New Type cooling fans

I thought i'd post here as Joe didn't seem to take any notice of my mail to him so...

..a new type of fan from YS Tech is being brought out soon that might be the answer to CPU cooling and the noise that fans seem to produce. TMD design fans are soon gonna be out and after reading up on them I have decided to wait till purchasing my fans, upgrading the chip then overclocking. I can't bear the thought of those fans keeping me up at night or ruining the best suspense moments in my games (plus i'd be in the creek without a paddle if I went with water cooling anf fluffed it, LOL).


Matt
P.S. I have nothing to do with YS TECH but did email them and suggested that if overclockers.com were to contact them they'd send samples etc for them to review (good or bad). If the reviews go well i'll buy a few (4 or 5) else i might gain some balls and try water cooling *gulp*

Do you have any pics of the new fans?

I believe he is refereing to the new magneto-tip drive fans (ok shoot me if that name is not quite right. They are supposedly quieter at the same CFM as normal axial fans and also have a MUCH decrased central hub which means less of a 'dead spot' for your fan. Also I believe the center hub is the same size for all sizes therefor a 120mm fan will have the same small center as a 50mm. Meaning maybe using those 60-80mm fan adapters would also work better. How they work is they have driving magnets at the four corners that push the tips along (one side pulls the tip then when it reachs the magnet the other side pushes it..if I understand right). Anyway as you can see there is no centra motor so basically the center hub is just a bearing with blades attached, meaning it can be very small. They are not out yet, although they are already manufactured. This concept actually isnt new, these types of fans are used in other applications. It will be inetresting to see how strong the magnets are, and wether or not they will interfer with computer components.

Josh

Fan site ;-)

goto www.ystech.com.tw for piccies and full tech lowdown

Soz for this being brief but forums playing up on comp it seems with not posting msgs...hmm

Matt

ok forum working now.. confused.. oh well....

About 2 weeks or more ago (Still have emails) I contacted Ystech regarding there new fans as this seemed the perfect solution for low noise high performance (non-extreme cooling). Once i had all the info (He kept trying to send me emails over 1 meg and kept failing (not suprsisingly) I contacted joe but nothing seemed to come from that so i have posted here. Ystech (Daniel C. Cheng) is more than eager for us to test there new product and will send free samples (as long as we pay delivery). I would pay for it myself to test but have fdo not have the experience of the equipment for a fair test like most of the peeps dedicated to overclockers.com. I think if these fans are as good as I hope they are then it means less people wandering the streets screaming "the noise, the constant noise!!!!" (u get the idea)

That's the best news I've heard in a long time for air cooled heatsinks. Can't wait for some company to pick up that model and sell it stateside.

If they are not outlandishly priced, I could see a lot of people taking that 6 pound hand maul to their Delta 38cfm fans, just to pay them back!

Hoot

Hoot, I read some of their stuff on it over at their site and it sounds like it should be even easier to manufacture than present fans, so I can't see it costing much more(if any ) than a comperable premium fan such as a panaflo.

I was planning on getting some YStech 3/4 speed fans with around 32 dBa for decent airflow (The delta was outta my range for a sensible price for a fan and frankly to damn loud) so when I saw this stuff on the site i was over 'interested' some what. I think i may need a new motherboard though as in error I bought a Jetway board that didn't have integrated thermal monitoring d'oH!

Matt

very cool!
when are these coming out...??

All the info is on www.ystech.com.tw about the fans, i'm suprised that oc.com haven't been saying anything yet about them, i felt like i was entering virgin territory when contacting ystech dirtectly lol!!

The site info makes very good reading. Will there be a ny rivals with this technology or will it actualy be any good? This is why I tried to get Oc.com involved cos i can't test the stuff myself, i just don't have the experience or the kit to do it.

I think April sees the pentium fan coming ou and may the Amd style. Case fans? Hopefully ;-)

Matt

Well I just read thru the PDF which seem to be missing pages 1-4 out of six pages so I couldnt tell what size of fan they were using.

This is what they are suppose to look like.

It's not that new of a concept. I worked with a company(E.G. Rotron) back in 1990 that gave me some test reports on a tip driven fan they developed back in the early 80's, Very similar to the YSTECH fan. other earlier work was done by the germans.

They operate at low static pressure. 75% of your fan flow/static pressure occurs in the last 25% of the blade chord measured from the fan tip. With no hub to block the low pressure field in the center the air tends to circulate back out through the center causing a flow pressue loss.

The fan is very similar to what you would see in a refrigertor or ventilating fan not really the ideal heat sink fan.

A better heat sink fan would a vane axial with a hub that starts small and increases in dia as the air goes through the fan, increasing velocity. This creates a postive pressure gradient preventing fan slip or stalling so the fan can achieve pressure/performance near some centrifugal applications.


I have made externally ducted fans(external duct was part of the fan) that eliminated the "dead spot" without reducing the hub dia. the advatage was minimal, maybe 2%? It's like adding a 30mm fan at the center running at 4000 rpm it will add 1/4- 1/2 cfm to to your flow.

Another company I worked with, Airflow Research in MA designed fans with rings attached to the fan for car radiators. While it eliminated the tip vortex, a major noise source. Other vortices would form where the fan tips joined the ring. It had some overall noise advange but nothing real significant and no major performance gain over any other well designed fan.

There are other obvious issues related to form factor that cause application issues.

Fans have been around for 100 years and the prior art field is pretty crowded. A well designed ventilating fan has aerodynamic eff. approaching 80-85%. With small electronic fans the best you see is around 35%. With a combined mechanical only about 10-13%. Little effort has actually been spent on small scale aerodynamics and any effort in that direction is good to see as I think there is much room for improvement

Probably case ventilation would the best use IMHO.

Another thing to note: Ys tech's own data PQ sheets for 60mm on a system resistance curve outperform the new fan 30-50%. Adjusting to equal flow for noise it may have a 2-3dBA advantage



http://www.ystech.com.tw/FanPDF/FD6025.pdf

....and to think I was getting all excited about air movement !! lol

Right whos gonna design a turbine style device now? (just help me ignore the info on water dynamics for turbine use ;-) )

Matt

Unfortunately, it looks they're only gonna be making them in 60, 70 and 80mm versions (at least in the beginning). Hope someone starts making bigger TMD fans for case/radiator cooling.

I didn't see anything on their site pertaining to EMI . . . I'd be reluctant to put any kind electro-magnet driven fan inside my PC . . .

Normal electric motors are electro-magnetic too.
Besides, if you look at this page http://www.ystech.com.tw/Tmd/tmd-1.htm it looks like there's less magnetic disturbance, it says:
"Optimized magnetic line of induction results in low magnetic hysteresis and thus increases in torque."
"Magnetic line of induction in traditional motor has to go through the metal tube and then to the magnetic poles. This increases in magnetic hysteresis and results in low torque."
"The magnetic line of induction of T.M.D. motor is vertically directed to the permanent magnet. This optimized magnetic line of induction presents low magnetic hysteresis and results in increased torque."

looks like a good idea for heat sink applicatin, but they have no advantage when used in a case because there are no problems caused by having a dead spot in the middle as there is nothing to cool.

The only advantage I see in using it on case applications is the reduced noise.