After installing H50, loud whirring p/p fans noise & higher-than-expected temps?

[Kabigon]

After installing H50, loud whining p/p fans noise & higher-than-expected temps?

My system specs:

i7 930
Asus P6T SE
Antec 900 (semi-modded)
Antec TruePower 650W
2x Gentle Typhoon AP-15 fans for push-pull

Hey everyone. After an extremely frustrating install that was full of questions and head-scratches, I have finally set up my first aftermarket cooling system: the Corsair H50 (at least, I think so!). However, there are two things that I believe are not normal or maybe what I think is definitely not right. I have been analyzing what may be the fault or solution:

1) There is a loud whining/blowing/idling fan noise that is coming from the 2 GT AP-15 push-pull fans. I originally set my fan+radiator assembly as an intake that looks something like this:

*Rear of case*Fan>>H50Radiator>>Fan*Front of case*

However, there is a loud sound in which I am not sure why the fans are making the sound. It almost sounds like some sort of pressure going on. I have double checked the direction of the fans, and indeed the fans look and seem like they're blowing air INTO the case (hence, intake). Although when I place my hands on the back of the fans, I can feel some slight air blowing too. Actually, when I put my hands behind the back of the supposed direction of ANY case fans, it seems I can feel some air as well. I guess this is just normal--nevertheless, I am 100% sure the p/p fans are in the right direction.

What I think may be wrong:

1a) AP-15 fans malfunctioning? (though I highly doubt this)
1b) Radiator malfunctioning?
1c) Perhaps I need some kind of shroom/grommet or some vibration-control or some washers in between the fans/radiator? Or something wrong with my screw placements? I've used 8 screws in all of same size and same washer size (as recommended by the Corsair YT & How-To vids). They're screwed in very tightly, too! However, I have heard many similar setups with my case/fan/H50/other hardware combinations without any problems. :-(

2) The other thing I noticed is when I booted up my system, the temps look a little off with the H50. After just viewing what my idle is in the MB & in Windows, they seem to be somewhere around 30-35 degrees at stock 2.8 GHz. I expected to be better. My ambient room temperature is cool. I understand that stock temperatures do not mean anything, but I was hoping something in the range of 22-28 at stock, given I am using the already-applied Shin-Etsu TIM paste that comes with H50 over my previous stock HSF/stock paste. I have not tested the CPU at a true load, but it seems to be jumping around 40-45 at 15%+ load when I tested it briefly in Windows via the Core Temp program. Fans and pump are installed correctly and it seems they're running at full speed.

What I may think could be attributing to this (if this is indeed not normal):

2a) I mentioned previously in my other posts that there were imperfections on my TIM paste when I bought the H50 pump. I was re-assured that this would be okay. It looked like there was some unevenness on the outer edges. No biggie. Unfortunately, I was also having a difficult time installing the Prior to getting the pump onto the bracket, I had smeared some of the TIM paste onto the outer edge of the CPU. I had attempted at least 10 times before I could push the actual pump and lock it into its bracket. However, I had smeared some already on the CPU. Please see pics here: http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1663/pumpp.jpg (pump) & http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4831/cpuil.jpg (cpu)

This is what it looked like. A well 30+ minutes after this happened, I finally got the pump into its place. I may or may not have smeared more as I locked it into place. Do you think I should clean/reset the pump/CPU with my own thermal paste? (I only got some MX-2 at this moment). Or do you think it would have been okay? I guess I was concerned for either air bubbles or just imperfections in the paste creating a terrible contact (although it was on the OUTER edge), etc.

2b) Browsing through the Corsair forums, the other thing I could think of was either a defective H50 pump

2c) Or maybe I am not locking the pump/bracket into place enough, or the screws were too tight. Or something similar.

2d) I also DID NOT use the ADHESIVE PADS. Maybe is it possible the adhesive gives more space for the screws to work? (someone said it may act like a washer mod?) Thus, the bracket/pump did not situate itself correctly?

Any suggestions? Thank you all for your help!

 

[LennyRhys]

It's hard to comment on the air noise given we can't hear it for ourselves; the Gentle Typhoons move a lot of air so what you're hearing could be perfectly normal. Two of these fans in push-pull isn't going to be silent (far from it).

Where temps are concerned, you must look at your load temps - as you said yourself, idle temps mean pretty much nothing.

It is possible that there is too much TIM on the H50 (it should be applied very sparingly) and it is also possible that it is not seated correctly. However the best way to be sure of this is to stress your CPU by putting it under full load - use Prime 95 for simplicity (it launches a popup start button when you open the .exe file).

One thing to remember is that Core i7 chips run HOT, so don't worry if you see it go 75-80C. My i7920 went that high with the stock cooler and at stock settings.

Once you have run Prime95 and report peak/average load temps after 10-20 minutes, people will get a much better idea of your predicament (if there is one!).

 

[Kabigon]

Thanks for the reply. Sorry, I am replying a bit late as I have been quite busy.

Anyhow, I have uploaded a short video of what the fans sound like:

With pump plugged in:

Without pump plugged in:

I hope this helps in diagnosing what I may have. I apologize if the video is too dark or unclear--I can always reshoot or make a new video. I'm still not sure why the sound sounds like a "whirlwind"/whing sounds like some kind of pressure blowing. It's pretty loud as apparent from the video. Also, for sure, I know it's not the pump because when I unplug the pump, the sound is still there!

I still have not messed with the temps yet. I am really wanting to figure out WHY I have this SOUND/FAN problem with the two push pull AP-15 fans. After that has been figured out, I will then test the temps and see if my pump is faulty or needs to be reseated. Any suggestions?

 

[Conumdrum]

You put the fans in push pull into the case and you say the fans are in the right direction, blowing into the case. What did you do with the rest of the case fans? They need reversed also, at least some of them.

Your idle temps look very fine to me. Even my high end watercooling and my chip at stock speeds doesn't idle that low, I'm in the low 30's. My radiator is 3 times yours and the block etc is MUCH more efficient. Watercooling isn't magic. And the H50 isn't for sure. There are better air coolers than the H50. So you still have higher than you expect idle temps. I could see idle temps of 24C if my room was 58F.

Ohh ambient temps matter, my room is 80F right now.

You could of messed up your TIM paste. Please use something like HW Monitor to look at core temps. Only core temps. If they are in the 30's at idle and within 10C of each other, and in the 60's running prime for 15 minutes, your fine.

Check your case fans.....................

 

[Kabigon]

So, my two AP-15 p/p fans are in intake mode. The air is blowing INTO the case.

The rest of the fans on my Antec 900 are untouched. I have a huge fan on the top 200mm EXHAUSTING AIR (@ medium speed). My two 120m fans in the front are intake (low-speed). I may take the 120mm fan I removed to accommodate the 2x AP-15s and put it on the side to also do another intake, but that is after I try to determine why my fans are so loud. :-(

 

[LennyRhys]

From what I can see in the video, the fans sound exactly as I would expect them to...but it is just a video, and there's only so much you can tell. When you say you have a sound problem, what is your basis for comparison? It is possible that every user with two AP-15s on an H50 radiator hears the same thing as you are hearing.

One thing worth remembering is that AP-15s are considered by some people not to be "quiet" which is why not everybody wants to use them, in spite of their laudible radiator performance. Furthermore, putting any fan next to a radiator or heatsink definitely creates more air noise and the fan will appear louder...two fans on the same radiator will be even louder still.

The only way to be absolutely sure would be to test the fans by themselves in three different scenarios: open air, one fan with radiator (test push + pull separately), and both fans with radiator.

I have a 12V adapter which I have modified to a simple 4-pin molex connector, and it allows me to plug fans into the mains so that I can hear/test them by themselves. If you have a spare 12V adapter lying around it's definitely worth trying.

 

[Kabigon]

I have made a new video depicting what it would sound like with the push fan plugged in only and vice versa (pull fan plugged in only):

The optical dvd-rw drive, hard drive, other case fans, and pump are still plugged in.

It seems they are both on equal loudness with the pull fan being slightly louder. This may be because that front is on the front and more audible to the camera/myself.

The basis for my comparison in loudness is that:

1) The fans/setup is MUCH louder than my original stock HSF combination that came with my i7 CPU. I thought this would be quieter. :-(
2) From other users with H50 + 2x AP-15, it seems they're getting a "remarkably quieter" setup. They have compared it with me personally and says mine sound loud for some odd reason.

Also, both those two fans are connected to the mobo's 3-pin connectors. In the BIOS, it shows one fan running around 1780 rpm and the other fan around 1750 rpm. I believe the AP-15s are rated at a max of 1850 rpm, so it looks like they're running at about 90% speed right now.

What do you guys think? The fans sound normal or not? I am going to try testing my temps with Prime95. I'll try testing what my temps are at stock versus overclocked (I'm hoping to get at least 3.6-3.8 GHz with my setup). Hopefully, my H50 and it's setup is OK... but it seems others are getting better results. *sigh*

 

[Conumdrum]

It won't be quiter, your new fans and H50 are right at the port of the case.

Your quiet might not be what others call quiet. Have the folks with the same setup listened to your recording?

Fan speed looks fine, no worries. Few circuits except a direct molex give 12VDC. Try the fans right off a molex.

Lastly, it really sounds like a, almost a vibration. Maybe check for something loose, could be anywhere on the case really.

Dunno, sound can be a fun thing to work out. As far as temps, best of luck on what YOUR chip etc can give you for a good overclock....

 

[LennyRhys]

Yeah, the intel stock HSF is virtually silent except for when it really picks up speed.

And I agree with Conumdrum - there's definitely some sort of buzzing or clicking sound coming from the fans... no idea what is causing that. It is much clearer in the last video than in the others. But you described the sound you were hearing as an "air pressure" sound, and the clicking is almost certainly electronic/motor related.

 

[Wyno]

Although it's only a video, and I can't be for certain, I would say it sounds pretty normal. I have a push/pull setup on my H70 and its similar in noise to yours. I also ran a push/pull setup on my 212+ and it sounded almost exactly like your H50. There is a definite audible difference when you have both fans plugged in and running. When I was trying to figure out exactly what the noise was on my 212+ I discovered that it was the way the air was moving over the cooler and through the fans. Different blade designs sound different and they move air differently and create different pressures and that will create different noises. One thing that I found to help out was a fan controller. By adjusting the speeds slightly on the pull fan I was able to change the pitch and sound of the noise. It made a world of difference by changing the speed of the fan by only 50 rpm.

Thats my experience and I hope it helps.

 

[muddocktor]

Yeah, Wyno brings up a very good point about resonance. Just varying the fan speeds a little bit with a fan controller could very well control the noise. Resonance issues are one reason why compound fans such as the Delta GFB and my Sanyo Denki Beast run the impellers at different speeds.

 

[stunt]

My H70 with the stock fans sounds about the same as yours. The difference is I can undervolt the H70 about 40-50 percent and it goes quiet but still cools well. I don't think you could get away with that but you could still cut their speed down a bit.

 

[Kabigon]

Here's an update, guys.

Using SpeedFan, it looks like my two push-pull AP-15 fans were running at full speed, ~1750 rpm. I don't quite fully understand how to read or utilize SpeedFan, but my speeds were at 100% for Speed1, Speed2, Speed3.

When I changed Speed2 to 85% or lower ...Voila! The WHIRRING sound was suddenly quieter. I saw the two fans speed change down to about 1500rpm. It was extremely loud/annoying at 100% (1750rpm+). At 1500 rpm, the sound is not 100% silent, but more bearable. There is still a whining tone...but I think that may be just coming from the push-pull.

Using this LOWERED speed of the p/p fans, I ran Prime95 (Large FFT test) and tested for 15 minutes on my i7 930 running at stock 2.8 GHz. Everything passed. Using CPU-Z, at 100% load my CPU read 1.240V. My 6GB RAM was also running at its non-OC'ed DDR3-1066.

My temperature readings using Core Temp after 15 minutes of 100% load were: 58, 55, 58, 54 for each of the cores. This was with no OC'ing and a lowered p/p speed (more managable in terms of sound!) What do you guys think? Is my H50 or push-pull fans still faulty? Not sure why it was so loud at 1750+ rpm!

Anyways, I would like to OC my CPU from 2.8 to at least 3.6-3.8 GHz. Is this still achievable with my hardware, or the better questions are:

1) Are my temps OK for my non-OC? What do you think?
2) Will I need to increase my P/P fan speeds to accommodate the OC? I still don't know why my system isn't quiet. Although SpeedFan turned down my two p/p fans to something more tolerable, there's still a very slight air pressure whine. I'm not sure if it probably has to do something with the resonance of the fans. Maybe some sort of grill/gasket will do?

 

[LennyRhys]

Depends on the idle temps and whether or not you have HT enabled, but at first look I'd say 54-58C is pretty good for a 920. My 920 went up to 80C with the stock cooler and at stock frequency, and that was just blend test LOL.

 

[Kabigon]

My 930 was at stock 2.8 GHz, I believe. HT was on. Idle temps didn't really matter because I had SpeedStep + some other throttling settings on. I think I was idling around 1.7 GHz @ 0.9vCore, around 29-32C. Anyhow, I am testing out my OC now and made a new thread in the other section of the forums, but I am stuck on if I am doing it properly.

Please see thread here and advise: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=679809.

Thank you for your help!

 

[Metlcub]

wow At stock speed I get like low 40c with my Frio, Im sitting at 1.25v 4.2ghz and Max temp is 70c prime95 for like 1hr.. if your going to keep stock you can prob drop your cpu voltage down to like 1.17 and lower the temps more. I was running 3.2ghz at 1.16v. seems a little high for stock speed

 

[Conumdrum]

Here's an update, guys.

Using SpeedFan, it looks like my two push-pull AP-15 fans were running at full speed, ~1750 rpm. I don't quite fully understand how to read or utilize SpeedFan, but my speeds were at 100% for Speed1, Speed2, Speed3.

When I changed Speed2 to 85% or lower ...Voila! The WHIRRING sound was suddenly quieter. I saw the two fans speed change down to about 1500rpm. It was extremely loud/annoying at 100% (1750rpm+). At 1500 rpm, the sound is not 100% silent, but more bearable. There is still a whining tone...but I think that may be just coming from the push-pull.

Using this LOWERED speed of the p/p fans, I ran Prime95 (Large FFT test) and tested for 15 minutes on my i7 930 running at stock 2.8 GHz. Everything passed. Using CPU-Z, at 100% load my CPU read 1.240V. My 6GB RAM was also running at its non-OC'ed DDR3-1066.

My temperature readings using Core Temp after 15 minutes of 100% load were: 58, 55, 58, 54 for each of the cores. This was with no OC'ing and a lowered p/p speed (more managable in terms of sound!) What do you guys think? Is my H50 or push-pull fans still faulty? Not sure why it was so loud at 1750+ rpm!

Anyways, I would like to OC my CPU from 2.8 to at least 3.6-3.8 GHz. Is this still achievable with my hardware, or the better questions are:

1) Are my temps OK for my non-OC? What do you think?
2) Will I need to increase my P/P fan speeds to accommodate the OC? I still don't know why my system isn't quiet. Although SpeedFan turned down my two p/p fans to something more tolerable, there's still a very slight air pressure whine. I'm not sure if it probably has to do something with the resonance of the fans. Maybe some sort of grill/gasket will do?

Can you try knocking the pushing fan down 100 RPM? Sometimes running them at the same speed causes odd noises.

You have room to overclock. Take into account that your temps may increase as summer gets hotter if thats an issue. Go for 75ish under max load w/Prime etc. Your regular usage temps should be lower. Any overclock that after 15 min Prime pushes the CPU to 80C is too hot. No reason to push it.

Once your get it all done you can start saving for a full on WC loop.