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3080 held back by my Ryzen 1700?

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stompah

Deep Pain Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2001
Hi guys,

So I made the jump from my 5700XT to an MSI 3080 Gaming Trio. In many ways I am impressed with this card. But, I am also disappointed.

Specs:

3080 Gaming Trio
Ryzen 1700
16Gb of Ripjaws @ 2400Mhz
Gigabyte B450 Aorus Pro WiFi
WD 970 plus M.2
Corsair 850w
Case side open to make sure temps are not a problem


My card says it boosts to 1815Mhz but Afterburner has reported at 1965Mhz.


My problem is I get nasty frame drops in Fortnite. Like screw it go back to the 5700XT kinda of frame drops.

Fortnite settings @ 1080p:

5700XT - Everything on Epic but shadows are off. DX12 on. I don't remember my motion blur setting. I was getting about 180FPS with drops to about 130-140 and highs bumping into the low 200s.

3080 - Tried everything. I get about 120-180 in MAX FPS. Depends on my settings. But I get drops down to the 30s when I snap the mouse or controller to look around quickly.


5700XT max settings = YaY
3080 at medium settings = choppy



What is impressive? My temps are super low. Even when I get the GPU working at 100% my temps usually stay below 70c on my custom fan curve which keeps it quiet. I had similar results when fan speeds were increased.


Back to my question. Is my 1700 really holding the 3080 back? Why can the 5700XT give me a satisfactory gaming experience with the 1700 but the 3080 goes backwards by quite a bit. I did not expect changing over to the 3080 to give me 300FPS at max settings. But I did expect to be at least as good as the 5700Xt until I upgraded CPU/RAM.
 

bigtallanddopey

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Well the 3080 is a high refresh rate 1440p ultra settings card or a 4k gaming card. Way overkill for playing fortnite at 1080p. If you have a 1080p screen then it’s kind of wasted as the 3080 doesn’t scale great at lower resolutions.

Yes the 1700 will be bottlenecking the card, it will be bottenecking the 5700xt as I know my 1600 bottlenecks mine in some game’s, And even loses frames at 1440p in some games.

As for the drops to 30fps, could be a driver issue. I cannot see a reason why it would drop that low even with a cpu bottleneck. Did you use DDU to get rid of the AMD drivers before putting the Nvidia on?




Also as a side note, you really need to Overclock that ram if possible. You will gain a lot of frames, even with the 5700xt going from 2400 to 3200. I gained 12fps in assassins creed odyssey when I bought some better ram that ran at 3200 instead of 2400.


 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ben333

Folding for Team 32!
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
I'm not totally sure, but I think you would see some good improvements by upgrading to 3200 MHz or faster memory. Zen 2 or newer will also show you much better performance.

Have you checked CPU utilization in game? Games which are not using all cores \ threads are going to run worse than games which better max out the CPU.

In any case, yes, it is out of balance. I'd definitely upgrade the CPU to unleash that video card's real potential. I don't know what chipset you're on, board, etc. But I'd say 3200 MHz RAM or faster, and a Zen 2 or newer chip.

As for performance being worse than it was on your old card... I can't explain that, but someone else here probably can.

EDIT: didn't see you did list your MB above. So at-least you don't need to change so many things at once, should you upgrade the CPU \ RAM.
 
OP
stompah

stompah

Deep Pain Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2001
I guess I should rephrase it. Why am I getting such low frame drops? I know my set up is holding back both the 5700XT and the 3080. But why does a GPU swap cause the game to have the drops so low that it impacts game play? I am not asking why my cards only output 170ish frames. I am asking why do I get the frame drops down to 30.

A CPU/RAM/MB upgrade is in the pipeline but that isn't happening for a few months at least.

If a 3070 was available I would have gotten that instead of the 3080. But currently beggars cannot be choosers. I got what fell into my lap.

Yes, I did remove the AMD driver completely. And I just removed and reinstalled the 3080 driver as well.

As I have said in other threads my reasons for the switch to Nvidia was to get away from AMD's drivers. My expectation was a slight increase in performance with a huge increase in stability which I have only experienced the latter.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
If you're choking already drinking from a garden hose, makes sense when swapping to a fire hose, it can choke more...and worse. I highly doubt this is a driver issue. 1st gen ryzen is still a potato compared to zen3 and modern intel.

Boost speed is normal. What you see in gpuz for nv cards is typically the MINIMUM boost. If you look at reviews of your card, you'll see this is where the clocks sit. :)

Stability doesn't have much to do with FPS drops (to me). Stable on NV is no black screens and such...

I'd try overclocking the cpu and raising that ram speed until you get that upgrade to help alleviate the bottleneck.

In the meantime... dont run anything lower than ultra. Consider raising resolution scale in game to put more load on the gpu. Feel free to look at a log that plots cpu and gpu use to see whats happening. Id imagine you're seeing cpu spikes or pegged when the fps drops...
 
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yoadknux

Member
Joined
May 6, 2016
I agree with all the suggestions here, although I still don't understand how it explains this behavior. He doesn't say that he gets less performance than expected - he says he expects less performance than with a weaker card. To me that sounds more on the software side.

Do you have Freesync or G-Sync enabled? What about V-Sync? I know a few games that change the in-game settings when you swap GPUs. For example when I went from 2080s to 2080ti, Overwatch initially worked at something like 80 FPS and worked at lower refresh rate. I DDU'd and re-applied all the settings on the control panel as well as in-game settings and it worked fine. There is also a point about G-Sync that it's always better to limit your max FPS to a few frames (3-5) below the maximum refresh rate of your monitor, because otherwise V-Sync might kick in.

You're actually the first person I hear that had a less smooth experience going from 5700xt to an nvidia card. I always witnessed the opposite cases.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
He's low all around. The lows are the worst of it (right?). To me, this screams bottleneck. Especially playing Fortnite at 1080p (most anything at 1080p with a 3080 is bottlenecked).

The OP needs to turn up the eye candy, potentially even the resolution scale to shift the load more towards the GPU. Look at GPUz and see GPU use (should be pegged at 98-99% optimally) and CPU use (should be relatively low).

I've never heard of vsync kicking in when you have G-sync enabled...but, I'm also pegged at 143 FPS (I keep it off the limit, supposedly it's smoother, though I don't recall why offhand - I don't recall vsync having anything to do with it, but not sure).
 
OP
stompah

stompah

Deep Pain Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2001
If you're choking already drinking from a garden hose, makes sense when swapping to a fire hose, it can choke more...and worse. I highly doubt this is a driver issue. 1st gen ryzen is still a potato compared to zen3 and modern intel.
Ok, keep your mind out of the gutter. If I am choking that means my throat is of a certain size. So, some water is passing and being swallowed. Wouldn't upgrading to a fire hose sill mean I am swallowing the same amount of water?
Boost speed is normal. What you see in gpuz for nv cards is typically the MINIMUM boost. If you look at reviews of your card, you'll see this is where the clocks sit. :)
I mentioned that in case that question came up.

Stability doesn't have much to do with FPS drops (to me). Stable on NV is no black screens and such...
Stability was in reference to crashing with AMD's drivers vs no crashing with Nvidia's driver. Like I said in another thread. When AMD's driver crashes I am effectively getting 0 FPS. Does not make for a happy stompah.

I'd try overclocking the cpu and raising that ram speed until you get that upgrade to help alleviate the bottleneck.
I can probably get to just shy of 4GHz with this CPU is memory serves. I am 99% certain in the past I can get to 3.7 at stock voltage. I only OCed this CPU for fun when I first got it. I will have to experiment all over again. Unless a 5600x falls into my lap.

I am not sure if my MB will support Zen3. It isn't on the list of compatible CPUs but Gigabyte release a driver update on 10/29/2020 saying vaguely "Enhance CPU compatibility". I don't want to experiment since if I update I lose Zen1 compatibility.

The RAM is such a slug that I am looking for an upgrade. No way am I pushing this RAM to 3200+ speeds.




I agree with all the suggestions here, although I still don't understand how it explains this behavior. He doesn't say that he gets less performance than expected - he says he expects less performance than with a weaker card. To me that sounds more on the software side.

Do you have Freesync or G-Sync enabled? What about V-Sync? I know a few games that change the in-game settings when you swap GPUs. For example when I went from 2080s to 2080ti, Overwatch initially worked at something like 80 FPS and worked at lower refresh rate. I DDU'd and re-applied all the settings on the control panel as well as in-game settings and it worked fine. There is also a point about G-Sync that it's always better to limit your max FPS to a few frames (3-5) below the maximum refresh rate of your monitor, because otherwise V-Sync might kick in.

You're actually the first person I hear that had a less smooth experience going from 5700xt to an nvidia card. I always witnessed the opposite cases.
Tried V-Sync off and on. Limited fps from 180 to 60 and every setting in between.

So, I DDU'd AMD drivers. Installed Nvidia driver and experience. I clicked "optimize game settings". Wasted my time adjusting Fortnite settings to no end. DDU'd Nvidia driver but did not click optimize game settings this time. So my constant extreme drop has diminished quite a bit. Now I am at Epic settings without hitting 30fps every time I turn. For the most part I hover around 180 and drop to 110-120 semi-often but rarely dip below 100 with the lowest I saw was 70FPS and a few times I saw 90FPS.

I am solely blaming clicking that "optimize game settings." Don't ask me why, but without clicking that I am running smoother.

So, at this point I would strongly say that my system is back to it's normal CPU/RAM bottleneck. Sad to say that it makes me happy lol.



Forgot to add while playing and spinning around I am using the GPU at about 68-70%. CPU went to an all core boost of 3,301MHz.
 

Ben333

Folding for Team 32!
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
As for the garden hose thing... think of it like this:

Your last GPU was a bath tub. Your new GPU is a swimming pool.

Your 1st gen Ryzen is a > 1" garden hose. Ryzen 3000 would be a proper 2" water line. Ryzen 5000 = fire-hose.

The garden hose will fill your bath tub just fine. If you just got a new in ground pool and it's giant, might want to invite a pump truck over to fill it.

Even if you do OC that chip, the IPC is still much less efficient. You're in a bad spot I've realized because if you get a new MB, you need a new CPU immediately. And, you likely can't put a 3rd gen in your current MB. So much for being on the same socket AMD :(

Here is an easy one though: Get some new, fast RAM. Even if you get 4000 MHz, you can still run it slower (but faster than 2400) till the day you get a new MB & CPU.
 
OP
stompah

stompah

Deep Pain Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2001
As for the garden hose thing... think of it like this:

Your last GPU was a bath tub. Your new GPU is a swimming pool.

Your 1st gen Ryzen is a > 1" garden hose. Ryzen 3000 would be a proper 2" water line. Ryzen 5000 = fire-hose.

The garden hose will fill your bath tub just fine. If you just got a new in ground pool and it's giant, might want to invite a pump truck over to fill it.

Even if you do OC that chip, the IPC is still much less efficient. You're in a bad spot I've realized because if you get a new MB, you need a new CPU immediately. And, you likely can't put a 3rd gen in your current MB. So much for being on the same socket AMD :(

Here is an easy one though: Get some new, fast RAM. Even if you get 4000 MHz, you can still run it slower (but faster than 2400) till the day you get a new MB & CPU.

I understand your analogy about hose size. But I expected constant flow from my hose. But, someone was "uphose" stepping on it. Causing my issues. That someone was Geforce Experience's optimize game settings. Once I resolved that issue I am filling my pool at the expected hose rate.

Somewhere that optimized settings flipped a "switch" somewhere that I didn't see or couldn't find. Reinstalling reset my settings and now I don't have that problem.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
..and this is why I never install GFE. I don't like things taking over and setting things 'optimally' (regardless if I push the button).

Do yourself a favor. Uninstall GFE, now (lol), and set all your games manually to Ultra. Enjoy. :)
 

BugFreak

Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Location
Central FL
Do yourself a favor. Uninstall GFE, now (lol), and set all your games manually to Ultra. Enjoy.
I agree with not letting it set everything for you because it is absolutely terrible at doing so but that feature can be disabled. No need to uninstall. I have yet to find a game the 3080 can't handle on whatever it calls the highest settings so go for broke.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
GFE, to me, is just bloatware. If I want new drivers, I go get them. If I want to change settings, I do it in game. It offers me (personally) nothing and isn't even worth the MB to install. If you're the type of user who likes to be notified 2x /month about new drivers and has the game set things up for you, I suppose it can be useful.
 

BugFreak

Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Location
Central FL
Honestly I think I have most of what it offers and all notifications for it disabled with the exception of the FPS counter. I like the FPS counter in afterburner more but I occasionally get a a crash related to it so I use the nvidia one instead. No crashes since. I also like the clean install option and yes I realize it isn't as good as DDU but I've had no issues with drivers using just the clean install option.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
IIRC, the clean install option in the NV drivers (may be different in GFE?) just clears your settings in the NVCP. It's not like DDU where it cleans registry entries and all other remnants, etc.

For FPS counters, if the in-game doesn't work/isn't there I use FRAPS.

I'm not touching GFE men... :thup: :D
 

RJARRRPCGP

Member
Joined
May 30, 2004
Have you tried setting the low latency setting to "ultra"? (In the Nvidia control panel.) I have the feeling you're getting poor frame times and that could be it!
 
OP
stompah

stompah

Deep Pain Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2001
I did that before I DDU'd and reinstalled the Nvidia driver. That didn't not help.
 

SPL Tech

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Fortnite in general is not very well optimized. I had a lot of trouble running just 1080p on an overclocked 1080Ti that was watercooled. I was getting dips to 30 FPS on max settings in PvE when lots of objects were on the map.
 

RJARRRPCGP

Member
Joined
May 30, 2004
IIRC, the clean install option in the NV drivers (may be different in GFE?) just clears your settings in the NVCP. It's not like DDU where it cleans registry entries and all other remnants, etc.

For FPS counters, if the in-game doesn't work/isn't there I use FRAPS.

I'm not touching GFE men... :thup: :D

I had good experiences with GeForce Experience! Unless you can access the Nvidia encoder via OBS or other software, that's what you have to use to record game plays with the Nvidia encoder.

I wouldn't even try to use FRAPS other than the FPS readings. But, Afterburner seems to get the job done! (Maybe you can select "NVENC" in Afterburner, but dunno right now.)