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5900x / Dark Hero : Need help to OC

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Asryan

Registered
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Hi,

I am about to get a Dark Hero board with a 5900x and coming from years with Intel i'm kinda lost about how I should Oc it. I've checked CTR and it seems like a great tool to start with, no?

I saw a very detailed tutorial for version 2.0 :https://www.igorslab.de/en/clock-tu...en-5000-hybrid-oc-phoenix-mode-and-much-more/

or this : https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pag...GAIRXwbv4BYicMRDrh1PP4RELBExmbtRnqJqHcwmSlf8Q

I was wondering if I can still use it since the latest release is 2.1, is there any differences? Some people on discord told me NOT to use this tool, another one told me it kinda cooked his cpu with high voltage. i'd like your opinion

between PBO, curve, the switch oc on the dark hero, that's a lot of tools i'm not familiar with and i'd really like some expert advices

What type of OC should I use?
Which tools I need ?
How can i properly use the dark hero oc switch?

Thanks again !
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
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What type of OC should I use?
Which tools I need ?
How can i properly use the dark hero oc switch?
1. PBO
2. AMD Ryzen Master
3. Are you manually overclocking or auto overclocking?

1a - Unless you use all cores and threads in your work, it's generally best to use PBO and tweak that.

Never used that application. Ryzen Master and the BIOS work fine. :thup:
 
OP
Asryan

Asryan

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Aug 3, 2017
Well i read somewhere that PBO was sometimes overheating the cpu,
I would prefer to do a manual oc but 'im a real beginner on Ryzen

What about ctr?

I'll check the guide :)
 

EarthDog

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Well, yeah, you raise power limits/voltage/clocks, temperatures go up. Tweak PBO right and it doesn't. ;)
 
OP
Asryan

Asryan

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Aug 3, 2017
Thanks i'll read that but is there a proper bios guide for PBO?
 

Zerileous

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2002
Yeah I don't use PBO, I feel like it adds more heat than is worth the minimal gain in performance. Depending on your chip and your cooling you might see a 25-100MHz improvement to your all core clock speed (unless this has changed significantly with the jump to Zen 3). By all means check it out and see what it does in your system, but the somewhat boring truth is the stock configuration pretty much uses everything the CPU has.

At default, (and with PBO) the most OC favorable cores have been identified from the factory (if you happen to install Ryzen Master, you will see stars by them) and in lightly threaded workloads, these cores are allowed to boost to the single core boost speed. Unfortunately other cores are not capable of the same single core speeds, so any all core overclock is inherently going to hamper your performance in lightly threaded workloads for a very mild increase over stock/PBO performance in heavily threaded workloads.

There are some workarounds that I saw (and may have been refined since I last looked) involving per core OC (which I believe is only available in Ryzen Master) as well as something called process lasso (which I am only familiar with in that I've seen it referenced in this context) to force your lightly threaded program to use the higher clocked core(s). But overall these require running multiple software programs and didn't seem practical to me at the time I was looking about.

EDIT:
Thanks i'll read that but is there a proper bios guide for PBO?

https://rhea.dev/articles/2020-03/AMD-Ryzen-PBO-OC-undervolting

This was written for 3000 series (zen 2). There was some understanding that using the settings listed would provide better performance than maxing them. No idea why, I tried them, they did seem marginally better but did not provide enough value for me. Regardless they are all limits that are substantially over what the CPU can actually do, in effect providing "no limit" to those parameters. Don't get me wrong, there's also a max voltage and I'm not convinced that PBO actually exposes the all of the current limitations on the CPU. It could be a starting point for experimentation, stock vs 300/230/230 vs max/max/max and see which can pull the best cinebench score or something (CB has a lot of run to run variation so some effort must be made to take data from multiple runs at the same setting if you're going to go this way).
 

EarthDog

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Thanks i'll read that but is there a proper bios guide for PBO?
I don't know of one that hands you settings, no (surely they are out there). To me, overclocking is all about trial and error. That guru 3D guide should give you enough tools to get started and testing though. We're here for questions if you choose this route.

Like I said and Z confirmed, it depends on how you use your PC. Again, if you all c/t overclock, you lose the single/dual core boosts and higher clock speeds for those (more common) loads. That said, if your work uses all those cores and threads, then an all c/t overclock is worth it. As Z said, stock on these CPUs are really getting the most out of them already really.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Run it at stock. You'll probably get better all around performance at stock because if you overclock you won't be able to even achieve turbo boost frequencies on all cores. The days of significant gain from overclocking are gone. Modern CPUs are binned very close to the limit from the factory. They are already overclocked right out of the box.
 
OP
Asryan

Asryan

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Aug 3, 2017
Thanks i'm reading this right now :)

I think I have some issues understanding the different OC options, tell me if i'm wrong?


Manual oc, that can be used with PBO on the dark hero with the switch
running stock + PBO
undervolting curve - can it be used with pbo?

Also i've seen this tuto which sounds good but :


Should i leave vcore on auto?
What about core ration.. LLC?
What bout the Dark Hero Oc switch?
Is it better to do the curve or use pbo i suppose it doesn't go together?
I don't really get what goes together or not.. I'd really appreciate some help from experienced user on this platform..
 

EarthDog

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Location
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1. Manual overclock can be used with PBO, yes. That's what was said above... you can adjust PBO settings.
2. That's just PBO, yes.
3. Absolutely. I think someone suggested as much above already..

4. What does the guide say? If it doesn't say to adjust, just use the power limits, then No. PBO is simply adjusting power limits.
5. See #4
5a. LLC is used if you see vdroop (same concept as on Intel).
6. What about it? It's a profile switch.
7. See #3

At some point, you're going to have to get dirty and try things according to a guide you choose. :)
 
OP
Asryan

Asryan

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Aug 3, 2017
4. The guide doest not speak of it so i suppose he leaves it on auto.


I will try to do the curve + PBO with profile switch then but for PBO values it's not really clear for me yet what i should put or how i could know the right ones for PBO, what are the default limits for the 5900x for instance ?


I suppose the best of the best option for temps and perf is curve + pbo right?
 

freeagent

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Sep 15, 2004
Location
Winnipeg!
Can your cooler take the load of your CPU @ stock? Have you tried to find your FIT voltage yet? You wont need it for PBO but you will find out in a hurry if you can cool it or not. At that point is when I would start exploring clocks..
 
OP
Asryan

Asryan

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Aug 3, 2017
Here are my tests so far :


1.2 manual, 46 all cores
Bios settings : View attachment manual 1.2 46_setting.txt
CR20 screen with temps : 4.6 all core 1.2 .png

1.3 voltage, curve optimiser
Bios settings :View attachment curve zithout switch_setting.txt
CR20 screen with temps : curve no switch.png

1.3 voltage, curve optimiser + switch dark hero
Bios settings : curve no switch.png
CR20 screen with temps : View attachment curve dynamic oc_setting.txt curve + switch .png

Best results are curve optimizer + switch but despite the 1.3v per CCX, seems the voltage are a bit high not (max 1.5v) i don't understand why

That leads me to some questions.

When using OC per CCX :

- Do you need to put a voltage in core voltage override or leave it auto?
- Do you need to input a core ration or the CCX will override?
- how can i know the values for EDC /TDC etc...?


Thanks again for your advices !
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Please host the images here at the site. You need to be in 'go advanced' to do so. These are on your personal drive and will disappear. This means nobody can see your settings etc and won't help anyone later.

Anyway, you're testing all cores and threads with cinebench... do you do work with all cores and threads? What about single thread performance (which most apps aren't using all c/t). I think you're curve plus optimizer takes care of that. But you need to test and see where each is boosting to. ;)
 

Johan45

Benching Team Leader Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
I've done some testing with the CTR tool and it does have some uses. Running through the diagnostics and tuning does take some time and the results are semi-stable. It OC's by CCX, my higher P2 results were 4525/4575 @ 1.25V for the 5950X. This would pass AIDA stability and P95 blend tests but fell down hard and fast when testing with P95 small FFT. I do believe these results would be "game" stable though. After more testing, I upped the voltage to just over 1.35V which did stabilize the speed. I set it as the P1 all-core overclock for heavy loads. Then setting the "hybrid" OC option I did like the results. It will keep the higher single-core boost speeds but all core won't dip below the 4550 MHz setting while under load. In the end it's the best of both worlds.
Bone stock run.
stock 10237  642.JPG

Hybid OC profile

CTR hybrid profile 2 11727  635.JPG




I also tested the diagnostics with 3600 CL16 and 3200 CL14 which gave two different results for the same CPU. The voltage was quite marginal but my "Silver" CPU was now a "Golden" CPU when using the slower RAM assuming this is because of the IMC/IF requirements at the higher RAM speed.
 
OP
Asryan

Asryan

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Aug 3, 2017
Interesting I wasn't sure about xtr.

What are your idle and gaming temps?
 

Johan45

Benching Team Leader Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Interesting I wasn't sure about xtr.

What are your idle and gaming temps?

This is the CTR tool, XFR is Xtended Frequency Range another marketing tool from AMD

Using the OC method I described above, app 20°C ambient, 30°C idle, and 68°C running CB R20. I have no idea what it is during gaming but likely not much different. Keep in mind this is an open test bench and I'm using an EK Predator 360 for cooling.