9800x3D build planning

[Dolk]

We are getting close to launch time. So lets talk builds.

First off is memory, I haven't kept up with DDR5 memory for consumer land. I've heard that the 9000 series can get up to 8000MTs but is it worth it? Has anyone done any big studies on the 870 boards yet?

 

[EarthDog]

can get up to 8000MTs but is it worth it?

I'd say no. Unless you're benchmarking at Hwbot, it's rarely worth more than a couple of percent moving away from the sweetspot (up to 6400), especially when you consider cost. After ~6400, it drops ratios/gears, and you need to be up over 8k for additional benefits (and that's where the platform craps out). I'd get the lowest CL DDR5-6400 you can find. That will be my plan....I'll do the same thing once the 9800X3D comes out.

 

[Dolk]

Ok that sounds about right. I remember some of y'all talking about how there is still a clock ratio for the higher speeds, and only CUDIMMs can break through that barrier appropriately.

Anyone know which manufactures to go with? Samsung, or Micron?

 

[EarthDog]

I remember some of y'all talking about how there is still a clock ratio for the higher speeds, and only CUDIMMs can break through that barrier appropriately.

The CUDIMMs have a clock driver on the sticks. AFAIK, that doesn't stop the motherboard from using the different gearing/ratio.

Anyone know which manufactures to go with? Samsung, or Micron?

If you're not overclocking or tweaking, it doesn't really matter. I'd also imagine the difference in tweaking at those speeds, there isn't a significant difference. That said, I'll let @Woomack answer that, LOL.

 

[Dolk]

ED.... come on man... you're talking to the guy that is optimizing M.2 topologies to gain a bit more performance.

I'll start a TIM thread soon

 

[infinitevalence]

1:1 low timings still seems to be where AMD shines, but I will wait for testing to be sure. My 5900x is starting to feel long in the tooth and I would like to have more than 32gb of RAM on my next build.

 

[EarthDog]

I'll start a TIM thread soon

Please dont. Just read this and pick one - https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-thermal-paste

Keep your head out of the minutia... you're undervolt overclocking that processor in all likelihood anyway, lol.

 

[Dolk]

It was a small threat to start the thread

I want that fancy VRM controls ASUS has. So much fun to optimize the voltage ripple to boost PBO just a bit more

@infinitevalence
So nothing's changed since the 5000s. Makes sense. I'll probably look for kits between 6000 to 6400 at low CS.

 

[Woomack]

Ok that sounds about right. I remember some of y'all talking about how there is still a clock ratio for the higher speeds, and only CUDIMMs can break through that barrier appropriately.

Anyone know which manufactures to go with? Samsung, or Micron?

Hynix is the best for DDR5. Everything low latency, high capacity or high frequency is Hynix. Samsung does not exist in the current retail DDR5 offer. Micron is fine if you don't need much more than acceptable performance and stability, but with prices similar to Hynix, it's not the best option.
If I'm right, Micron is the only brand with 64GB modules (so you can make 256GB on a desktop mobo), but good luck finding them in stores, and AMD will stuck at ~4000-5200MT/s with them.

I don't know if there will be any changes in the 9000X3D, but I assume that not and the best option will still be 6400 1:1 at low timings. There are plenty 6400 CL30/32 kits on the market. I'm using Kingston Renegade 2x48GB 6400 CL32 kit with XMP for all X870/X870E reviews and except for Biostar, it works perfectly on everything. Most leading mobo brands support XMP and EXPO kits.

 

[Dolk]

Excellent sounds like a plan


Now back to complaining about motherboard designs.

 

[Dolk]

Its announced

https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/9000-series/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d.html

I think in the end I'll go with the Crosshair.

I think the extra PCIe power, the miniSlimLine, and the their DigiVRM+ is all the things I could use. I might not use the other CPU NVMe slots, but at least I'll have three off the chipset thanks to the slimline connection. Apparently thats a dedicated x4 and not shared.

 

[EarthDog]

$480... not bad... I'm looking for the 9900X3D.....even if I don't need more cores and threads... 8/16 seems like the bottom end for enthusiasts these days and a significant drop from a 13900K (not that I can utilze the cores/threads there).

Funny, I was questioning the implementation of the SlimSAS in the review (along with others) on this class board, LOL. Of course you'd want it!!

You're correct, the SlimSAS (what is miniSlimLine?) does have its own PCIe 4.0 x4 off the chipset (supports NVMe and SATA-based devices).

 

[freeagent]

I have my sons 5600X boosting to 4800 across all cores/threads. Its not too bad for puttering around. But yeah, even my 58X3D is a bit soft in day to day stuff. Not as snappy as my 5900X.

 

[Dolk]

I'm not sure why Asus has to keep it private... but ok. I meant SlimSAS. SlimLine is an enterprise term. Its now called XIO.

I've been running a 5800x3D since it launched. I love it. It still holds strong for everything I play. I'm only upgrading the CPU because I want to overclock the chip more

 

[EarthDog]

Sorry, I edited my post and removed those details. I was reading off Z890. The X870E didn't have the chipset diagram in it (nor does the manual... grrr... MSI, ASRock, and Giga are usually good at that).

 

[Dolk]

Motherboard picked: Crosshair x870e
Now on to cooling, and RAM.

I'm going to do the direct-die cooling. Anyone have any personal experience here? Seems like a pretty straight forward process with the Thermal Grizzly tools and WB.

I'm going to use the Kyro-sheets to lower the amount of times I should have to open this system up. I'm hoping to tune this guy in and then have it sit for a long time.

Cooling List so far:

Delid-Die-Mate | Ryzen 7000 | S-TG-DDM-R7000

The Ryzen 7000 Delid-Die-Mate is a tool for removing the heatspreaders ("delidding") on AMD Ryzen 7000/8X00G/9000 processors. By removing the heatspreader, the CPUs can be cooled via "Direct-Die", for example. With the so-called "Direct Die" method, the…

www.thermal-grizzly.com

Thermal Grizzly KryoSheet Thermal Pads

KryoSheet premium graphene thermal pads for outstanding and constant thermal conductivity thanks to a molecular structure stacked in the Z-direction.

www.thermal-grizzly.com

Thermal Grizzly AM5 Mycro Direct-Die CPU Water Cooler

The AM5 Mycro Direct-Die is a Water Cooler for cooling Ryzen CPUs without the processor's heatspreader.

www.thermal-grizzly.com

Thermal Grizzly AMD AM5 Short Backplate

The AMD AM5 M 4 Short Backplate enables the installation of CPU coolers with custom retention kits on AM5 motherboards.

www.thermal-grizzly.com

 

[Woomack]

The only problem with direct die installation is that you have literally only a few cooling options. Noctua offers air cooling with their direct die kit, and there is a TG direct die block. Everything else is more like good luck, and maybe it will work.
X3D CPUs don't need water cooling, and direct die installation is a waste of money. You can still do that "for fun," but don't expect spectacular results compared to regular AIO cooling.

 

[Dolk]

I am very curious of what other's will be posting with the 9800x3Ds. Maybe the direct die isn't needed.

Also, I don't do wimpy AIOs: https://www.overclockers.com/forums/threads/post-pictures-of-your-leet-system.592619/post-8210763

A year+ later and my 5800x3D reaches 81C max with prime95. The GPU stays under 65C on load. My bet is that my cooling solution can at least take down the top end heat by a good amount. How much extra MHz... idk.

I'm curious about how much deliding shortens the life of the CPU, or potentially could increase it as it keeps the temps in better ranges.

 

[Woomack]

I am very curious of what other's will be posting with the 9800x3Ds. Maybe the direct die isn't needed.

Also, I don't do wimpy AIOs: https://www.overclockers.com/forums/threads/post-pictures-of-your-leet-system.592619/post-8210763

I expect most others will post stuff like "help me OC my new 9800X3D". Times when you could find proper info on the web or OC guides have already passed. Now, all are only searching for help, and mostly clueless people answer (those who think they are good, but repeat things they saw on the web).

Don't mean me wrong, but for that 9800X3D setup, a "wimpy AIO" is as good as your custom loop. It doesn't matter how many rads you use when the CPU has 120W. Maybe if you add 450W GPU then it will change.

As much as I dislike AIOs, I just got Arctic Freezer III 420 for the second test rig (mainly because it cost me ~$85 inc 23% tax). I could make a custom loop, but it would cost a lot and take up more space, and I don't remember when I saw a difference between custom and AIO cooling when only the CPU is cooled.
I'm thinking of a custom loop in my daily/ITX PC. For now, I moved everything into the Deepcool CH170 case and checked if the rad/pump fits. I noticed that Bykski released a block for my RTX4070 Super DUAL EVO card, so I ordered it, and it should arrive in 2 weeks. Then we will see.

 

[EarthDog]

My 9900x3d will just be under an aio. Like woomack said, there's little point for more for a daily driver.