Athlon 64 3000+: Pimping An Orphan?

UnseenMenace · Dec 23, 2003

Full Article - Overclockers.com

From The Article "Athlon 64 3000+: Pimping An Orphan?" - Ed Stroligo - 12/13/03

The Athlon 64 3000+ has been released, and it is available for as low as $240.

Should you buy one?

The answer to that question is another question. Do you want an expensive quick fling, or do you want a (fairly) long-term relationship.

A Quick Fling

This Athlon 64 is going to be obsoleted fairly quickly. AMD looks like it plans to move away from socket 754 to socket 939 for mainstream systems in 2004, leaving socket 754 for its value line.

This is probably because the Athlon 64 platform is a paradox: a high-performance engine with small fuel lines. If you want a performance system, especially for gaming, you need dual-channel memory. If you don't have it, that's a performance anchor that will become heavier and heavier as time goes on.

If performance isn't that important to you, or you do things that don't really require memory bandwidth, the Athlon 64 is overkill (at least given the price for the processor).

Perhaps more importantly, a generational shift in motherboards is imminent. This will consist of the following:

# SATA becoming the primary hard drive standard
# PCI Express becoming the video card standard
# DDR2 replacing DDR
# (At least for Intel) BTX replacing ATX as the motherboard form factor standard

Intel will implement the first three with its next-generation chipset, and complete the transition at the end of 2004 with its "Bigwater" motherboard for Tejas.

AMD looks like it will take smaller steps. The next generation of Hammer mobos will implement the first two changes. Memory will probably follow sometime in 2005, and we'll just have to see about form factor.

Buy an Athlon 64 now, and you miss out on all of this. On the other hand, missing out on all of this means you may be able to recycle more of your current system (i.e., memory and video card), thus reducing your upgrade cost.

Then again, too, an overclocked Athlon 64 is also likely to generally do a little bit better than the average overclocked PIV system. Depending on how Prescott does and when socket 939 shows up, you'll have a couple to a few more months of glory. But that's it.

NOTE This Information Is Edited :- Reading The Full Article Is Recomended

1) Do you currently own a socket 754 mobo?, are you considering getting one?, or are you waiting for Socket 939 boards
2) Do you own a AMD64? are you considering getting one, if so for what reason given the performance indications of this article
3) What do you think of the article and Ed's views

Skiing Squirrel · Dec 24, 2003

1) I am considering getting a 754 motherboard, because the benchmarks for gaming has been impressive.
2) Again, I am considering this, but also considering a dual 64 solution.
3) Ed's views on this aren't too good. First off, he says that if I go FX right now, I miss out on onboard sata. This is wrong, because I have seen alot of motherboards with sata on them. It seems he is trying to steer people away from it.

"We just don't think going socket 754 at this point is a terribly good idea or value for most people in this audience."

Who is this 'we' is he referring too? The overclocker crowd? The AMD crowd? I am assuming he is talking to at least one of the two mention, and I do not think everyone agrees with this view. I look at it this way: socket A is getting old. a 2.2 socket A can't compete with a 2.2 FX double channel or not. If I got a 940 socket, I have to get registered ram which is quite costly.

Dragonprince · Dec 24, 2003

I think the writer misses the same old argument we all see every time we want to buy some new piece of PC gear. Name one single computer component or CPU you can buy right now today that wont be outdated in less than a year. P4EE is already outdated, socket change on the way. FX-51, same deal. Athlon XP, history. Alpha's ? History.

SATA is available now on almost every platform. Does this mean your PATA drives are no good ? Of course not. Should you hold off on buying a new DVD drive or hard drive because an SATA one might be better? Up to you but most reviews say there's no real advantage except bragging rights.

DDR2 ? Sounds like RAMBUS all over again. And if its not so what. By the time DDR2 is common your system will be old news anyway.

PCI Express is like DDR2. By the time it is wide spread your AGP card will be old tech anyway. That does not mean you need to replace your AGP card. We all know there are no games available that can saturate the AGP bus and with 256m AGP cards available the likelyhood of ever saturating the AGP bus is slim, at least for a couple of years.

If the writer is trying to tell you not to buy an Atlon64 because it will be old tech soon my response is "What's your point?"

Shall we wait forever to buy the perfect "never needs to be replaced" PC ? Good luck.

XWRed1 · Dec 24, 2003

I've got an amd64 box right now, I'm posting from it even. I built it because I got the proc for free, I wouldn't have bought an s754 processor by choice.

Don't have to wait much for 64bit software either, EVERYTHING on it with the exception of the bootloader is 64bit:

Audioaficionado · Dec 24, 2003

Yeah, gotta love the ability of 64bit Linux to compile apps from source for 64bit optimization. Gentoo does this and some others too that I can't remember right now.

dropadrop · Jan 12, 2004

The link in the first post points to the wrong article (dvd recorder)

The answer to that question is another question. Do you want an expensive quick fling, or do you want a (fairly) long-term relationship.

This is one of the most important questions raised, personally I think most people here change motherboards and processors fairly often.

This Athlon 64 is going to be obsoleted fairly quickly. AMD looks like it plans to move away from socket 754 to socket 939 for mainstream systems in 2004, leaving socket 754 for its value line.

This is probably because the Athlon 64 platform is a paradox: a high-performance engine with small fuel lines. If you want a performance system, especially for gaming, you need dual-channel memory. If you don't have it, that's a performance anchor that will become heavier and heavier as time goes on.

If performance isn't that important to you, or you do things that don't really require memory bandwidth, the Athlon 64 is overkill (at least given the price for the processor).

Looking at the recent reviews, it does'nt look like the narrow memory-buss is cripling the processor. I feel like the performance is still far better then what you are getting from anything else in the pricerange? Socket 939 is very tempting, but it won't be affordable before mid-summer. (possibly even later)

Perhaps more importantly, a generational shift in motherboards is imminent. This will consist of the following:

# SATA becoming the primary hard drive standard
# PCI Express becoming the video card standard
# DDR2 replacing DDR
# (At least for Intel) BTX replacing ATX as the motherboard form factor standard

Intel will implement the first three with its next-generation chipset, and complete the transition at the end of 2004 with its "Bigwater" motherboard for Tejas.

AMD looks like it will take smaller steps. The next generation of Hammer mobos will implement the first two changes. Memory will probably follow sometime in 2005, and we'll just have to see about form factor.

We are now talking about changes that will happen one year from now... I have also read speculations that ddr2 will not offer better performance in the beginning due to higher latencys. I'm not an expert on this, but if it's true, it could actually be better to get a motherboard that allows you to benefit from your current low latency ddr! Most people I know have bought radeon 9700 - 9800 videocards, and are not planning on upgrading them in the near future. If you think about it this way, it could actually be better to upgrade now, before the changes occure.

Then again, too, an overclocked Athlon 64 is also likely to generally do a little bit better than the average overclocked PIV system. Depending on how Prescott does and when socket 939 shows up, you'll have a couple to a few more months of glory. But that's it.

I wonder when there will be an upgrade available that will give you more then a couple of months of glory?

Personally I'm waiting to see how the nforce 3 250 chipset will be, it should be coming out pretty soon. If it's good I don't see any reason not to build a system based on it. Yes, upgrade choises will be limitecd. I am however noticing that recently I have'nt really been upgrading only the processor, rather the motherboard and processor at the same time. I think socket 754 offers a fairly cheap upgrade that will give you top notch performance on current standards, and keep you happy untill tejas / very well overclocking A64's. Even though amd's current roadmap shows future 754 processors to be 32bit, I would'nt be suprised if there where 64bit versions coming out too. Even if it does'nt happen, I don't see what kind of upgrade path you would have getting a P4 now.

DayUSeX · Jan 13, 2004

yeah Im not buying a AMD till a few revisions down the road. If i had a 800mhz machine those 3000+ would look pretty attractive but i dont. I really hope AMD gets thier act together though, as i really want to see the AMD64 do well.

Audioaficionado · Jan 13, 2004

Unless dual 939 Opterons are affordable this next Q2, I'll most likely go with a dual Xeon 32bit SMP platform this spring.

If I really get the hankering to play with 64bits, I'll just get the (by then) cheaper 754 single CPU setup and install/compile 64bit Gentoo and apps.

DayUSeX · Jan 13, 2004

yup audioaficionado, that is wha ti just did wen intel SMP, and getting the cheap 754 if there is a cool 64bit app out by then.

dropadrop · Jan 13, 2004

http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1947

Seems socket 754 won't be forgotten quite so soon!

DayUSeX · Jan 13, 2004

yeah but according to the AMD road map 754 is goign to be for the budget market, not semthing to get too excited about..

DrSlinky · Jan 15, 2004

1) Do you currently own a socket 754 mobo?, are you considering getting one?, or are you waiting for Socket 939 boards

The only thing holding me back, at this point, is the operating system. I'm not familiar enough with Linux to move to it, so I'm waiting for this 64bit revision of XP to hit the market. At that point, I'll probably have no qualms about getting an A64, be it 754 or 939.

Audioaficionado · Jan 15, 2004

You can dual boot 32bit XP and Gentoo Linux until 64bti AMD widows gets released. You could also just run 32bit XP on the first partition and reserve a second partition for future 64bit AMD XP installation.

DrSlinky · Jan 20, 2004

You can dual boot 32bit XP and Gentoo Linux until 64bti AMD widows gets released. You could also just run 32bit XP on the first partition and reserve a second partition for future 64bit AMD XP installation.

I've contemplated this in the past, but I'm just not comfortable with a dual boot system. Just one of my quirks. I built another PC out of mostly spare parts when I decided I wanted a Linux box to play with.

Something I heard earlier this week really sparked my curiousity. A coworker of mine had someone give him an A64, so he went ahead and built a system around it. I asked him why he'd use that, instead of the P4 3.0 he was running, mainly because he's a big gamer. He told me that, running 64 bit Linux, he's able to play most DX9 games with Wine, without a problem. Anyone else able to confirm or refute this?

XWRed1 · Jan 21, 2004

That is bogus.

1) Wine can only run a handful of DX8 games even, DX9 is still very much not common. You certainly can't pick random games off the shelf and expect many of them to run.

2) The drivers Nvidia has on their site only accelerate 64bit apps.

Athlon 64 3000+: Pimping An Orphan?

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