1090T OC - can't reach 4ghz - very close to it

[bogdans06]

Thank you!

I've made some research and I would want to share my current thoughts.

I can sell my current CPU (1090T) with 77$ and buy 8350 at 140$. The difference I would pay is 63$ for the FX 8350 CPU.
I found out that even if the performance gain for crossfire is impressive, a lot of problems appear with it and it requires a lot of power, which forces me to upgrade the PSU. A good 750W PSU is ~ 130$ and I might be unable to sell the current one at decent price, thus I would lose a lot of money.
A better way would be to stick to a single-card configuration, therefore, I looked at HD 7970, which I can buy at 150$. Supposing that I can sell the HD 6970 with at least 100$, this would mean extra 50$.

So, a total of 113$ for upgrading 1090T -> FX 8350 and HD 6970 -> HD 7970. My 1600mhz RAM would run natively at its stock speed and I could OC the FX a little.

I know that, in real world, the difference from 1090T to 8350 is very small in terms of performance, I've made my research I know you are right. However, considering the fact that I'm buying a used CPU and if, hypothetically, these numbers were real, would you do this upgrade if price difference is so small? (63$ for the CPU and 50$ for the video).

Thank you and please tell me if I should go in another section with these questions.

 

[Johan45]

You've given some thought to this I see.
A couple things I would mention, first it the 1090T, you should get more than 77 dollars for it just check EBay they still go for a better price than you think http://www.ebay.com/sch/ctg/AMD-Phe...Hz-Six-Core-HDT90ZFBGRBOX-Processor-/82248288. Secondly I do question the 8350 and a 7970 with an aging Enermax PSU. It provides 20A on each rail and both of these parts are going to use a lot of that. Likely 16+ for each one. Now I don't know how old the PSU is but I know they're not available any longer and as they age they stand more chance of failing. It will likely be fine but I would plan on replacing it at some point in the near future.

 

[bogdans06]

I bought the PSU on 2011-07-27 (as a new product).

These are the specifications provided with it:

Type: ATX 12V 2.3
Power:600 W
Numar ventilatoare 1x 120 mm
PFC Active
Efficiency 86 %
Certificare 80+
Dimensions 150 x 140 x 86 mm
Modulara Nu
Protections OVP, UVP, SCP, OPP, SIP
Voltaje/Amperaje
+3.3V 25 A
+5V 25 A
+12V 1 20 A
+12V 2 20 A
-12V 0.8 A
+5Vsb 3 A
Conectori
20+4 Pin ATX 1
4+4 Pin ATX/EPS 1
6+2 PCI-E 2
SATA 7
Molex 4
Floppy 1

 

[Johan45]

Thanks for that but I had already checked the specs and assumed it was probably 4-5 years old. After the five year mark things do tend to wear out on most PSU. You should have a year or so left on it. If you notice any odd shut down after assembly it might be prudent to get another one.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Thanks for that but I had already checked the specs and assumed it was probably 4-5 years old. After the five year mark things do tend to wear out on most PSU. You should have a year or so left on it. If you notice any odd shut down after assembly it might be prudent to get another one.

Agreed!

 

[RGone]

Well this thread had been sort of dormant a few days...

...so I went back to the beginning and I find this >> Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3 << in order to consider an FX-8350 over a 1090T at close to 4.0Ghz, you will need to clock that FX-8350 to about 4.5Ghz or dang close to it. Real close to it.

You need to look for the PCB revision number at the lower left but front edge of the mobo as it is normally mounted upright in a case. The PCB revision is there and it makes another huge difference as to what revision the board is before jumping head first into the HEAT and power requirements of FX-8350 cpu.

1. I have motherboard doubts. PCB revision???

2. Power supply doubts.

3. Maybe even cooling doubts when speaking to needing a good 4.5Ghz overclock.

Now this I will say since this thread seems revived over video performance. I don't see an FX-8350 just jumping ahead of 1090T in FPS in most games today. Has not seemed the case for most people.

If I had to relieve my bottlenecking thoughts, I would take my money and now sell the 1090T for a little more than you expected and get a relatively inexpensive Intel mobo and i5 processor. You could REuse your ram. Your cooling would be far more than adequete and the need to overclock would be a thing to do only if you wanted to do so. And the power supply 'might' even get bye for a little longer. I just cannot see getting rid of the 1090T in an effort to get FPS and talk of cpu bottlenecked video card. It just does not seem overly logical. Going Intel does seem logical when bottlenecking coversation is invovled.
RGone...

 

[bogdans06]

1. MB revision is 1.0
2. The power supply is a problem with any CPU since it's old, thus I'll change it when it dies.
3. I'm not considering changing the current cooling system.

The only reason I took into consideration this upgrade is that the extra money I pay for it is ~50$, not 200$. I can take a new FX 8350 for 130$, and it actually costs 230$ at my favorite computer shop. With the video card is the same situation, I pay another 50$ to upgrade from HD 6970 to HD 7970 (ghz edition). I already talked with the guy and I'm going to test the card on Saturday.

If you think I shouldn't buy the FX 8350 for extra 50$ while I have a HD 7970 video card, I will not do it. Another think which I want to point out is that the gaming is not the only target of this upgrade, since I'm a programmer and I work a lot in intensive applications (IDEs) which take a lot of memory. I also work with heuristic algorithms (machine learning, genetic algorithms etc) where I might be helped by more cores since these algorithms tend to take a lot of time to run.

 

[RGone]

This mobo...

...1. MB revision is 1.0 << absolutely sucks with FX processor if my history lessons are accurate and the reason the Rev 1.1 was shortly forthcoming. Rev 1.1 was just okay with FX processor and not sure how the Rev 1.2 of that board worked. The Rev 3.0 of the board drove many to drink is my guess and then they brought out the Rev 4.0 for a while and replaced it with the newer 970 UD3P which is fair.

I suspected you to say you had a Rev 3.0 for some reason and had no earthly idea you actually would have the very first revision which was just not working well with FX and they released very quickly the Rev 1.1 which was okay but not stellar.

Most people act about their computers as if they were in some sort of clandestine activity and seldom say what they really want to do with their rigs. It is nice to know you actually really DO work with your system and not just game alone. Nothing wrong with gaming but most real work requires different options and if not different options then certainly a different level of stability.

Two more cores if the software is FX 4 module and 8 partial core aware, might add some speed. Some software is just not yet multicore aware. I assume the main 'work' type software you use is multi-core aware. However you mention ram and that would be where I might concentrate my first efforts toward. That is if you can find matching ram to that you already have. Most users have difficulty running mis-matched kits. I even run mis-matched ram speed and kits in my CHV-z and overclock it as well, but it takes special care in the ram setup section to make work and the ram is by GSkill and I think that is a bonus as well.


G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-14900CL8Q-16GBZM

That ram is DDR3-1866 which you might not be able to use at that speed but it has tighter timings than most DDR3-1866 ram and that is a pure bonus. You could run it at DDR3-1600 and maybe even a little tighter on timings...BUT if you made a move to FX processor with another board or even to Intel, the ram would not be wasted at all. No the ram will not help gaming. It should help your actual work endeavors though.

Your 'stuff' just happens to be too early making it elder for FX and it is hard to upgrade in a piece-meal manner in my gut.
RGone...

EDIT:
I say Rev 1.0 of your board is not well suited to FX processor because you most certainly need to overclock the FX to keep up with even your current processor in gaming and certainly if you want to keep up with say an i5 Intel in gaming.
END EDIT.

 

[bogdans06]

Thanks for the very rich explanation! I'm not changing the MB for FX. I will stick with the 1090T and I will probably have some other attempts in "balancing" the current OC. I'm also thinking about enabling some features like Cool and quitet in order to reduce the cpu stress and power consumption when the computer is not fully loaded.

This will be the last question regarding the aforementioned "upgrade" attempt. I know there is a lot of information on the Internet and I read it, but from your experience and viewpoint, does it make any sense to upgrade from HD 6970 to HD 7970 on my 1090T setup? I'm looking forward to obtaining more FPS in games like Assassin's Creed Unity, BF4, Crysis3 (and other upcoming games) on ultra settings 1920x1080@60hz. I would say at least 10FPS. It is important for me since I found a good, used card to buy and I have to decide if this system worths the effort or not. I always though the 1090T was bottlenecking my HD6970, but especially with the current OC, I don't think that anymore. That card meets my expectations on Intel setups, I only need to know if my 1090T @ ~4ghz can face the gaming level I intend to raise it up at.

I only play games 5h per week probably, but when I do, I want the best performance I can afford (as long as we do not exaggerate).

Thank you very much!

 

[RGone]

it would depend on the price of the 290 card...

...on the card and if I thought I would be happy with the card for awhile. See to me it does not make any difference if what I have "now" might bottleneck some; knowing that probably in the not so far off future I might upgrade the whole thing but the Video card if it came to it.

Pretty sure the 7970 will perform better than 6970. No matter some slight bottleneck. Bottleneck visible to the human eye? Doubt it.

Here is link to some what appear to be level playing field runs, one against the other.

Apples-to-Apples 7950 vs. 7970 vs. 6970

So the price of the 290 and my willingness to use it for awhile and even thru further upgrades would determine my buying or not buying. That is me you asked and me that answered. Not they said or somebody said but you asked me. I answered exactly what I would do.
RGone...

 

[Giz]

Upgraded from Phenom II 940 to my 1090T about 6 months ago. It's the best cpu for clocking I've had in years. Coolest running too. My 940 used to idle at 40C watercooled and hit 55C max, 1.5volts

This 1090T idles at 33C with less volts and doesn't go above 48C on Prime95 and folding. 1.48V

Read loads of reviews before buying so soon as it was in I ramped the multiplyer up in the bios to 4200mhz. Day to day stuff and gaming it ran great. Failed a few prime95 runs though so I've lowered it to 4.12 rock solid.

PC specs are in my sig. Multiplyer is x 20.5, bus speed 201.3mhz, HT link 2013mhz. 1.48v, Ram set to 1066, runs at about 1072, 5, 5, 5, 18, 24.

Need any specific bios settings let me know. PC's running flat out folding at the mo.

 

[Jurugi]

Take a look at my settings perhaps
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...-Overclock-Guide-(4-0ghz)(50-cooler)(max-45C)

I've been running at 4.0gHz at the turbo boost state and 3.8gHz on the performance state. Considering it's clocked at 3.2-3.6 going to 3.8-4.0 for nothing is nice.

You can run any optimized game at like 4x core 3.0ghz, so you should be set even without overclocking. The only difference will be in 3dmark or comparison scores (in my opinion).

It's a great and cheap chip to achieve ~4.0ghz and still maintain the gap between the whole 'no one application is fully using 4 cores, so why need 8 cores' argument. Having 6 cores is a good in-between. It's surely a good upgrade if you want to stay with your AM2+/AM3 motherboard and try to prolong its life, but again it's not competitive against the other stuff in comparison scores.

Anyway, from my experience using this processor, just make sure your temps are under control. Do a stability test (100% load on all cores) on Prime95 for at least 2 hours if you think you have the right settings. Even this is sometimes overkill because nothing will ever cause that to happen , but it's good to know it will be stable. Tweaking the voltage and multiplier is most stable way to overclock on this chip in my opinion.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Had a 1090T that was stable at 3.8ghz and was a prayer for 4ghz submission. It's a toss up. I've seen 4.4ghz 1090T on daily liquid, had myself a couple of Phenom IIs run that daily, 565BE and 980BE both would run 4.4ghz respectively around 1.6v 50c load temps roughly.

Got a C2 955BE here on DDR2 that's just like this OPs 1090T. 3955mhz stable Prime95. 4ghz and up errors on core #3. But will game all evening.

 

[bogdans06]

Since my CPU is stable at ~ 3.94 Ghz, I decided to give up to the FSB-way overclocking and get back to the multiplier-only OC.

Therefore, my current settings are the following:
Bus Speed: 200 (default)
CPU: 3900 mhz (200 * 19.5)
CPU Voltage: 1.45v (1.30v + 0.15v offset)
HT Link: 2000 mhz
CPU-NB: 2600 mhz
CPU-NB Voltage: 1.25v (1.15v + 0.1v offset)
RAM: 1600 mhz @ 9-9-9-24-33-2T
RAM Voltage: 1.65v

The advantages are that I could raise up the CPU-NB and RAM to 2600 and 1600 mhz respectively.

Tested stability with P95 Blend Mode for 7 hours, max temp 53C
P95 Max system consumption and Unigine Valley simultaneusly: CPU max temp: 56C.
RAM tested with memtest86+: no errors.

I also upgraded my HD 6970 to Sapphire R9 280x Vapor-X for 70$. I can play Assassin's Creed Unity, BF3 and BF4 on absolutely MAX settings @ 1920x1080 and the gameplay runs smooth. The only thing which is not maxed is on AC Unity, the AA setting is FXAA instead of 8x MSAA.

I think I can not get 4ghz on my 1090T, since I would need a much better cooling and I do not want to invest in that (I already have Scythe Mugen in push-pull and many case fans). I am happy with 3.9ghz CPU and 2600mhz CPU-NB.

The next upgrade consists on buying a SSD and installing Windows 8.1.

If you think that anything may be wrong in my decisions, please say it.

 

[RGone]

Your post is in a thread that for most of us is finished. If you really have need of help, it is best to begin your own thread.

That said you are the one to determine about where you wish to stay with an overclock. You are happy then we are bouncing off the walls.

SSDs are probably the biggest performance boosting you can do for yourself.

IF I had to buy Win 8.1...well I would not waste my money but get Win 10 when it comes out.
RGone...

 

[Giz]

+1 on the SSD. Best thing ive fitted. Boot up time used to be painfully slow at nearly a minute. Now I'm in Windows just under 30 seconds.

Fitted a 1T Seagate hybrid drive to my sons pc and that has similar boot times now. So if your looking for performance AND lots of storage consider a hybrid.

 

[bogdans06]

Your post is in a thread that for most of us is finished. If you really have need of help, it is best to begin your own thread.

I'm sorry, I posted in another thread by mistake.

 

[bogdans06]

I changed the CPU-NB from 2600 to 2800mhz with the same voltage (1.25v). It has been stable so far in P95 Blend mode for almost 5 hours. Anyway, I will test it for 10 more hours.

My new settings:
Bus Speed: 200 (default)
CPU: 3900 mhz (200 * 19.5)
CPU Voltage: 1.45v (1.30v + 0.15v offset)
HT Link: 2000 mhz
CPU-NB: 2800 mhz
CPU-NB Voltage: 1.25v (1.15v + 0.1v offset)
RAM: 1600 mhz @ 9-9-9-24-33-2T
RAM Voltage: 1.65v

I remember that I put a lot of thermal paste (Arctic Silver 5) on my CPU and I heard that it may cause negative effects. I will reinstall the thermal paste tomorrow, by only spreading a very thin layer on the CPU. Maybe it will enhance my results and I will retry 4ghz. I think I only need 1.475-1.5v and slightly fewer degress for that.

 

[Johan45]

Good job on the NB, It's possible that you could gain a degree or two with a remount but not likely. The temps and volts are quite in line as what to expect. If I were going to go through the trouble I would pick up a slightly better paste. AS5 is good but there is better and if you're looking for the last couple of degrees you may want to consider something different. Also AS5 tends to bond quite well so, if you do remove the HS. Heat the system up first and then remove it with a twisting motion. CPUs have been pulled right out of the socket on more than one occasion because of a good bond with the Heatsink.

 

[bogdans06]

Thanks for advice!

I think I can reach 4ghz with max 1.5v, but the max temps are going to be 56-58C. Is it OK if it's stable and if these are the absolute max temps on P95? I always stopped at 55C. 4ghz with 2800mhz CPU-NB would be a very nice mix.

I keep the OC settings 24/7 with all MB CnQ, C1E etc. turned off.