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AMD|Intel SMP FAQ - WIP
- Thread starter Twisted
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2001
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- Rosemount, MN
I have a antec 300W psu for my dual PIII 1000EB socket 370. I have 2 drives, a gig of ram, 2 isa cards, zip drive, floppy, dvd, digidoc, agp, 2 glaciators, and four 80mm fans. power is fine. might want to add that to your power supply section.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2002
- Location
- Oregon, The InteLinux State
Windows NT 4.0 is SMP capable
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2002
- Location
- Portland, Or, USA
Just to say, the dual XP1800 system in my sig is running on a 465w Enermax w/ ActivePFC just fine 
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
- Location
- Pella, IA
Just a little more info to contribute to the VRM section:
The PIII Xeons on a 133mhz FSB don't require any VRMs, as the VRM is actually on the CPU cartridge. You can spot these when the CPU is labeled 5v/12v. This requires a mobo like the Intel SBT2 or something similar. You don't have too many choices on mobos with those.
All 133mhz FSB PIII Xeons are: 1 GHz, 933 MHz, 866 MHz, 800 MHz, 733 MHz, 667 MHz, or 600 MHz
PIII Xeons 550mhz and slower (as well as 700mhz, and 900mhz) require an external, or mobo integrated VRM.
All PII Xeons all require an external, or mobo integrated VRM (no on-cartridge ones). Depending on how the mobo manufacturer has built the board, it should have 3 VRMS, as PII Xeons run the L2 cache at a higher voltage than the CPU core. Cores are all 2.0v, and L2 can be 2.5v or 2.7v. I assume most manufacturers would at least have the L2 VRM onboard.
Please correct anything if it's wrong - this stuff is tough to figure out when the information is buried everywhere in documents that are years old.
The PIII Xeons on a 133mhz FSB don't require any VRMs, as the VRM is actually on the CPU cartridge. You can spot these when the CPU is labeled 5v/12v. This requires a mobo like the Intel SBT2 or something similar. You don't have too many choices on mobos with those.
All 133mhz FSB PIII Xeons are: 1 GHz, 933 MHz, 866 MHz, 800 MHz, 733 MHz, 667 MHz, or 600 MHz
PIII Xeons 550mhz and slower (as well as 700mhz, and 900mhz) require an external, or mobo integrated VRM.
All PII Xeons all require an external, or mobo integrated VRM (no on-cartridge ones). Depending on how the mobo manufacturer has built the board, it should have 3 VRMS, as PII Xeons run the L2 cache at a higher voltage than the CPU core. Cores are all 2.0v, and L2 can be 2.5v or 2.7v. I assume most manufacturers would at least have the L2 VRM onboard.
Please correct anything if it's wrong - this stuff is tough to figure out when the information is buried everywhere in documents that are years old.
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2003
- Location
- Reality most of the time.
PPRO comment and question
Noticed the High PS recommendations. I've been hurt a few years and have not been building systems. But i can tell you i have been running dual PPRO 200 @ 233 on a supermicro P6DNF for about 4 years on a generic 200watt that was originally from a 1994 dx4100. This PS has also supported a full hight micropolis umm 1542 if mem servs, 4 IDE 2 CD burners a tape backup unit (floppy chain) and until recently 2 scsi 1 gig seagates. I'd lose the full hgigh but i'm lazy and the os which i upgraded from NT 4.0 to 2000 AS is sitting on it and it's a true Pain in the *** to move os from scsi to ide. I tend to not reinstall o.s's it's a character flaw
ANYWAY... MY question.
I have a ASUS P3C i've been running a 800 @ 1G for like a year or so and i'd like to go dual on this board for encodeing. But i have no clue about the chips in the last 2 years. I"VE been laid up with Major Back Problems...not freeze dried
MY question is what is the highest SMP slot one combination avail? ARE the p4 chips slot1 comp? with a convertor board? I realize i should do my homework but this forum seems ready made for these type questions and since when reasearching these very questions i found this Kick-*** place i figured i'd field the question here. And surf some porn while i wait for an answer.
Noticed the High PS recommendations. I've been hurt a few years and have not been building systems. But i can tell you i have been running dual PPRO 200 @ 233 on a supermicro P6DNF for about 4 years on a generic 200watt that was originally from a 1994 dx4100. This PS has also supported a full hight micropolis umm 1542 if mem servs, 4 IDE 2 CD burners a tape backup unit (floppy chain) and until recently 2 scsi 1 gig seagates. I'd lose the full hgigh but i'm lazy and the os which i upgraded from NT 4.0 to 2000 AS is sitting on it and it's a true Pain in the *** to move os from scsi to ide. I tend to not reinstall o.s's it's a character flaw
ANYWAY... MY question.
I have a ASUS P3C i've been running a 800 @ 1G for like a year or so and i'd like to go dual on this board for encodeing. But i have no clue about the chips in the last 2 years. I"VE been laid up with Major Back Problems...not freeze dried
MY question is what is the highest SMP slot one combination avail? ARE the p4 chips slot1 comp? with a convertor board? I realize i should do my homework but this forum seems ready made for these type questions and since when reasearching these very questions i found this Kick-*** place i figured i'd field the question here. And surf some porn while i wait for an answer
.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
- Location
- Pella, IA
The fastest Slot1 would be 1ghz, but you'd be hard pressed to find a pair, and they'd cost you a mint. I saw a pair of 933mhz Slot1s new in box that went for $800+ on ebay.
The P4s are not SMP capable in any way, no matter what you do to them. Intel has seen to it that you buy the Xeons if you want a dual. You can get 2.4ghz Xeons for about $220ea. or so these days, so they aren't too bad if you need them.
If you were to go to a newer board and wanted a PIII of some kind, all the socket-370 ones up to 1.13ghz (coppermine core) will work in SMP. There are even newer PIIIs available on a Tualatin core. These come in two flavors - a 256K and a 512K. The 512K version is called the PIII-S, and is the only one that is SMP capable. The 256K version is not SMP capable in any way.
I own a pair of 1.4ghz Tualatins myself, and they cost me $204 each a couple months ago. From this you can see that Xeons would be a much better choice if you were going to buy new hardware anyway.
If I had it to do over again, I'd get the Xeons in a heartbeat. Don't get me wrong, these Tualatins are very nice, but maaan are they a ripoff compared to the Xeons .
Depending on the money you wish to spend, I might suggest you get another 800mhz Slot1 if you can find a good deal on one. Next step would be to just get a new motherboard, and start from there. You can't go too much farther with the board you have. There are adapters to use the Tualatin PIIIs in a Slot1 board, but they'll cost you $50 each, and then you have to get PIII-S CPUs for ~$200 each, so you could very easily buy new stuff for that kind of cash, and have a faster machine.
Either way, duals are great!
The P4s are not SMP capable in any way, no matter what you do to them. Intel has seen to it that you buy the Xeons if you want a dual. You can get 2.4ghz Xeons for about $220ea. or so these days, so they aren't too bad if you need them.
If you were to go to a newer board and wanted a PIII of some kind, all the socket-370 ones up to 1.13ghz (coppermine core) will work in SMP. There are even newer PIIIs available on a Tualatin core. These come in two flavors - a 256K and a 512K. The 512K version is called the PIII-S, and is the only one that is SMP capable. The 256K version is not SMP capable in any way.
I own a pair of 1.4ghz Tualatins myself, and they cost me $204 each a couple months ago. From this you can see that Xeons would be a much better choice if you were going to buy new hardware anyway.
If I had it to do over again, I'd get the Xeons in a heartbeat. Don't get me wrong, these Tualatins are very nice, but maaan are they a ripoff compared to the Xeons
.Depending on the money you wish to spend, I might suggest you get another 800mhz Slot1 if you can find a good deal on one. Next step would be to just get a new motherboard, and start from there. You can't go too much farther with the board you have. There are adapters to use the Tualatin PIIIs in a Slot1 board, but they'll cost you $50 each, and then you have to get PIII-S CPUs for ~$200 each, so you could very easily buy new stuff for that kind of cash, and have a faster machine.
Either way, duals are great!
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2003
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- Reality most of the time.
Thx for the info man. The 800 cel i got on the board now is a 370 pin on a convertor. i'm not sure what flavor it is. 100 fsb(yeah right...lol..it's been running reliable @133 for a year) .18micron 128k l2. How can i test if it's SMP? If so i'll find a match. Otherwise maybe i'll find a match for a pIII 650 i could only get OC'd to 886. I don't see myself paying 200+ apiece for 2 cpu's. I've been doing this for a livin since 85 and i never pay that kinda cash lol i know the way this market works (I be a cheap *******) Thx in advance man.
Thx in advance man.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
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- Pella, IA
Wow, I just got an email from the bbs TODAY that you had replied to this thread on the 10th.
To be the bringer of bad news, you needn't worry about testing the celeron800 for SMP, as there is no way it can ever be used SMP. It's pretty much the same deal as the P4s - Intel destroys the circuitry needed for SMP operation.
You should be able to get a PIII650 for a reasonable price. That will probably work as good as the celeron too, since it has double the celeron's cache.
Here is a PIII 650Mhz on eBay.
There were no 512K Coppermines, so I'm not sure what that person read it off of, but it would be a good match for your 650 (I'm assuming yours is a slot1).
You could probably do better on price, but that was the only Slot1 650Mhz that I could find on eBay just now. As always with eBay, patience pays off.
To be the bringer of bad news, you needn't worry about testing the celeron800 for SMP, as there is no way it can ever be used SMP. It's pretty much the same deal as the P4s - Intel destroys the circuitry needed for SMP operation.
You should be able to get a PIII650 for a reasonable price. That will probably work as good as the celeron too, since it has double the celeron's cache.
Here is a PIII 650Mhz on eBay.
There were no 512K Coppermines, so I'm not sure what that person read it off of, but it would be a good match for your 650 (I'm assuming yours is a slot1).
You could probably do better on price, but that was the only Slot1 650Mhz that I could find on eBay just now. As always with eBay, patience pays off.
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- Jun 1, 2003
- Location
- Reality most of the time.
Thx again
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2003
I have an Asus P3C-D. It supports Slot P2 and P3, my Bios shows me upto 866, but I am running a P3 1ghz, with a Slot to Socket adaptor, and OCed it to over 1.33ghz, although it wasn't stable at that speed, I did get it to 1.1+ghz stable. A board that should be listed.
I have heard of Dual Celeron Tualatin 1.4ghz before. So I'm not sure anymore.
I have heard of Dual Celeron Tualatin 1.4ghz before. So I'm not sure anymore.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
- Location
- Pella, IA
Foxie3a said:
Dual Tualatin 1.4GHz is certainly possible with that board
, but absolutely not with Celerons. They are SMP disabled internally, and ALL celerons are like this after 533MHz. Also, there are two variants of the PIII Tualatin, as you can see from my post above:zeRo-liMit said:
And yes, the P3C-D is a good dual board that I also think deserves to be on the list.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
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- Cleveland OHIO
FROM EXPERIENCE:
The gigabyte GA-7DXPDW is said to have faulty USB and comes with a USB PCI card if bought brand new. I bought a used one for 100$, enabled usb in my bios, works perfectly. I spoke with some people at gigabyte about it, they said some systems can be unstable. There is a bug fix out there i beleive, or atleast the newest bios allows you to operate the USB.
An important note about this board...You have 4 IDE channels for raid. Channels 3 and 4 are your primary! i cannot stress this enough! I hooked up my drives to channles 1 and 2 and it literally took windows XP 8 minutes to boot.
This board you are limited on PCI slots, since those other slots are PCI-X (or its just 66mhz bus?) And are not 32bit compatable. REAL PAIN in the arse!
This board offers FSB OC'ing. Only increments of 1 from 100/133 to 110/140 ...im not sure havent been in the bios lately.
Minimum wattage THEOREDICALLY is 350w, but right now im using a 400w PSU specially made for the K7 thunder (came with the board) and i beleive on the gigabyte site it states to not use anything below it.
This board IS FINIKY about heat. Sometimes when it gets too hot the sound cuts out. You can either restart it, which will only delay the cut out again, or just walk away for a few minutes....or like any cooling freak add fans!
The Tyan Tiger s24600 is ATHLON ONLY. I saw K7 thunder under your intel list....i dont recall an intel version. Id be surprised if there was, and id stand corrected. It also does not require the 4pin connector from a PSU. This one the minimum is 350watts.
Ive got one of these just lying under my bed in the gigabyte box. It BSOD'd every 3 minutes. Found out there was dust in CPU0 when i removed it....wasnt sure that coulda caused my BSOD's, since i NEEDED my server up, didnt have time to check. SO if thats possible let me know ill test it onea these days...
That board took the SMP into considaration when booting. It booted incredibly fast. That one has PCI-64bit slots which are backwards compatable
OPINION: if you can set up dual PSU's, DO IT! Especially if your going to do RAID or SCSI
Something to add for the uses: FOLDING!
So when are you going to add Opterons?
The gigabyte GA-7DXPDW is said to have faulty USB and comes with a USB PCI card if bought brand new. I bought a used one for 100$, enabled usb in my bios, works perfectly. I spoke with some people at gigabyte about it, they said some systems can be unstable. There is a bug fix out there i beleive, or atleast the newest bios allows you to operate the USB.
An important note about this board...You have 4 IDE channels for raid. Channels 3 and 4 are your primary! i cannot stress this enough! I hooked up my drives to channles 1 and 2 and it literally took windows XP 8 minutes to boot.
This board you are limited on PCI slots, since those other slots are PCI-X (or its just 66mhz bus?) And are not 32bit compatable. REAL PAIN in the arse!
This board offers FSB OC'ing. Only increments of 1 from 100/133 to 110/140 ...im not sure havent been in the bios lately.
Minimum wattage THEOREDICALLY is 350w, but right now im using a 400w PSU specially made for the K7 thunder (came with the board) and i beleive on the gigabyte site it states to not use anything below it.
This board IS FINIKY about heat. Sometimes when it gets too hot the sound cuts out. You can either restart it, which will only delay the cut out again, or just walk away for a few minutes....or like any cooling freak add fans!
The Tyan Tiger s24600 is ATHLON ONLY. I saw K7 thunder under your intel list....i dont recall an intel version. Id be surprised if there was, and id stand corrected. It also does not require the 4pin connector from a PSU. This one the minimum is 350watts.
Ive got one of these just lying under my bed in the gigabyte box. It BSOD'd every 3 minutes. Found out there was dust in CPU0 when i removed it....wasnt sure that coulda caused my BSOD's, since i NEEDED my server up, didnt have time to check. SO if thats possible let me know ill test it onea these days...
That board took the SMP into considaration when booting. It booted incredibly fast. That one has PCI-64bit slots which are backwards compatable
OPINION: if you can set up dual PSU's, DO IT! Especially if your going to do RAID or SCSI
Something to add for the uses: FOLDING!
So when are you going to add Opterons?
W2k/W2k3 - switch to SMP
1. nobody needs to reinstall windows to switch to SMP!!!!!
2. do not change from MPS to ACPI ore otherwise in the next steps
3. copy the right HAL and KERNEL file from dllcache to system32
4. modify the boot.ini - add the switch /HAL= and /Kernel= http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;170756
5. restart the system and PNP will do all the work for you
6. remove the switches from the boot.ini
thats all
1. nobody needs to reinstall windows to switch to SMP!!!!!
2. do not change from MPS to ACPI ore otherwise in the next steps
3. copy the right HAL and KERNEL file from dllcache to system32
4. modify the boot.ini - add the switch /HAL= and /Kernel= http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;170756
5. restart the system and PNP will do all the work for you
6. remove the switches from the boot.ini
thats all
Nice to see information from my Sticky in here ...Hmmmmm...
Any way you have a mis-statement
Do The Programs I Use Need to be Diffrent To Take Advantage Of SMP?
yes...they must be programmed to use the the 2nd proc.otherwise you will still only be on 1 proc.
Your not correct on this.The O/S is desiged like a Y and no matter the apps thread count the O/S will send a thread to what ever processor is ready to process it.
(Define Y) Look at the letter the straight branches off to 2 paths,The O/S will send a thread to what ever processor on those 2 paths that is able to processos the thread.On a dual threaded app the code for any task is broken in half and each half goes to 1 processor.Thats the easiest way to explain it and hopefully allow people to visualize what happens in a dual system.
People try to debate this, but in fact if you start any single threaded app or game you will seee both processors in the task manager getting a pretty equil load of the processing tasks..
Any way you have a mis-statement
Do The Programs I Use Need to be Diffrent To Take Advantage Of SMP?
yes...they must be programmed to use the the 2nd proc.otherwise you will still only be on 1 proc.
Your not correct on this.The O/S is desiged like a Y and no matter the apps thread count the O/S will send a thread to what ever processor is ready to process it.
(Define Y) Look at the letter the straight branches off to 2 paths,The O/S will send a thread to what ever processor on those 2 paths that is able to processos the thread.On a dual threaded app the code for any task is broken in half and each half goes to 1 processor.Thats the easiest way to explain it and hopefully allow people to visualize what happens in a dual system.
People try to debate this, but in fact if you start any single threaded app or game you will seee both processors in the task manager getting a pretty equil load of the processing tasks..
