Anybody feel up for a debate?

[Diggrr]

Thanks guys.

@IMOG, that's the article that got me to build a bong. I solved the water spray problem by making it 5' high, and my wye pipe was further off the ground to allow a 3 gallon reserve.
Thanks for the Mr. Peabody's way-back machine!

 

[I.M.O.G.]

It was guys like you and articles/projects like that which got me hooked here before I ever registered. You are an OG OCFer.

 

[Automata]

It was guys like you and articles like that which got me hooked here before I ever registered. You are an OG OCFer.

This is the same for me, as well. I remember reading about that build and was in absolute amazement.

 

[Modz 4 Higher]

That's awesome Diggr. Do it again but better this time.(if that's even possible. Lol)

 

[Diggrr]

{blush}
Well I get my car sold this week or next, there's a new computer/case/watercooling project in my noggin.

Thanks for the Super System can be shared with the X .Mrs....if it weren't for her, I wouldn't have been spending so much time out in the workshop!

 

[DigitalMonkey]

Should we look into carbon nanotubes for cooling? I know the research is still in its early stages, but I think this will be the next best thing for cooling.

 

[Diggrr]

You mean as a TIM material?

I seem to remember a white-paper once a while back about using oil lamp soot as a TIM. It completely spanked anything available at the time...like several times over. Always wanted to try that.

 

[johan851]

I recall toothpaste doing fairly well also.

 

[m0r7if3r]

If I wanted to go sub-ambient, I'd just go with a phase change unit.

This...so much of this. The most practical way to go sub-ambient 24/7 is a single stage phase cooler. On a side note, when'd you turn green? Was that recent, or am I being dumb?

I recall toothpaste doing fairly well also.

I saw a guy do a proof-of-concept with mayonnaise...it worked but only barely

 

[BachOn]

Innovation often comes from someone asking screwball questions and coming up with novel answers. And most innovators and inventors faced skeptics who said, "It's just not practical." And some of those skeptics were correct. But not all of them were.

Quick Ancient History Lesson: My first computer was a 4 Megahertz Radio Shack TRS-80 Model III. This was back when Jobs and Wozniack were selling their brand new Apple. This was at least 2 or 3 years before the first IBM desktop unit (called the Acorn) was even released. I bought my old Model III around 1980. My first 5.25 inch floppy disk drive for that sucker cost me a cool $700. The innovation and progress since that era has been incredible. Many of us now have Android devices with many times the computing power of the first ENIAC computer started crunching numbers way back in 1946 (just slightly before my time).

The use of water cooling for a computer, so I've read, was actually developed by IBM for one of the large mainframe computers. The unit produced so much heat that even multiple screaming blowers couldn't keep it cool enough to be practical. I believe this took place in the late 50's or early 60's. The corporate environment at IBM was very conservative - especially in that time. The guy who brought up the idea of water cooling must have faced a very dubious reaction. He must have been a slick-talking S.O.B. to convince that crowd to go along with it. But they did.

I see a lot of innovation going on right here on this site. And I think it is great. I also appreciate the fact that most of the experienced folks who frequent the site are willing to encourage nubes and that they do their best to try and be helpful. That's the kind of climate that will promote innovation.

I'm a retired teacher. And asking questions and encouraging people to discuss things is something that I enjoy doing. I agree with most of you that the two ideas I postulated surely look impractical right now. Frankly, I hoped some might offer one or two of their own innovative ideas. I smiled when I read about Diggrr drilling holes in the floor for a reservoir in the basement. It reflects that WHY? vs.WHY NOT? attitude.

Personally, I think a little BS discussion like this every once in a great while is fun, and maybe potentially useful. Thanks to those who paid their 2 cents.

Now, is a 140mm radiator that much better than a 120mm rad?

Bach On

 

[m0r7if3r]

Now, is a 140mm radiator that much better than a 120mm rad?

I've got this! It depends how you mean, if you mean does it offer better maximum performance, then yes, I'd say 140mm rads are better, that extra 400mm^2 of space is pretty significant and testing confirms this. The issue with 140mm rads is that the fan selection for them is attrocious, especially in comparison to what is available for 120mm radiators. There are no thick 140mm fans, and almost every 140mm fan out there runs on a motor that was (presumably) designed for a 120mm fan, which means 1 major thing: lack of static pressure. Because of this, the gap between 140mm and 120mm rads is actually not as large as it should be. A good compromise on this is getting a 140mm to 120mm adapter and putting a 120mm fan on your 140mm rad. The downside to this is that you'll not be seeing the performance you would with a 140mm fan, were there fans that were sensibly designed in that size.

 

[manu2b]

Quick Ancient History Lesson: My first computer was a 4 Megahertz Radio Shack TRS-80 Model III. This was back when Jobs and Wozniack were selling their brand new Apple. This was at least 2 or 3 years before the first IBM desktop unit (called the Acorn) was even released. I bought my old Model III around 1980.

Bloody hell!
Me also, the TRS-80 MC-10, know in France as Alice, it was back in 1981... 4KB ram, and the Ram Expansion of 16KB...

EDIT: this one had a 1.77MHz cpu...

 

[BachOn]

Manu,

I don't think they sold the Alice here in the US.

My first calculator was a device about the size of a one-inch thick paperback book. It did four functions + percentages. $125. My brother had a Hewlett-Packard Scientific Calculator about the same time that cost him around $475. I don't remember the date. Now you can get similar devices at a fraction of the size and cost.

One of my old TRS-80 friends with much deeper pockets than mine bought his first hard disk drive. It had 10 Megabytes of storage. I believe he paid $1800 for it. It took all night long to format that sucker. Obviously, most computer stuff has gotten better and the cost has dropped at the same time. It's the results of innovation in technology coupled with economy of scale due to mass production.

Well, I guess that's more than enough ancient history. ;-)

BO

 

[manu2b]

BAch, look at the link, known in the us as TRS-80 MC-10 (Tandy Corporation):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_MC-10

Well, ancient history, but nice memories!

 

[Diggrr]

A good compromise on this is getting a 140mm to 120mm adapter and putting a 120mm fan on your 140mm rad.

I use fans that are 1500 or less RPM, and shrouds that are exactly 27.5mm deep, with the fan exhausting from the rad.
This seems most efficient in testing (Martin or Skinnee, can't remember which tested shrouds), and I'd bet it would be the same or similar with 140mm rads.

I hand make my shrouds of fiberglass, because that specific dimension is hard to come by...

**Well scratch that. It seams Martin updated the original testing with a new bench, and found it to be radiator specific whether shrouds help or not.
In any event, I'll still use the setup the same way. It quiets them down and that's what counts for me, as I am always over-radded (don't bring a knife to a gun-fight).

 

[QBobWatson]

I've got this! It depends how you mean, if you mean does it offer better maximum performance, then yes, I'd say 140mm rads are better, that extra 400mm^2 of space is pretty significant and testing confirms this. The issue with 140mm rads is that the fan selection for them is attrocious, especially in comparison to what is available for 120mm radiators. There are no thick 140mm fans, and almost every 140mm fan out there runs on a motor that was (presumably) designed for a 120mm fan, which means 1 major thing: lack of static pressure. Because of this, the gap between 140mm and 120mm rads is actually not as large as it should be. A good compromise on this is getting a 140mm to 120mm adapter and putting a 120mm fan on your 120mm rad. The downside to this is that you'll not be seeing the performance you would with a 140mm fan, were there fans that were sensibly designed in that size.

I agree that the selection is not very good, but that doesn't mean there aren't good 140mm fan models. I've been quite happy with the performance of theTY-140, which was designed specifically for a Thermalright 140mm CPU air cooler, I believe. As for shrouds, I mounted all nine of mine with 2-sided mounting tape and it works great.

 

[I.M.O.G.]

I recall toothpaste doing fairly well also.

Dansdata.com had tested that. It worked about the same for bench testing, which is still useful to consider - it should remind us that the important part of a TIM is resilience and longevity. You want a TIM that not only gives you good temps, but also stands the test of time... Most testing doesn't have any longevity component.

 

[Diggrr]

That's exactly why I used the Type 44 (silicone free white stuff) for years and years. Even after breaking a system apart for the parts bin, that TIM was in the same state I applied it in years before. None of that "reapply in 6 months" business.
Might start using it again too, my Arctic Silver has dried so much it won't squeeze out of the syringe anymore. And yes, the cap was on tight.

 

[WarDad]

That's AWESOME Diggrr

 

[joshhua5]

I was thinking about it, and I could see it being possible to install a mini air conditioning unit into 3x 5.25" bays which would inject cold air straight into the case, decreasing the ambient temps from the inside, just an idea.

After a bit of looking around I found these:
http://www.sytrin.com/3b-I-1.html
http://www.sytrin.com/3b-I-2.html