2.8ghz ~ Watercooling ~ SLi 7900GT CO & Crap peformance

[Jofaba]

Hey guys (and girls), it's Jofaba from Totalbf2.com. Here's what I've been doing for the past two months:

First, let me start off with my rig. This on a fresh Windows install (Friday night) and all new drivers, and every piece of hardware has it's own IRQ:

1) AMD 3200+ Venice @ 2.8ghz 1.67v with IHS removed
It's 3DMARK stable but I haven't had a chance to really test it yet. My idle is around 22c with 2 day old AS5 application.

2) 2X eVGA 7900GT CO Superclocks at stock speed of 550/1580. Currently I'm running the stock heatsink/fan combo which is pretty ineffective, but if NvTempLogger is to be believed, I don't pass 70c with my side door open (as it is currently).

3) 2X 1GB OCZ Platinum (OCZ4002048ELDCPE-K). I haven't brought the timings down yet, so currently sitting at 3-3-2-5 2T @ 231mhz (462 effective)

4) DFI Lanparty UT SLi-D Expert

5) 74GB 10K Raptor for OS and Games

6) 300GB 16mb 7.2K Seagate for programs/data/ and page file

7) NEC 16X DVD +/- R Burner

8) Rosewill DVD Burner

9) Hiper Type-R Modular 580w/630w peak

10) Creative XFI Xtreme Music

And for water cooling I have:

1) Dual 120mm Heatercore (Dual Pass) from Voyeurmods

2) Swiftech MCP655 pump

3) Swiftech Storm Rev2 CPU block

Current tubing is a fairly stiff nylon, but is thick walled and 1/2" ID, with a t-line that has a true 1/2" ID. The t-line goes to the very top of the case and is capped with a fillport. I used worm clamps for all connections, and although I'm embarassed to admit this, the current fluid is about 75% distilled water, 10% bottled water (Natural, not distilled), 10% Water Wetter, and 5% Tetra Anti-algea. The reasons for all of that are a long story. Replacement tubing and fluid coming soon.

Okay, onto the fun: (And thanks if you're still reading!)

First off, no, I'm not a rich kid. I'm 25 years old, have an job, and worked very hard to build this computer. So it's doubly disappointing that my peformance is so bad. I've gone from an AGP setup with an X850XT PE to pci-e with the eVGA mobo combo deal, bought a second 7800GT, wasn't happy, bought another for SLi, was surprised that my fps dropped, used the eVGA stepup to get my current cards, wasn't happy, figured it was the cheap mobo, and just got my DFI this past Friday. I spent Friday night installing Windows, drivers, software (for sound card and stuff like temp monitors) etc. I didn't install any games at first because I wanted to play around with my processor's OC.

My problem is SLi. With Coolbits 2.0 and nHancer, the options are limitless, yet I can't find any setting for any game (currently just BF2 and COD2 are installed) that shows me what I'd expect from SLi.

First off, SLi AA is simply a joke. For me. Even the lowest SLiAA brings my computer to it's knees, rolling along at 12fps. Alternate Frame Rendering 1&2 seem to be the best. Split screen is rediculously useless and in some games, at least with my old mobo setup, like GTA SA, a static line showed up even after the renderer indicator was turned off.

So basically, my BF2 either looks cartoonish or if I can get the graphics finally looking good (usually AF 16X and gamma etc), then my FPS are unplayable.

The aggrivating part is that I've done so much upgrading and replacing. The only parts that have followed system to system are 1) CPU, 2) RAM, and 3) PSU.

Now, I think most of you will attack my psu. However, while it very may well be my psu, three things about that bother me. 1) This psu is on the SLiZone website as being approved and recommended. 2) I did a test with 3DMARK05 runs using each card on the dedicated 6pin and then the combined 6pin (from two molex) and actually got higher scores with the two molex to one 6pin then I did with the dedicated. Also, this psu's combined 12v are rated at 38amps. Here's the link to that test:

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showpost.php?p=793341&postcount=12

And 3) the idea of "try another psu" doesn't help because I've gone that route so far and it's very expensive testing! I don't know of anyone with a better psu and there's no pro shops in town to test at. I DO plan to run an old psu to power my 2 hard drives, 2 dvd drives, and water cooling to see if that changes peformance at all. If two psu's running don't help, then I don't see how it's the psu. (but I don't know a terrible lot about psu's).

I dunno. Maybe I'm crazy thinking I should be able to do 8XSAA 16XAF gamma correct AA and transparant supersampling, at 1600x1200 resolution and get 100fps in any game. But even if that is asking too much, what about 4xAA, 8xAF, no gamma, no supersampling, same res? Why am I running at an average of 60fps and dipping into the thirties in BF2? How come I dip into the 20s in COD2? What kind of card would it really require to play these games spec'd out?

Back when I had one 7800GT, and didn't mess with any of the specialized nvidia settings, I was getting upwards of 80-120fps in BF2. Online.

Also, there's some artifacting. Black flashes and sometimes black lines attack buildings or weapons as if they're ropes that stretch into infinity. My temps on the cards (they're on air) don't usually go above 70c. I had this same problem with my 7800gt's and old sli motherboard. I thought for sure the problem would be gone. This is at stock speeds.

I haven't had a chance to test each card by itself. I've been playing with settings mostly, and benchmarking my cpu. Speaking of which, here are my scores:

3DMARK05
3DMARK06

And while I'm pretty happy with them, the game peformance is what matters more to me. I have plans to put the videocards on water, and if I have to, I'll replace my psu. I'm having fun with the processor so I'm putting off getting my Opteron 165, but that'll happen one day.

Any help or suggestions are HIGHLY appreciated. I hope that I gave you enough information, but if I left something out, I'll be checking this thread often. Or, you can contact me directly on AIM/MSN/or Y! with the username Jofabalive (@aol/hotmail/yahoo.com). Thanks again in advance.

~ Jofaba

 

[bignick]

I think you are pretty CPU bound right now and that's what is killing you. My P4 at 3840mhz with a single 7900GT is CPU limited. Your cpu scores are low in both 3dmarks. I'm not an AMD guru but that's what I'd put my money on. With that setup I'd think anything less than an FX57 on water @3000mhz would be CPU bound. As far as the artifacting I think you might have either an air flow issue or there clocked to high. I personally wouldn't run them over 60 degrees at full load.

 

[Burninate]

I guess it could be PSU, but that PSU should be enough to run all of that. I had this rig in SLI for about 6 months before I figured I didn't need SLI to run 1280x720 rez (the max for my widescreen LCD). My 500 w Antec never skipped a beat with 2 7800GTs and my 3700+ OCed to 2.85 Ghz.

 

[aaronjb]

Check my sig for my specs - while not exactly similar, I do have two eVGA 7900 GT Superclocked cards in SLi. Currently, I have the cards volt modded to 1.55v (versus the stock 1.2v). For the run I link below, I had the core at 730 MHz and the memory at 850 MHz (1700 effective). The CPU is an overclocked X2 4200 (10 x 250 = ~2.5 Ghz).

3DMark06

I should also note that I'm running an Antec NeoHE 500. Power supply can make a big difference, and not just the wattage. For a high-end system, 30A on the 12v rail is recommended (although it sounds like you've covered this ground thoroughly, so I won't beat this horse any longer):

SLIZone

Barring a bad PSU, you didn't mention which drivers you're using. Also, what flavor of Windows are you running? I generally run the latest beta drivers. Make sure to pick the appropriate Application Profile, and make sure to reboot after selecting the 'Enable SLI' option. Basic stuff, I know, but sometimes easily overlooked.

Your CPU is most likely the bottleneck. Even at 2.8 Ghz, your 3DMark06 CPU score is 1095, compared to 1894 for my X2. Your FSB is at 194 MHz - what multiplier are you using? Are you using a memory divider? I've got no-name mismatched memory, and it's running at ~212 MHz right now (to my 250MHz FSB). In my experience, a higher FSB and lower divider to achieve the same CPU speed offers better performance. Your memory can most likely run at a pretty fast clip; why not try to up the FSB and lower the CPU multiplier? You may have to play around with a memory divider, but I'll bet that you'll see an increase in performance.

In summary, I'm pointing my finger at the CPU.

I dunno. Maybe I'm crazy thinking I should be able to do 8XSAA 16XAF gamma correct AA and transparant supersampling, at 1600x1200 resolution and get 100fps in any game. But even if that is asking too much, what about 4xAA, 8xAF, no gamma, no supersampling, same res? Why am I running at an average of 60fps and dipping into the thirties in BF2? How come I dip into the 20s in COD2? What kind of card would it really require to play these games spec'd out?

You are asking too much. At those settings you're becoming CPU-bound. Gamma-correct AA and transparency supersampling are expensive, particularly at 1600x1200. I game at that resolution as well, and I can tell you that I'm CPU-bound in certain games (Oblivion, for example).

Short of upgrading the CPU, here are my suggestions:

1) Overclock those video cards. Even at stock voltage, I was able to hit 650 on the core and over 800 on the memory (with decent cooling).

2) Use the latest drivers, and make sure to choose the correct application profile from within the NVidia control panel.

3) With Coolbits enabled (the 'coolbits' registry key set to '1a'), choose the correct SLI mode. Coolbits offers special 'SLI-Antialiasing' modes; try those out if you already haven't, although my guess is you have.

4) Mentioned above, but play around with your FSB / Multiplier settings. Just make sure to keep your HTT under 1000 MHz; you'll probably have to lower the HTT multiplier if you raise the FSB over 200.

The 7900-series are great cards. Relatively inexpensive when compared to the previous high-end generation, low heat output and generally good overlcockers. However, there are some scenarios where a pair of 512MB 7800 GTX cards will outperform two 7900 GT (and even GTX) cards.

 

[Jofaba]

Great responce, thanks. I was wondering about that too; 3DMARK saying my FSB was under 200mhz. I'm fairly new to overclocking. My last mobo didn't have anywhere near the options that this one does, and I've only had it for a little over 2 days now. As far as the other stuff, I'm running the 6.67 and 84.21 (If I remember correctly. I have the latest recommended for my system) as well as the latest XFI drivers. I do plan on getting a new processor. Going to get an Opteron 165, but wanted to have some fun with this 3200+ first because it's overclocking quite well. I'll look into how to go about getting the FSB to overclock. Thanks again for the responces. I'll keep you updated as to how things turn out =P

EDIT: I consulted this while overclocking because I was having system instability, and followed the suggestion to put LDT to auto. Maybe that's why it's staying around the 200mhz side. I'm kind of confused how the cpu can be overclocked yet the fsb isnt. But that's just because I don't quite understand the mechanics of how everything talks to each other yet.

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showpost.php?p=203167&postcount=3

 

[azu]

the LDT is the multiplier to get the final "FSB"
the standard default is
5x200 = 1ghz FSB This is advertised on all amd motherboards quite well. lol.

Set the LDT to 3.
and then go find out where your cpu clock speed is [in my motherboard its listed as 200] i forget where DFI lists it. but its somewhere in there. You typically overclock by raising that. yes?

and the reported FSB is that value.

the finally cpu clock speed is the "FSB value" that it reports multiplied by the cpu multiplier.

if i remember correctly, a 3200+ venice is indeed 90nm, the standard voltage is 1.35/1.4. For 2.8ghz, are you sure 1.67v is needed? lower it and raise the "FSB value" of 200.

[assuming you did all this correctly]
then. make sure cool and quiet is not enabled.

and the ram speed is cpu/divider.


RAM speed is critical. nothing can kill scores in my experience as much as RAM timings. you definitely want 2-2-2-6 1T at the minimum That will boost up score a bunch.

 

[Jofaba]

That's an error on 3DMARK's end. My friend's says the same thing and he's running an Opteron 146 just under 3ghz and he actually knows how to overclock. I can only assume your score was better because you have a dual core. I definately do need to learn a lot more about overclocking though.

 

[aaronjb]

That's an error on 3DMARK's end. My friend's says the same thing and he's running an Opteron 146 just under 3ghz and he actually knows how to overclock. I can only assume your score was better because you have a dual core. I definately do need to learn a lot more about overclocking though.

This is the first I've heard of 3DMark misreporting FSB values.

 

[stang8118]

This is the first I've heard of 3DMark misreporting FSB values.

3dmark is famous for screwing up the FSB value. Look at some of mine...

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=113272
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=205647
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1901604
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=4736809

 

[aaronjb]

3dmark is famous for screwing up the FSB value. Look at some of mine...

Well damn. I was wondering how someone reached 2.8 Ghz with a 194 Mhz FSB.

 

[Jofaba]

I'm still not sure what the problem in my system is. It's VERY strange that the same kind of artifacting followed me through four videocards, through a series jump (78s to 79s) and a mobo change (evga to dfi). I'm at stock video speeds and temps are under 70 on load.

I'm probably going to get the Opteron 164 this weekend. I'll be very disappointed if that doesn't solve the problem and give me more flexibility. After that, I'll risk one more upgrade; the psu. If that doesnt do it then I give up and will probably sell both 7900gt co superclocks for the next gen ATI. I'd really love to get these 7900s working though. Maybe I should leave all the coolbits and nHancer stuff alone and just max out the ingame graphics and be happy with that.

 

[Jofaba]

As far as ram goes, I tried loosing the timings but that either made getting to windows or even getting to post impossible. Thank god for DFI's storage feature. It's an overclockers best friend =P

The stock timings are 2-3-2-5. They're supposed to be able to handle 1T, but I'd probably have to stick near 200mhz for that to be true. However, it's not my 3DMark's I want fixed. I just cant figure out why games crawl along at 20-40fps with SLi. I'll have to do some experimenting this weekend, testing each card in each game, then usinga second power supply to run my 2 dvd drives, 2 hard drives, and water cooling pump. If dedicating the 580w to the mobo and videocards doesnt show an increase, then I dont see how upgrading the psu will help. Thank you all for chiming in with ideas and suggestions.

 

[Hipcrostino]

Losen the timmings to 3,4,4,8 or so, then overclock. After your happy with your cpu clock, go back a tighten the timmings slowly.

Anyway, at the very least, go and find yourself some overclocking guides. As many as your can, read them all. 95% of what you read will be the same and stuff you prolly know alreadym but its that extra 5% of knoledge you don't have that might help you.

As for artifacting, thats kind of strange. But you even said its followed your through mobos and gpus. The only thing that hasn't changed is the cpu and psu. Try running everything at stock and seeing if you get any artifacting. Im kind of inclide to say its the cpu, but its only speculation

Finally, check the rails on your psu with a Digital Multimeter : http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=403837

that will tell you for sure weather your psu is to blame. Trust the DMM and not what your mobo tells you!!

 

[Jofaba]

Damn. I broke the L shaped piece of plastic that holds the sata interface against the golden fingers. Guess I'll have to put the Opteron on hold until I decide if I can fix this and be comfortable that it'll hold, or if it needs to be replaced. The good news though, is that I got an extra unexpected $200 from work.

 

[Jofaba]

Fixed my drive btw.

Anyway, so I bit the bullet and bought an Opteron 165 off Newegg today. It'll be here by this coming weekend most likely. I'll update this thread after I bench with it.