Advice for a real cheap build, capable of 1080p gaming needed

[v1ks_]

Hello all you people (or at least those, who aren't too busy playing Fallout 4, lol)!

I've gotten a little rusty, without any gaming and using laptops only... So I need a quick rundown on the current state of affairs and suggestions for a cheapo gaming build.
At the moment, there isn't even a budget set for the project. I'm more than OK with my EliteBook, but it would like to have a small gaming rig for when my kid visits (divorced, seeing him on weekends) or whenever I feel like doing some gaming myself. Besides that, only other use it will see, is media playback. That is all. For work I have my lappy...

So, the only thing that's more or less set in stone is the form factor. It will be an ITX system. I'm short on space, and I just like compact stuff. Actually never owned an ATX/Full tower system, heh.
The case I've set my eye on a Sugo SG13, CM Seidon 120 for cooling. Not certain about PSU yet, but either way, a modular unit and I would shorten and re-sleeve the cables to make it all clean and pretty...

The part where things stop being as clear is the CPU/GPU/RAM.
I know that in theory I could try to get a H170 + Skylake i5 + 16Gb RAM + GTX960/R9 380, BUT... that's not exactly what I would call cheap. Actually I'd want to spend a lot less than that, if possible. Buying stuff second hand also in an option I am considering...

So, to sum it all up - can someone give me a hand and brainstorm some? Any Ivy Bridge/Haswell alternatives worth looking at, that would cost significantly less? i3 instead of i5 perhaps? Maybe even AMD?! Older gen GPU? What would you get, if in my shoes?

Many, maaaaany thanks!



V.

 

[bob4933]

I'd go for a used haswell system. You'd probably get a lot more bang for the buck that way.

 

[v1ks_]

I'd go for a used haswell system. You'd probably get a lot more bang for the buck that way.

Won't be a lot more, but it will keep the costs down, prices on DDR4 are ridiculous, imho.
Looking at a local ad for a new 4570 with damaged outer packaging for 140eur (around $152)... and OK price for this part of the world. Some would sell a used chip for the same price.

Any suggestions about mobo? Any point looking for a H97 over a H87? M.2 is largely irrelevant in this situation, I think...
What about GPU? Is getting a current gen worth the extra $$$? Can't see any for AMD and for nVidia it's mostly efficiency, no?

 

[v1ks_]

Well, it seems I won't get any other opinions on this one, so... thanks to bob for his take on things.
For now, unless some really sweet deal on second hand hardware comes around, I'll aim for a Z170 board and i3 6100. For now I'll just order stuff that is unlikely to see price fluctuations - case, psu and cooler.

 

[bob4933]

There's not much traffic rigjt now, don't take it personally

Also being in Latvia you're very hard to make recommendations for as the prices and availability there are going to be drastically different. The basic formula is the same really.

That said, i3 doesn't make much sense for gaming most of the time. You can spring up to an i5 for not a whole lot more money.

 

[v1ks_]

There's not much traffic rigjt now, don't take it personally

Also being in Latvia you're very hard to make recommendations for as the prices and availability there are going to be drastically different. The basic formula is the same really.

That said, i3 doesn't make much sense for gaming most of the time. You can spring up to an i5 for not a whole lot more money.

Oh, not taking it personal, really...
I see it's somewhat quiet, by looking at how other threads are progressing and I also acknowledge that not many people find budget builds interesting, or discussion worthy, hehe.
The prices, to my surprise, are actually more or less the same. Only thing missing is sweet promotions and deals and bundles, that you guys get.
It does get really bad when looking at used hardware. Most people just go by the price they once paid and not the current situation in the market (seriously, some people are trying to sell their used two or three generations old GPU at the price of it's new current gen competitor). I've even checked the classifieds here and in some cases, it would be cheaper for me to get something shipped here from the States, than buy the same thing here, heh.

That being said, I'm leaning towards the i3, because it has received praises in couple of places which have attempted budget gaming builds and because it's a significantly cheaper entry point to Skylake.
Over here the prices are as follows: i3 3100 is $125.50, i5 6400 is $192.2 and i5 6500 is $211.2. That makes the cheapest i5 about 65% more expensive than the i3. Considering the build won't be getting a GPU that would be bottlenecked by the CPU and the Z170 board would allow the use of fast RAM... it seems to me that i3 would be a worthy occupant of the CPU slot, until an upgrade can be made further down the road.
Am I wrong?

 

[Dlaw]

Well, look at it this way: If you buy an i3 now, and then upgrade to an i5 later on, that's $125.50+$192.20 (or more) = $317.70 = not much less than an i7 for an i5. And since you're considering a Z170 board, I'm assuming you want to overclock? If so, the i5 6600K is your only option right now, and it's $270 here. Buying the i3 and then the 6600K puts you within $5 of an i7 6700K. Or, you could spring for an i5 and save $125.50 in the long run. If you want to go for a cheap chip now and upgrade later, I'd wait just a little while for a Pentium chip (expected to retail here somewhere in the $70 range) to become available there, and grab that. Then you're only out a much lighter $70.

I just have a hard time recommending an i3 for a gamer. They're essentially a Pentium with HT, and hyperthreading a dual core CPU doesn't do enough from a gaming standpoint for me to warrant a ~$50 markup. They (i3s) have their place, but in my mind, not in a gaming rig.

 

[v1ks_]

Well, look at it this way: If you buy an i3 now, and then upgrade to an i5 later on, that's $125.50+$192.20 (or more) = $317.70 = not much less than an i7 for an i5. And since you're considering a Z170 board, I'm assuming you want to overclock? If so, the i5 6600K is your only option right now, and it's $270 here. Buying the i3 and then the 6600K puts you within $5 of an i7 6700K. Or, you could spring for an i5 and save $125.50 in the long run. If you want to go for a cheap chip now and upgrade later, I'd wait just a little while for a Pentium chip (expected to retail here somewhere in the $70 range) to become available there, and grab that. Then you're only out a much lighter $70.

I just have a hard time recommending an i3 for a gamer. They're essentially a Pentium with HT, and hyperthreading a dual core CPU doesn't do enough from a gaming standpoint for me to warrant a ~$50 markup. They (i3s) have their place, but in my mind, not in a gaming rig.

Thanks for the reply Dlaw!

The Z board is there because H boards support RAM speeds only up to 2133Mhz. No overclocking planned.
Guys over here came to conclusion that with everything else identical, difference between 2133Mhz and 2666Mhz justifies the price premium you have to pay for a Z170 board over a H170 board. Even without that in the equation, this is going to be an ITX build, in a Sugo SG13, with only a single fan AIO cooler (or dual slim, if I can find a way) and only the PSU as an exhaust (that, or passive exhaust). Yes, I know I'm weird... :lol:

As for the math bit... here's my trail of thoughts: i3 now, then upgrade to i5 (possibly second hand) in a year or so and sell off the i3 to recover some the losses. It shouldn't be that bad... no?

Now for the Pentium bit - now that DOES sound like a waste of money. I don't think they'll have anything like G3258 in the Skylake line-up... Will they? Even then, that chip seems to be only somewhat good, if pushed real hard? Aaaaand even then, it remains a dual-core without HT... dunno. :/

I haven't completely abandoned the Haswell option just yet. Have a few friends, who have some friends, who are working for some internet retailers. Perhaps I'll manage to get access to some local retailer RMA warehouses, or whatever they're called. I remember that long time ago I actually had access to such place. Usually they just auctioned off stuff that has been returned under the 14-day rule, or RMA'd and replaced by the manufacturer. Could find some really sweet deals there...


Also, thank you both, for throwing ideas my way. Much appreciated!

 

[Dlaw]

Thanks for the reply Dlaw!

The Z board is there because H boards support RAM speeds only up to 2133Mhz. No overclocking planned.
Guys over here came to conclusion that with everything else identical, difference between 2133Mhz and 2666Mhz justifies the price premium you have to pay for a Z170 board over a H170 board. Even without that in the equation, this is going to be an ITX build, in a Sugo SG13, with only a single fan AIO cooler (or dual slim, if I can find a way) and only the PSU as an exhaust (that, or passive exhaust). Yes, I know I'm weird... :lol:

As for the math bit... here's my trail of thoughts: i3 now, then upgrade to i5 (possibly second hand) in a year or so and sell off the i3 to recover some the losses. It shouldn't be that bad... no?

Now for the Pentium bit - now that DOES sound like a waste of money. I don't think they'll have anything like G3258 in the Skylake line-up... Will they? Even then, that chip seems to be only somewhat good, if pushed real hard? Aaaaand even then, it remains a dual-core without HT... dunno. :/

I haven't completely abandoned the Haswell option just yet. Have a few friends, who have some friends, who are working for some internet retailers. Perhaps I'll manage to get access to some local retailer RMA warehouses, or whatever they're called. I remember that long time ago I actually had access to such place. Usually they just auctioned off stuff that has been returned under the 14-day rule, or RMA'd and replaced by the manufacturer. Could find some really sweet deals there...


Also, thank you both, for throwing ideas my way. Much appreciated!

I honestly don't think you're going to be able to sell the i3 for anything, simply because the people who want i3s generally buy them in a prebuilt. The i3 isn't an enthusiast part, more like a business part. Aside from that, the i3 doesn't perform much better than the Pentium (certainly not enough for the ~75% markup) in games, because HT isn't really supported very well by games.

Check out this comparison, you'll find that, although the pentium doesn't perform as well, it does perform fine and cost considerably less.

It's your money, and if you feel like the i3 is the better deal, go for it. But I can't recommend that route.

 

[v1ks_]

I honestly don't think you're going to be able to sell the i3 for anything, simply because the people who want i3s generally buy them in a prebuilt. The i3 isn't an enthusiast part, more like a business part. Aside from that, the i3 doesn't perform much better than the Pentium (certainly not enough for the ~75% markup) in games, because HT isn't really supported very well by games.

Check out this comparison, you'll find that, although the pentium doesn't perform as well, it does perform fine and cost considerably less.

It's your money, and if you feel like the i3 is the better deal, go for it. But I can't recommend that route.

Thanks for the reply.
Guess I should apologize, just in case I sound negative, or stubborn, or whatever... That's totally not the case. I'm just really inquisitive by nature, so I normally have a million why's and what if's.

I hadn't looked at G4500 for now. Will read up some and see what the general consensus is. For a placeholder, I totally agree, it's a much better solution than i3 6100. I guess the big question is if they're actually the same in real life situations, as the benchmarks suggest.

Thanks!

Keep 'em opinions and ideas coming!
They're appreciated!