- Joined
- Jun 9, 2001
- Location
- Montreal, Quebec, Canada
You're into pain aren't you Hoot?
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Accurate Core Temps
- Thread starter jbd
- Start date
- Joined
- May 30, 2001
- Location
- My Habitat in Oklahoma
I was going to look for a couple of small pieces of metal(but it's dark outside and got distracted) to heat and press heatshrink between them with pliers or a clamp. Like you said, sure don't want to get it too hot!
I was wondering if you had cut back the outer heatshrink tubing on the one that you broke to see what under it. Are you saying there's another piece of heatshrink under the outer one?
I looked at the radio shack online catalog and they do have some thermistors that look like they would work if they're not thick. Will go to local Shack first chance I get.
I mike'd over 0.05" across the heatshrink. I'll bet you're right about this causing some smoked cores.
I was wondering if you had cut back the outer heatshrink tubing on the one that you broke to see what under it. Are you saying there's another piece of heatshrink under the outer one?
I looked at the radio shack online catalog and they do have some thermistors that look like they would work if they're not thick. Will go to local Shack first chance I get.
I mike'd over 0.05" across the heatshrink. I'll bet you're right about this causing some smoked cores.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2001
- Location
- Twin Cities
If you can wait a few days, I will have one of those Enermax sensors and will measure the resistance. That way, you will know which thermistor to buy. The smallest generic thermistor I could find in the different component catalogs is still 1.5mm thick. Still too much.
Hoot
Hoot
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2001
- Location
- Twin Cities
Yes, the two strip conductors eventually transition to bare wire and are soldered to the zip cord. The bare areas have small pieces of heatshrink over them. Then, a second larger piece is shrunk over the smaller two. This is probably for mechanical stability. It can be removed.
Hoot
Hi - I followed your guide (heres my photos http://www.mj3zero.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/thermo/page_01.htm )
What I found was that at 1533 ,1.96 volts my Tbird with MC462/Delta is maxing at 60.4 'c doing a long stint of BurnK6.
This is with an ambient temp of 26'c.
I tried it at 1333 , 1.85 (same settings as the overclockers MC462 review) and it maxes at 50'c doing RC5.
So - is my MC462 knackered ?
How do overclockers test - is it in a closed case or an open system ?
My result so far show that the Abit Kt7a socket thermistor is between 7 to 10 'c below real temps.
any suggestions ?
mj
What I found was that at 1533 ,1.96 volts my Tbird with MC462/Delta is maxing at 60.4 'c doing a long stint of BurnK6.
This is with an ambient temp of 26'c.
I tried it at 1333 , 1.85 (same settings as the overclockers MC462 review) and it maxes at 50'c doing RC5.
So - is my MC462 knackered ?
How do overclockers test - is it in a closed case or an open system ?
My result so far show that the Abit Kt7a socket thermistor is between 7 to 10 'c below real temps.
any suggestions ?
mj
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2001
- Location
- Twin Cities
First off, I want to compliment the process you used to arrive at the final solution. Good photojournalism.
Something is definitely amiss with your MC-462A though. With an ambient of ~25C, the resultant CPU temp is way out of whack. Do you absolutely have to use that shim? General wisdom has it that they cause a slightly higher temperature. If it interferes with a tigh mate between the MC-462 base and the core, that would explain the extreme temperature. You do not have to worry about the MC-462 damaging your CPU. Do try again without the copper shim. You can increase the accuracy of the KT7A in-socket thermistor substantially by bending it slightly upward so that when the CPU is in the socket, the head of the thermistor rests firmly up against the bottom of the CPU. Before you lock the zif socket the CPU should ride slightly higher because it rests upon the lifted thermistor head. You push the CPU down into the socket and then lock the zif lever. I put a small dib of AS on the in-socket thermistor head, right where it contacts the bottom of the CPU, for even better thermal conductivity. Using that approach, the in-socket thermistor reads within .5C of the on-die thermistor once the temp has stabilized. During transition, either up or down, the in-socket thermistor is a few degrees behind the on-die thermistor, due to thermal propagation delay through the CPU ceramic. Lastly, make sure the Delta fan is blowing down into the HS, not sucking out. It makes a difference on the MC-462.
As for testing open vs closed case. When I am characterizing the performance of an HSF, I test with the case open, since I am not interested in characterizing the cases performance. When I am characterizing the entire systems cooling, I run case closed because that is how it will be used.
Hoot
Something is definitely amiss with your MC-462A though. With an ambient of ~25C, the resultant CPU temp is way out of whack. Do you absolutely have to use that shim? General wisdom has it that they cause a slightly higher temperature. If it interferes with a tigh mate between the MC-462 base and the core, that would explain the extreme temperature. You do not have to worry about the MC-462 damaging your CPU. Do try again without the copper shim. You can increase the accuracy of the KT7A in-socket thermistor substantially by bending it slightly upward so that when the CPU is in the socket, the head of the thermistor rests firmly up against the bottom of the CPU. Before you lock the zif socket the CPU should ride slightly higher because it rests upon the lifted thermistor head. You push the CPU down into the socket and then lock the zif lever. I put a small dib of AS on the in-socket thermistor head, right where it contacts the bottom of the CPU, for even better thermal conductivity. Using that approach, the in-socket thermistor reads within .5C of the on-die thermistor once the temp has stabilized. During transition, either up or down, the in-socket thermistor is a few degrees behind the on-die thermistor, due to thermal propagation delay through the CPU ceramic. Lastly, make sure the Delta fan is blowing down into the HS, not sucking out. It makes a difference on the MC-462.
As for testing open vs closed case. When I am characterizing the performance of an HSF, I test with the case open, since I am not interested in characterizing the cases performance. When I am characterizing the entire systems cooling, I run case closed because that is how it will be used.
Hoot
Hi again,
my rig is now running wihtout the shim (forgot to mention that) and the temps are exactly the same. I did the socket thermistor bend / AS trick too.
I definitely think there is something amiss with the MC462 -
I have tried a Thermoengine /Delta and got load temps (socket temps) of 45'c with an ambient of 22 (case open though) and with a PEP66 w/Delta I got a load temp of 48 (case open) and an ambient of 22. This was at 1533, 1.96v. The MC462 gave the same load temp as the TE but with a higher ambient (26) , again with the case open.
What I have noticed is that my motherboard is warped slightly under the zif socket. Although I have made sure that the MC is sitting ok by taking it off and checking the AS2 residue trace.
I am going to try out the TE w/Delta tomorrow and see what sort of "real" temps I get with that.
cheers for the help
mj
btw- did you see the pic of the thermistor glued to the Tbird? Notice the fingerprint ? I nearly stuck my finger to the chip
Just got it off in time and than had to scrape the super glue off with a razor - what a dummy I am
my rig is now running wihtout the shim (forgot to mention that) and the temps are exactly the same. I did the socket thermistor bend / AS trick too.
I definitely think there is something amiss with the MC462 -
I have tried a Thermoengine /Delta and got load temps (socket temps) of 45'c with an ambient of 22 (case open though) and with a PEP66 w/Delta I got a load temp of 48 (case open) and an ambient of 22. This was at 1533, 1.96v. The MC462 gave the same load temp as the TE but with a higher ambient (26) , again with the case open.
What I have noticed is that my motherboard is warped slightly under the zif socket. Although I have made sure that the MC is sitting ok by taking it off and checking the AS2 residue trace.
I am going to try out the TE w/Delta tomorrow and see what sort of "real" temps I get with that.
cheers for the help
mj
btw- did you see the pic of the thermistor glued to the Tbird? Notice the fingerprint ? I nearly stuck my finger to the chip
Just got it off in time and than had to scrape the super glue off with a razor - what a dummy I am - Joined
- Feb 13, 2001
- Location
- Twin Cities
We have all left the occasional "lasting impression" on our glue work. ;D
I went back and looked over your pictures closely. The shoulder washers between the brass standoffs and the kt7a look different than the ones on mine. They seem to be thicker. If that was a problem, I don't think you would have gotten such a good dispersion of the AS on the core in the pictures though.
I am stumped.
Hoot
I went back and looked over your pictures closely. The shoulder washers between the brass standoffs and the kt7a look different than the ones on mine. They seem to be thicker. If that was a problem, I don't think you would have gotten such a good dispersion of the AS on the core in the pictures though.
I am stumped.
Hoot
Hi again,
the shoulder washers that came with mine are slightly too "small" for the holes in my board and move about slightly. Are yours the same or were they "snug" ? Out of interest - how "hard" do you have to press he screw/spring down to get it threaded? On mine it only takes a movement of a few mil's to get the screws threaded - whereas if I use a couple of extra washers it is more of a "press" -BUT the temps are lower by a couple of degrees.
I read your mod'd MC462 post and I replied to it - the gist being that there does appear to be something wrong with the thermal transfer on my MC. The pins do get warm but not hot , whereas the base and the motherboard area is "toasty". Have you heard of anyone else having high temps with this cooler ? There have been a couple of reports similar to mine here in the UK (at the overclockingstores forum).
cheers for the help
mj
the shoulder washers that came with mine are slightly too "small" for the holes in my board and move about slightly. Are yours the same or were they "snug" ? Out of interest - how "hard" do you have to press he screw/spring down to get it threaded? On mine it only takes a movement of a few mil's to get the screws threaded - whereas if I use a couple of extra washers it is more of a "press" -BUT the temps are lower by a couple of degrees.
I read your mod'd MC462 post and I replied to it - the gist being that there does appear to be something wrong with the thermal transfer on my MC. The pins do get warm but not hot , whereas the base and the motherboard area is "toasty". Have you heard of anyone else having high temps with this cooler ? There have been a couple of reports similar to mine here in the UK (at the overclockingstores forum).
cheers for the help
mj
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2001
- Location
- Twin Cities
On my KT7A, the shoulder washers fit just right. Not too loose and certainly not snug. I tried adding washers to the spring tensioning screws and more than 2 got no improvement in temps. I am currently using one extra washer on each. If you bent that in-socket thermistor up like I mentioned, you should be able to get sufficiently accurate readings from it. I would remove the thermistor you worked so hard to install, clean everything up and see what the in-socket thermistor reads. This is just to test whether it could be something you are causing with the slip-in thermistor arrangement.
Hoot
Hoot
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