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So something is wrong with the mackeral numbers.
I am assuming you're presuming that the die itself would act as some sort of heat spreader, conducting heat uniformly into the IHS. Silicon is actually a poor thermal conductor so this is problematic (hence why Intel is now shaving down their CPU dies, in order to have less thickness of silicon before the heat gets to the STIM and IHS). Also the area rather than volume of silicon is used in the formula, so it doesn't account for thicker vs thinner dies. Finally this all becomes most problematic with a Zen2 CPU where there is literally air insulation between the core and IO dies.If we were talking about the Thermodynamic concept of Heat Transfer, we only consider the heat generation portions. But since we are dealing with Heat Removal, we are constrained to the size of the actual contact block, which is, for all intents and purposes, the size of the die itself.
I see that you're controlling for die size, which can be a good thing, and this can either prove or disprove our gut feelings that these smaller die sizes are producing less heat energy but running higher temperatures because there is less surface area to remove the heat.
I don't think this formula gets us apples to apples comparisons of different cooling solutions that are tested under different circumstances. Yes ambient temp and die size are controlled, but as others have mentioned, IHS and TIM are not controlled. So yes we can look at the system as a whole, as you say, but cannot compare x-cooler to y-cooler just by crunching some numbers for our dissimilar systems.
So you want me to run a load of my choice ... Which of these readings would you like me to use in your formula?
Can I also use the formula for my GPU and see if the rating is similar? It should be since it's the same loop.
I don't feel like Blaylock's question was conclusively answered. Rather there was, with what appeared to me to be a bit of a condescending tone, a statement that I interpreted as, "when you get it, you'll know the answer." So I will ask, does my water cooling loop need to be at an equilibrium temperature or can it be near ambient? This is a yes or no question for the purposes of participating in your other thread only. This is Not a theoretical question in the context of my post.
Finally is there a way to combine both my GPU and CPU into one score? Otherwise each score may suffer a slight penalty of the idle heat from the other component, as they share a cooling loop.
And maybe not so surprising at 67C under a 95W load the score of 10,157 indicates it is working harder than 73C under a 97W load with a score of 9,196.
I don't know if its me but this does not compute, how can it be working harder at a lower temp/load?
Nope. They are both working the same... up to their potential. One has more capacity/cooling capability than the other, but, they aren't working harder. One solution is conducting more heat from the baseplate out, but they work the same no matter what.....the cooling properties are the cooling properties. Now, if you said more efficient or has more cooling capacity, sure. But so long as fans stay the same speed or pumps, the cooling solution works the same regardless of load.In other words, the cooling solution is lowering the temperature more, therefore it is working harder.
The cooling loop doesn't work any 'harder' at a given temperature.
No one suggested that.If a cooling solution can remove 200W of heat and it ALWAYS removes this much heat, what happens when the CPU is generating 100W of heat? Are you saying it still removes 200W of heat?
No one is disputing this.A cooling solution has a MAXIMUM capacity
1. You may have missed that I said all other things remaining the same. This includes fan speeds (also pump speeds/flow rates when talking water as well.)This cannot possibly be true.
1. You may have missed that I said all other things remaining the same.
2. The cooler is removing the heat load that it is given. That doesn't mean it is working any harder or less. If the cooler/mater/system is able to move 385 w/k it does so regardless if there is 100W load or 200W load. The difference is in the output... in this case temperature.
If I set an air cooler's fan at 700RPM static, it does the same 'work' at idle as it does when fully loaded.
The rate of heat removal doesn't change because the properties of the cooling system remain the same.
What does change is the heat load and with it going up, the temperature goes up. Eventually, the device gets saturated/equilibrium...
I think I have a problem with the term 'works harder'. Because, to me, a cooler isn't doing work, per say. For all intents and purposes, it's a passive system outside of fans/pumps. It's working the same. There is more heat transfer, but that is a product of the heat source, not any 'work' the cold plate/cooling system has to do.
Wouldn't it be true for any given temperature? Typically you see temperatures follow 1:1 with ambient. In that if my system yields 90C at 150W with 22C ambient, I'll hit 100c with 32 ambient. Same amount of heat transfer but different ambient temps yield different end temps. But is the cooler doing anything different at all?Agreed. But when "The cooling loop doesn't work any 'harder' at a given temperature" was said, this left itself open to the implication that this was true for "any given temperature."
I inferred you meant DIFFERENT temperatures.
"The cooling loop doesn't work any harder at a fixed, constant temperature" is the unambiguous statement I agree with.
You said this to blaylock.. but the first post says this is a rating. The higher the value (if you dont want to call it a score) the better it performs, right? What is the intended use of the contrived end value? We've heard rating, snapshot, etc and higher is better beat removal, but... I'm still left looking for more than an arbitrary value in the end.You are still thinking about the "High Score" mentality, and this is not the correct intended use of the formula.
Wouldn't it be true for any given temperature? Typically you see temperatures follow 1:1 with ambient. In that if my system yields 90C at 150W with 22C ambient, I'll hit 100c with 32 ambient. Same amount of heat transfer but different ambient temps yield different end temps. But is the cooler doing anything different at all?
Does this extrapolate to sub ambient cooling methods or would the equation have to change?
22C room temp, -150C cpu temp @ 150W, 149mm die area
22c room temp, -40C cpu temp @ 150W, 149mm die area
22c room temp, 90C cpu temp @ 150W, 149mm die area
Edit:You said this to blaylock.. but the first post says this is a rating. The higher the value (if you dont want to call it a score) the better it performs, right? What is the intended use of the contrived end value? We've heard rating, snapshot, etc and higher is better beat removal, but... I'm still left looking for more than an arbitrary value in the end.
Not that it matters much, but just to clarify, some people including the author have been calling this formula an equation a few times. This is not an equation.