you to lower volts. This isn't ln2. 5(rare) to 20c(rare) will not allow one to lower voltage any amount that would matter.

So you are correct, cooler temps will keep a processor longer (though 2x seems outlandish to me) but even with overclocking and keeping reasonable volts, so long as the temps are under Tjmax, your cpu will live a long long life without such efforts for little gains.

As far as I recall, electro-migration was only really a big issue with Northwood P4's...

But I'm no overclocker, so I'm probably wrong.
I too would like to see some links, it would be an interesting read...

Oh while I'm here: What does TIM mean? Thermal... what?

realmadrid12 · Jan 2, 2014

Silver_Pharaoh said:
Oh while I'm here: What does TIM mean? Thermal... what?

Thermal Interface Material

MongGrel · Jan 2, 2014

EarthDog said:
Delidding should only be done in situations where you are heat and not voltage limited. It also voids the warranty and there is a risk of destroying your chip in the process as well. I do not recommend this practice to 99% of users on here as the yields just do not outweigh the risks. For example, you can get to 4.4GHz with the IHS on, but may be able to reach 4.6, 4.7GHzGhz without. Can you notice that in anything but benchmarks? Nope... yet people here seem to recommend it like it is the second coming for your CPU. It will help temps. I have seen a few C to stories of 20C differences, but again, to what end? A couple hundred Mhz?

I've been tempted but have never tried it myself, seems a bit high risk, yeah.

4770k delid (what TIM)

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Likes the big ones n00b Member

Member

Member

Member

Likes the big ones n00b Member

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner

Member

Member

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner

Likes the big ones n00b Member

Member

New Member

Similar threads