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Air flow improvements ( Need Advice )

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Gabb

Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Hey although I plan to RMA my evga 8800 gtx in December when I go on vacation for 2 weeks because it gets as hot as 90+ celcius during gaming and sometimes crashes ( idles at 75 during hot days ) I figure a large part of my problem is my air flow. I have a thermaltake armor case and I think my q6600 chips are at acceptable temps ( my HSF is a tuniq tower and the chips never go over 58 celcius during load ). The thermaltake armor 8000 BWS case comes with 2 intake fans ( one top and front ) and 1 exhaust fan in the back. The fans themselves seem pretty weak ( especially my PSU fan ) and don’t seem to intake or exhaust that much air at all. Theres no more space for any additional fans so I figure all I can do now is concentrate on air flow since the air gets really hot underneath my desk where my computer resides. Currently my setup is this:

PS: The diagram I provided is a plan view ( top down ) not a side view with me sitting in the desk facing the wall

WWWWWWWWWW
DAAAAAA2AAA 1 D
DAAAAAAAAAA C D
DAAAAAAAAAA C D
DAAAAAAAAAA C D

D= desk walls
W=room wall
C= computer tower
A=empty space
1=spot 1 referenced below
2=spot 2 reference below

The computer tower is underneath the desk and as you can see has very little room in the back ( just enough to fit a small fan through all the wiring coming out from behind and unfortunately no room on the rear right side. I was thinking to maybe have an external intake fan on the left side ( spot 2 ) pushing the hot air from under the desk or maybe squeezing a small external exhaust fan ( spot 1 ) directly behind the computer pointing to the right to push the hot air to the right side and hopefully the majority of the hot air from under the desk. So far I’m leaning toward the spot 1 option, my only worry is the external fan in the back will be pushing hot air back into the computer even though its not pointed in that direction. Air flow seems to be a relatively confusing calculation. I don’t know much about air flow…anyone have any ideas?

Typically rivatuner reports ambient temperatures of 10 degrees less then the GPU temp, which means around 70-85 celcius during gaming which yes I know is very hot, I have no idea how accurate rivatuner is but the air is pretty hot back there

PS: Also is there anyway to increase the fan RPM without totally destroying my case fans or whatever? I don’t know too much about this stuff…sometimes I even think my case fans are dying since they seem so weak. Some have told me to switch the top fan and make it an exhaust instead of an intake but I’m weary to do this because why would Thermaltake armor do this in the first place? Also I maxed wire management as best I could and theres only SATA cables no IDE, also I really hate how the SATA ports are right next to the video card so the wires can't help but block the stock cooler on the card a bit.
__________________
System stats:
q6600 g0
Gigabyte P-35 DS3R
WD Raptor 150 and Seagate 320
Samsung DVD Burner and ASUS DVD Rom
Thermaltake armor case
Corsair HX 620 watt PSU
Tuniq tower 120 w/MX-1
EVGA 8800 GTX
2 gigs of G.Skill DDR 800 PC6400 HZ Ram
X-Fi Xtreme Gamer card
Logitech MX-518
Logitech G11 keyboard
Dell 22 inch monitor to show me the glory

3dmark06: 11693 ( everything stock )
 

unspokenzero

New Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Location
Tokyo, JP
there are a few stickies on the cooling page. read them and you will understand a little better about cooling, airflow and you can probably figure out what is wrong with your setup and why your temps are the way they are.

My suggestion is to post a pic of your setup so that we can see and let you know what you can do to improve your airflow thus lowering your internal temps. From what you described is that the hot air exausted from your machine is being recycled so there is no temprature drop from bringing in good fresh air. Try re-locating your machine to a more open space and seeing if that effects your tempratures.
 

dicko555

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Location
Australia
Hi, I appreciate the work you went to trying to explain your set up, but trying to work out those W's D's C's etc is giving me a headache.:eh?:
If you can post a pic or two of your system it would make it much easier.
 

Blazing fire

Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Hi, I appreciate the work you went to trying to explain your set up, but trying to work out those W's D's C's etc is giving me a headache.:eh?:
If you can post a pic or two of your system it would make it much easier.

I shall echo this :santa:
 

baditude_df

Northern Senior
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
ROFL!

Please post a picture. I don't care if you have to draw arrows with MSPaint to show airflow. We'll be happy to help you.
 

1ad7

Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Location
San Antonio, TX
I can say right now you will get a huge boost from putting it next to or ontop of the desk rather than under.
 
OP
G

Gabb

Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
I can say right now you will get a huge boost from putting it next to or ontop of the desk rather than under.



due to popular demand I made a crummy diagram already explaining my current setup and what i may plan

note: moving the tower to another location or putting it on top of the desk is not a option for me, theres simply no space and its a full sized tower



 

terran2k

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2004
okay, lets see here, you say that Rivatuner reports your ambient temp as 75-80 degrees. But your CPU never goes above 58 degrees loaded. If your ambient temp is that high, your cpu temp would go higher. I would think it's more of poor air flow around your videocard.
 

jason4207

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Location
Concord, NC
okay, lets see here, you say that Rivatuner reports your ambient temp as 75-80 degrees. But your CPU never goes above 58 degrees loaded. If your ambient temp is that high, your cpu temp would go higher. I would think it's more of poor air flow around your videocard.

The 'ambient' temp in RivaTuner is a sensor located on the PCB. On the 8800GTX the PCB can indeed get that hot.



If better airflow will help your situation then I'm not sure why you are RMAing. Won't the new card do the same thing?

Have you blown all the dust out of the card?


Can you take a pic of the inside of your case? I have an Armor as well, and I also have it under my desk.

Depending on how much time/money you plan on spending to get temps down, it might be worthwhile to get an aftermarket cooler.


Edit: That green fan...where is it drawing air from? It looks like its up against the desk wall.
 
OP
G

Gabb

Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
The 'ambient' temp in RivaTuner is a sensor located on the PCB. On the 8800GTX the PCB can indeed get that hot.



If better airflow will help your situation then I'm not sure why you are RMAing. Won't the new card do the same thing?

Have you blown all the dust out of the card?


Can you take a pic of the inside of your case? I have an Armor as well, and I also have it under my desk.

Depending on how much time/money you plan on spending to get temps down, it might be worthwhile to get an aftermarket cooler.


Edit: That green fan...where is it drawing air from? It looks like its up against the desk wall.

In another thread on another forum I stated that I got 10 celcius lower temps about 1.5 years ago with the card so that I suspected some kind of wearing down expansion/contraction issue which caused the thermal paste seperation slowly and no I don't feel comfortable with removing the cooler and putting some thermal paste although I have mx-1, even the evga tech guys tell me to just RMA it

Where would a aftermarket cooler go? I already have a HSF tuniq tower that keeps my chips cool

Concerning the green fan, its not drawing air from anything and it is up against the desk wall, its purpose is hopefully to just push the hot air coming from the back exhaust fans so it doesn't build hot air in the back, will it be effective? I dont really know...

Unfortunately getting a new desk isn't a option with the time/money/labor involved
 

Blazing fire

Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
In another thread on another forum I stated that I got 10 celcius lower temps about 1.5 years ago with the card so that I suspected some kind of wearing down expansion/contraction issue which caused the thermal paste seperation slowly and no I don't feel comfortable with removing the cooler and putting some thermal paste although I have mx-1, even the evga tech guys tell me to just RMA it

I experienced that on my old 8800gts 320mb.
 

jason4207

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Location
Concord, NC
In another thread on another forum I stated that I got 10 celcius lower temps about 1.5 years ago with the card so that I suspected some kind of wearing down expansion/contraction issue which caused the thermal paste seperation slowly and no I don't feel comfortable with removing the cooler and putting some thermal paste although I have mx-1, even the evga tech guys tell me to just RMA it

Where would a aftermarket cooler go? I already have a HSF tuniq tower that keeps my chips cool

Concerning the green fan, its not drawing air from anything and it is up against the desk wall, its purpose is hopefully to just push the hot air coming from the back exhaust fans so it doesn't build hot air in the back, will it be effective? I dont really know...

Unfortunately getting a new desk isn't a option with the time/money/labor involved

Aftermarket cooler that I was speaking of goes on your gfx card, but if you're not comfortable doing that I understand. Did you try blowing the dust out of the stock cooler w/ some canned air?

If the green fan is up against the desk wall it won't be moving any air at all. A fan has to be able to pull air in if its going to push any air out. Fans don't create their own air.
 

DragoXT

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2005
Well a sure fire way to see if it is an airflow issue is to take the side panel off your case and get an regular fan and have it blow inside your case. Go and play some games and see what your temps are now, and they will likely be lower. If that is the case then you just need to make sure you have adequate intake and exhaust for your case. Having a bit more intake than exhaust is what you would like to achieve so you dont get gobs of dust in your case, you still will get it but not as bad. Plus this ensures that you have alot more cooler air in your system. For exhausting, you will want any fan that is in the back up top blowing out of the system, and fans in the front and side panel blowing into the system. Since you have a hot vid card, having a fan on the side panel blowing on it might not be a bad idea to make sure it gets fresh air, and if the pocket of hot air under it is to much a pci exhaust blower is a good option. Cleaning up the wires in your case is something else that will help with airflow. You dont want a ton of wires in the way of that precious air, it just creates turbulence and creates dead zones where heat just builds up.
 
OP
G

Gabb

Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Aftermarket cooler that I was speaking of goes on your gfx card, but if you're not comfortable doing that I understand. Did you try blowing the dust out of the stock cooler w/ some canned air?

If the green fan is up against the desk wall it won't be moving any air at all. A fan has to be able to pull air in if its going to push any air out. Fans don't create their own air.

hmmm well isnt the air the green fan is drawing will push the hot air thats building behind the computer? Should I move the green fan more to the right?
 
OP
G

Gabb

Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
hmmm well isnt the air the green fan is drawing will push the hot air thats building behind the computer? Should I move the green fan more to the right?

Bump, can anyone answer the question?

Also *update*
Wow I just made a pretty crazy discovery, since I've been monitoring my temps very closely now adays ( when playing games I frequently alt tab and leave rivatuner showing me temp history ) anyways I noticed my external fan in the back wasn't doing much ( in terms of changing temps ) but when I stuck an external high powered fan blowing air into the CPU ( hence acting like an intake fan ) the load temps lowered about 5 celcius! I guess this means my computer wasn't getting enough intake ( to equal out intake and exhaust ) or its causing it to have negative/positive pressure? ( I forget which one is which ), anyways the results are pretty consistant since I've been testing it all this morning, when I turn the fan off the temps go up 5 celcius after 5 minutes of play and when i turn it on they go about 5 celcius down after 5 minutes of play, I really didn't expect to find such concrete results!

Only down side to all this is the external fans are getting my lower body pretty cold :(