8600k + z390 Aorus Pro overclocking assistance

[Fattyfatchops]

Hello all you people,

I have read a fair amount of threads here regarding overclocking the ol 8600k and think I have the basics under control.

I recently upgraded from a Haswell 4670k that was, IMHO, a beauty of a chip, could push that thing to 4.3 with no adjustment to voltage, and up to 4.7 with a 1.2-1.25 to vcore.
Only ever touched the multiplier and cpu vcore - thats it.
I did achieve a 4.8 but my cooler at the time wasnt great an temps got a little too warm for my liking, high 70s to low 80s, and decide not to push any further and dropped back to 4.5 for daily use.

Anywhoser,
Fast forward to last week an silly me assumed the new 8600k system I put together would overclock in the same way (excluding silicon lottery results of course) an proceeded to dial in the same settings....
this was a bad decision which failed to boot to windows, luckily the Mobos dual bios kicked in an all was well again, well sort of - more on that later.

So I came here an decided to read up a fair bit as I clearly knew nothing of this new chip an platform.
After a bit of trial and error I think I may have lost the silicon lottery unless theres some settings im not paying attention to, or paying too much attention to perhaps?

I can only get a 4.4 at stock voltages, with a 4.5 failing a firestrike run and needing 1.22 vcore, which seems like such a low CPU ratio to be needing any additional vcore.
Cooling the cpu shouldn't be an issue as from memory the 4.5 @ 1.22 was maxing out at 52 degrees or so during XTU and Firestrike.
I didn't want to do small increments to vcore and then multiplier (as everyone here suggests) UNTIL i see if I'm missing something basic that will cause issues...

Things I am doing that may need correcting here / questions are...

1) In the BIOS it states that the Uncore needs to be equal or greater than the CPU core when overclocking, of which I am doing but that may be incorrect info from gigabyte?
2) I havent started to play around with any of the load line calibrations as of yet either, but theres 2 - CPU internal AC/DC loadline and CPU vcore Loadline Calibration, do I need to fiddle with both or just the cpu vcore?
3) When I set the vcore to 1.2, I notice in HWmonitor the vcore is maxing @ 1.188, is this vdroop and adjusting LLC will rectify this? is this normal or is this board not as competent at voltages?
4) The PSU default cables had inline capacitors, are the custom sleeved ones Im using (cablemod) hindering my oveclock attempts and potentially causing the issue in point 3?
5) What other settings should I be looking at to see how far I can push this chip?
6) What is with gigabytes dual bios - when the first boot loop happened I lost all settings - assumed the backup chip overwrote the primary as per their own info, but just had another boot loop (tried touching memory) and its come back with all the saved settings from the first pre-bootloop config.

Sorry for all the questions, if its too much confusion Im happy to work with 1 at a time, or what ever works in best with you good people.

In case its not in my sig, (preview didn't show it) the relevant system info is as follows:
i5 8600k
gigabyte z390 Aorus pro wifi
32g (2x16) g skill trident z 3000mhz cl15
EVGA supernova g2 750w (custom sleeved)
Samsung 860 pro 128g boot drive
ddc pumpres feeding into 1 x 120 + 1 x 240 slim rad through to an EK evo supremacy block.
msi gtx 1070 gaming x


Appreciate everyones time for reading.

 

[Witchdoctor]

Flash to latest and greatest, Gigabyte's BIOS's are a little quirky, but manageable

Set Uncore two to three hundred Mhz below core speed (when done you can work on bring it back up)
sett LLC to turbo
that will solve point 3

if you think the cables are bad rep[lace them

Simply two BOIS chips, you can keep your 24/7 on one and bench clocks on another

 

[Fattyfatchops]

sett LLC to turbo
that will solve point 3

OK So it is Vdroop then? Also, as per point 2 - There are 2 settings that appear to be for LLC - CPU internal AC/DC loadline and CPU vcore Loadline Calibration, both have similar settings to choose - so which is it or is it both?

if you think the cables are bad rep[lace them

I dont think the cables are bad, just wondering as they don't have the inline capacitors like the stock ones, does it impact voltages in any noticeable way?

Simply two BOIS chips, you can keep your 24/7 on one and bench clocks on another

Good in theory, however my board doesn't have a BIOS switch, so I have no choice which it selects, I'd like to know how and when it chooses as its not behaving like Gigabytes manuals dictate.


Appreciate the info Witchdoctor

 

[trents]

You should be able to save multiple overclock profiles in the everyday bios. The dual bios technology is not designed to store multiple overclock profiles but to provide a backup in case the everyday bios gets corrupted.

CPU vcore LLC is likely what Witchy was referring to.

 

[Fattyfatchops]

You should be able to save multiple overclock profiles in the everyday bios. The dual bios technology is not designed to store multiple overclock profiles but to provide a backup in case the everyday bios gets corrupted.

See thats what the gigabyte info states, but mine crashed and booted to a blank bios (with no settings saved) which I assumed meant the other over wrote the primary, but then after the next crash it loaded with all the original settings saved (from before the original crash)
Im just seeing if that's normal "weird behavior" of the dual bios so I know what Im working with.

CPU vcore LLC is likely what Witchy was referring to.

Got it, so the other one does nothing or just not needed for normal OCing?

 

[Witchdoctor]

I have the z390 master that has a switch, my bad I assumed they all had a switch for the second BIOS

They are good over at Gigabyte, give them a call, I would have to think it would only switch on corruption ?

Just does not make seance you can't control that ?

Yes CPU vcore Loadline Calibration set to turbo will flatten out your voltage

If not you will need to compensate for the vdroop

 

[Fattyfatchops]

I have the z390 master that has a switch, my bad I assumed they all had a switch for the second BIOS

They are good over at Gigabyte, give them a call, I would have to think it would only switch on corruption ?

Just does not make seance you can't control that ?

I agree, but the only thing I would have used the z390 Master for over the Pro is the BIOS switch and the dr debug, and as great as they are, not worth the extra $150 I would have needed to spend, well for my use anyway.

Good idea, I may drop Gigabyte a line just to see if they can explain a little more on whats gone on.

Yes CPU vcore Loadline Calibration set to turbo will flatten out your voltage

Alrighty, I'll be fiddling with that tomorrow after work an report back with some results

 

[Witchdoctor]

Yes they are expensive, luckily I got mine on the cheap as it was a review sample.

If you haven't already flash it to the latest and greatest

good luck

 

[trents]

Yes, if there is no hardware switch I think it automatically reverts to the original factory bios upon corruption of the bios being used every day. But check with the manufacturer.

 

[wingman99]

On Gigabyte corrupted BIOS it switches primary to backup BIOS and you loose all your settings from primary BIOS.

 

[Fattyfatchops]

On Gigabyte corrupted BIOS it switches primary to backup BIOS and you loose all your settings from primary BIOS.

Yeah see this is what Gigabyte states, but after what appeared to be a POST failure, it posted with stock settings and no saves - so this is where I assumed the backup BIOS wiped the Primary to factory settings.
However, after the next POST failure, it went back to the original Primary BIOS, complete with all my old saves and settings.

So its like it didn't wipe or copy over anything at all, it just switched which BIOS chip was used. Its almost like this = IF the current BIOS selection fails THEN swap to other OTHERWISE boot using current selection.
Or is "Corruption" the key point Im missing = so won't wipe unless its fully corrupted ?

 

[Fattyfatchops]

So Im sure everyone here's aware of the fact but just in case,
Witchdoctor is a bloody legend....

...Assisting with some DMs that helped me immensely in my quest for a 5ghz stable clock on the ol 8600k.
Attached an image of HWmonitor + realtemp after Prime (v26.6) was running for 20 mins,
(ignore the base clock on realtemp, it was not @ 104mhz as much as I'd like a 5.2g stable, not sure why it read incorrectly)
just incase Im reading anything wrong and theres something that should be cause for concern.

If not, then a big thanks to everyone that took the time to read and contribute

 

[wingman99]

I have found failed post it only switches to backup then when you have another problem it switches back to primary. Have you tried the latest BIOS upgrade? I find it does not switch BIOS with failed post.

 

[Fattyfatchops]

I have found failed post it only switches to backup then when you have another problem it switches back to primary

THIS!!! This is what is happening with mine, so at least I know its normal and not an issue.

I recently updated from v F6 to F9A, but that was after I had the weird BIOS switch issues as mentioned above.

 

[wingman99]

I recently updated from v F6 to F9A, but that was after I had the weird BIOS switch issues as mentioned above.

Could you test to see if the BIOS switches to backup after F9A BIOS update?

 

[Fattyfatchops]

Could you test to see if the BIOS switches to backup after F9A BIOS update?

I could, maybe,

Sorry if Im being a lil slow here, how do I know which BIOS its on?
and apart from causing a POST failure, is there a way I can check if it does?

When I updated the BIOS I lost all settings and saves.

 

[Witchdoctor]

So Im sure everyone here's aware of the fact but just in case,
Witchdoctor is a bloody legend....

...Assisting with some DMs that helped me immensely in my quest for a 5ghz stable clock on the ol 8600k.
Attached an image of HWmonitor + realtemp after Prime (v26.6) was running for 20 mins,
(ignore the base clock on realtemp, it was not @ 104mhz as much as I'd like a 5.2g stable, not sure why it read incorrectly)
just incase Im reading anything wrong and theres something that should be cause for concern.

If not, then a big thanks to everyone that took the time to read and contribute

View attachment 204185

Congrats !!!

Nice job man, looks spot on

 

[wingman99]

I could, maybe,

Sorry if Im being a lil slow here, how do I know which BIOS its on?
and apart from causing a POST failure, is there a way I can check if it does?

When I updated the BIOS I lost all settings and saves.

If you have a failed post what I find before my last update was the old BIOS version and I get all my settings back when it switches BIOS to backup. I'm thinking of getting a new Gigabyte Z390 and wondering if they changed when the BIOS switches like my Z370 with the BIOS update.

 

[EarthDog]

When I updated the BIOS I lost all settings and saves.

This is normal, FYI.

 

[wingman99]

This is normal, FYI.

Were both trying to figure out when and why the Gigabyte dual BIOS switches from primary to backup and backup to primary. It was a hot steaming mess before the last update, I'm just wondering if his latest update changed things for the Z390 since my Z370 was doing the same behavior when overclocking with a failed POST before the latest update.