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AMD rat jumps ship...first INTEL board?

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hanssvetty

Registered
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Location
seattle
It seems that AMD is going down for the count. I'm sad about it, having only used AMD since I started in 1999 with a k6-2, yet I am reluctant to buy anymore XP chips, as my recent overclock results with an MSI K7t and XP1700 chip have been pretty weak.

I would guess that I have the resources to buy my way roughly two thirds of the way to really good preformance. I want fast, but not fastest for budget reasons.

I will use the new system for SP games, photoshop, email, general use. I am on a dialup modem.

Maybe raid is worth having. Here are some components I have and would like to use:



WD 80 gig 7200 HD with 8mg cache (built 3 weeks ago, could get another)

Arbitron G4 4200 video card

Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card

Fong-Kai FK-320 case with two fans. (unhooked the others for reasons of domestic peace)

HP deskjet 840c printer (on a serial port)

HP photosmart 100 printer (USB1)

2 Voodoo2 12mg video cards, SLI (for playing Red Baron, a glide game)

Microsoft Precision Pro joystick (serial)



I would like to get a really good solid INTEL board for o/c, and one loaded with options, more than 2 IDE ports, (raid?) something that will be fairly good even a year from now. Something that supports fast memory, etc. (I've only ever used SD ram, and am keen to try some really fast memory of some type. What is the sweet spot, DDR 2700?

I'm willing to short myself a bit on processor speed with the plan to upgrade later. (budget again)

I'd like to water cool, if I can get a simple kit that I could afford. I suspect that it might take more skill and money than I have got now though. Still, fan noise is a real issue over here.

So if you aren't disgusted with my lack of proper research, can I ask for your more expert opinion on which Intel board/processor might be a nice choice for my gaming and other needs?

With thanks,

hans




:)
 

BaldHeadedDork

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Hey Hans, thanks for asking and welcome to the forums! We have a good mix of AMD and Intel people around here, so make yourself at home.

You didn't mention what your budget was so I'm going to recommend three processors. At the bottom of the price scale, I'm going to pick the new Celeron 2.0 GHz. This is built on the Pentium 4 core and uses the new 0.13mu wafer. They've just come out, but the early tests say this chip will overclock like a mother. Sharky Extreme got theirs to three gig on stock voltage. For $95 at Newegg, this is one of the best proc deals ever.

Moving up is the P4 2.26. This is one of the favorite overclocking P4 chips, with a lot of users able to achieve three gig on air cooling with an aftermarket HSF. Because the P4 has a larger onboard cache, it performs much better when running games even if the Celeron is set at a higher clock speed. So if you want the best game performance you might want to spend $192 for the 2.26 instead of getting the Celeron.

At the high end, a lot of people are getting 3.2-3.4GHz from the new P4 2.66. This is one of the new C1 stepping P4's you'll hear a lot about. Good chip but at $315 the price is a little steep, IMHO.

Onto the board. I'm recommending boards with the Intel 845PE chipset. This is a very overclockable and stable chipset, and most boards using it also have a ton of onboard features. I'd recommend any PE boards from Asus, Abit or Gigabyte.

The memory of choice for P4's is Corsair XMS3200. It has the best reputation for overclocking and is only a few dollars more than the 2700.

Good luck!


BHD
 
Last edited:
OP
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hanssvetty

Registered
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Location
seattle
BHD,

That was very interesting and informative, in fact I am very greatful for your kind reply.

I'm going to print your advice out and keep it in my wallet while shopping and pricing components.

I feel inclined to try the P4 2.26 you suggested because of cache for gaming. The Celeron is very tempting as well though. ($)

Should I inspect the processor markings for any particular designation before purchasing? My xp1700 was an AGOYA designation, said to be suitable for overclocking.

If anyone is inclined to recommend a particular water cooling system for this processor, I would like to explore this cooling approach also.

Thanks again BHD,

hans :)
 

BaldHeadedDork

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
I can't really comment about the performance of chips from one fab vs. another. I've heard a couple of people saying that the chips from Malaysia overclock somewhat better than those from Costa Rica. But I haven't heard from enough people to convince me this is a reliable trend.

There are people who watercool their P4 rigs. But it doesn't open up the additional headroom you get by liquid cooling an Athlon rig. You might pick up another 200-300 MHz on a three gig clock speed, but that'll be about it.

This is because voltage is the limiting factor when overclocking a P4. Northwood's do not like high voltage regardless of what the core temperature is. Running more than 1.7v is really playing Russian roulette with your proc, and most guys don't go higher than 1.65 for sustained operation. This means you can't fully exploit the cooler core temperatures available in a liquid cooling or phase change setup.


BHD
 
OP
H

hanssvetty

Registered
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Location
seattle
More good thing to know. Thanks.

I would be able to avoid fan noise at least; that's the main problem around here. I hope the pump motors for liquid cooling are quiet.

I have never before heard of a phase change setup. I'll have to look into that.

You seem to know quite a lot about the intel processors and boards. I will make a point of getting a motherboard with the Intel 845PE chipset.

Is raid worthwhile as well?

Best Regards,

hans
 
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H

hanssvetty

Registered
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Location
seattle
Thanks Hawk!

Well, heres what I mean: I'm sad because of what I've been reading on the web.It's pretty bleak.

In the last few months AMD stock has lost two thirds of its value. They had to annouce that third quarter revenues would be down $100 million dollars more in the hole than recent projections. They had to do the same in the second quarter as well.

Having lost so much value so fast, they will have a hard time getting access to capital for R&D and loans to cover budget shorfalls. They have a lot of expenses, so even with sales of $500 million projected for the third quarter, they will still be losing $300 million dollars, or about $100 million dollars a month at the current burn rate.

Thier market share is now something like a paltry 11%.

AMD's debt now is around $2.3 billion dollars. If they are losing money every quarter, and they can no longer get loans, how long can it be before the roof caves in?

Today's pricewatch lists the XP 2700 @ 2.13 gig for $355. Intel will sell a 3 gig chip this holiday season. The XP 2400 and 2600 may be too slow and too late.

Will the clawhammer come out and sell like hotcakes, saving the company?

I sure hope it does, but I don't think it will, and I want more speed now, not in the second quarter of 2003 when clawhammer might be generally available.

I miss 3dfx too. If the Voodoo 5 had been just 14% faster...who knows?

hans

:(
 

failsaf3

Registered
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
Location
NoCal
nice!

In the last few months AMD stock has lost two thirds of its value. They had to annouce that third quarter revenues would be down $100 million dollars more in the hole than recent projections. They had to do the same in the second quarter as well.

Having lost so much value so fast, they will have a hard time getting access to capital for R&D and loans to cover budget shorfalls. They have a lot of expenses, so even with sales of $500 million projected for the third quarter, they will still be losing $300 million dollars, or about $100 million dollars a month at the current burn rate.

Thier market share is now something like a paltry 11%.

AMD's debt now is around $2.3 billion dollars. If they are losing money every quarter, and they can no longer get loans, how long can it be before the roof caves in?

Today's pricewatch lists the XP 2700 @ 2.13 gig for $355. Intel will sell a 3 gig chip this holiday season. The XP 2400 and 2600 may be too slow and too late.

Will the clawhammer come out and sell like hotcakes, saving the company?

I sure hope it does, but I don't think it will, and I want more speed now, not in the second quarter of 2003 when clawhammer might be generally available.

That rocked. Great explaination hans
:D
 

skahtul

Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Location
SLC
WEll my Duron is only 2 weeks old, I cooked it this last weekend unlocking it. It was only about 45 bucks, but if I step up to the XP (which I have several of) and keep cooking them (which I have failed to do yet), lets see, $120 in processors every two weeks for a few months, nope not enough to single handidly keep AMD afloat, everyone needs a goal.