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Anyone know about the Jonsbo TR03?

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OP
On_Point

On_Point

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Nov 26, 2013
Are DDR5 boards backwards compatible? Can you use DDR4 with them?
 

EarthDog

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Are DDR5 boards backwards compatible? Can you use DDR4 with them?
No.

Though you can use ddr4 with z690 and the 12 series cpus....as you know/oc.uk shows. Apparently they aren't offering ddr5 boards?? Perhaps because ddr5 still isn't available in abundance.
 
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OP
On_Point

On_Point

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Nov 26, 2013
No.

Though you can use ddr4 with z690 and the 12 series cpus....as you know/oc.uk shows. Apparently they aren't offering ddr5 boards?? Perhaps because ddr5 still isn't available in abundance.
Dude....if you check that link and click "configure" you can see all the different options available for that build. The website does have DDR5 boards....just not for that build.
I think you confused yourself...that board CAN do ddr4, but it CAN'T do DDR5. There is a DDR5 version of that mobo, but it's not in the list of available mobos for that specific custom build.
Check out the link and you can see what is available and what is not.

EDIT:
Every time I build a PC the cost is going up. Mainly due to scalpers at the moment. But I don't see an end to that unless retailers come down on them.
And the joke is now it's no longer cheaper to "build your own pc" It's actually cheaper to get a pre-built system where these companies have bought the components in bulk for specific builds.
At the end of this year, there will be new tech....but will I be able to afford it? NOPE
I can never afford a PC with the latest tech. It will always be a year or two behind :cry:

:comp:
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Dude....if you check that link and click "configure" you can see all the different options available for that build. The website does have DDR5 boards....just not for that build.
I think you confused yourself...that board CAN do ddr4, but it CAN'T do DDR5. There is a DDR5 version of that mobo, but it's not in the list of available mobos for that specific custom build.
Check out the link and you can see what is available and what is not.
I checked the link. I didn't deep dive into it/configure...just clicked on 'more' for motherboards and they were all DD4 'for that build'. :)

RE: DDR5.. I'm not confused. I wasn't referring to your board specifically, but Z690 in general. Z690 platform handles both DDR4 and DDR5, just not on the same board (as in DDR4 and DDR5 do not fit in the same slots). That said, there are DDR4 and DDR5 versions of some boards as you know. So a [insert brand here] Z690 xxx DDR4 and Z690 xxx DDR5. ;)

And the joke is now it's no longer cheaper to "build your own pc" It's actually cheaper to get a pre-built system where these companies have bought the components in bulk for specific builds.
Yeah, for the most part, video card prices are what's done that. Prices have come down quite a bit from the peak, that's for sure.
 
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OP
On_Point

On_Point

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I checked the link. I didn't deep dive into it/configure...just clicked on 'more' for motherboards and they were all DD4 'for that build'. :)

RE: DDR5.. I'm not confused. I wasn't referring to your board specifically, but Z690 in general. Z690 platform handles both DDR4 and DDR5, just not on the same board (as in DDR4 and DDR5 do not fit in the same slots). That said, there are DDR4 and DDR5 versions of some boards as you know. So a [insert brand here] Z690 xxx DDR4 and Z690 xxx DDR5. ;)


Yeah, for the most part, video card prices are what's done that. Prices have come down quite a bit from the peak, that's for sure.
You know....if I do go with this system, I think I am going to go with the Phanteks Enthoo 719 instead. It looks pretty good, and the design is just more practical.
I don't want to compromise cooling for looks. But I hate knowing this generation of CPUs will be outdated by the end of the year...and the RTX40 series will probably be out :cry:

I also checked out how much it would cost if I buy the parts for a DDR5 system because overclockers don't seem to have any DDR5 builds. And it seems it will not be that much more like you said.
I have basically added all the components for a DDR5 build except for the case, and it has come to almost the same as that custom build.
But if I get the Enthoo 719 that's another £200 :confused:

Here are links to the mobo and ddr5 I picked....the frequency look great a huge bump from my ddr3...but the CAS...:eek:
What do you think about using white ram sticks on a black mobo? Will it look horrible... lol
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Don't base on popular website comparisons for DDR4 vs DDR5. Most of them are just pathetic, written by clueless people who want to prove that DDR5 is bad to make noise on youtube or whatever. It has nothing to do with real comparison on higher series components. In all early comparisons are DDR5-4800 or 5200 kits at CL40 or something near. No one who buys higher series motherboards, buys the cheapest DDR5, especially that their price is not so much lower. If you compare DDR5 6000/6200 at CL36 or less then it's already better and from this point, you can go up to 6400+ CL32.
Also, most comparisons include 2x8GB DDR4 kits at 3600 CL14 or 4000 CL14/16 Gear1 (most motherboards can't run 4000 Gear1) vs basic DDR5. All popular DDR5 are in 32GB kits so to match DDR5-5600 performance, you need 32GB 4000+ kit. Good luck finding anything cheap at tight timings. It's either still expensive Samsung B or Hynix/Micron at CL18/20.
Typical DDR4 kit at 3600/4000 XMP CL14/16 has ~55ns latency in AIDA64 and 55GB/s bandwidth (+/- 5GB/s depending on platform). Typical DDR5-6200 CL36 kit has ~60ns latency but 90GB/s+ bandwidth. This is a different generation and architecture. You can't compare only CL in RAM for ages, there are like 50+ additional timings that affect the performance even more and most of them are the same for DDR4 and DDR5.

However, buying DDR5 for the performance gain is not the best idea when you already have DDR4. The performance gain in games will be maybe 1-3% (more if you manually overclock it but for that you need good motherboard). In other programs it looks better. DDR5 is a good option if you are already spending a lot and don't want to buy "old" technology.

Don't buy ASUS Hero. They had design flaw and you never know what you get as they were not selling well, so may collect dust in some stores. The same ASUS Apex can be after the return as they had faulty RAM slots and for example Amazon had a lot of returns for this model. (this has nothing to do with my current ASUS RMA :) ) MSI seems solid and cheaper.
From RAM, check ADATA as their prices are typically lower. There are sometimes promos for other brands too and generally DDR5-6200 will be about the same as DDR5-6400 but much cheaper.
 
OP
On_Point

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Don't base on popular website comparisons for DDR4 vs DDR5. Most of them are just pathetic, written by clueless people who want to prove that DDR5 is bad to make noise on youtube or whatever. It has nothing to do with real comparison on higher series components. In all early comparisons are DDR5-4800 or 5200 kits at CL40 or something near. No one who buys higher series motherboards, buys the cheapest DDR5, especially that their price is not so much lower. If you compare DDR5 6000/6200 at CL36 or less then it's already better and from this point, you can go up to 6400+ CL32.
Also, most comparisons include 2x8GB DDR4 kits at 3600 CL14 or 4000 CL14/16 Gear1 (most motherboards can't run 4000 Gear1) vs basic DDR5. All popular DDR5 are in 32GB kits so to match DDR5-5600 performance, you need 32GB 4000+ kit. Good luck finding anything cheap at tight timings. It's either still expensive Samsung B or Hynix/Micron at CL18/20.
Typical DDR4 kit at 3600/4000 XMP CL14/16 has ~55ns latency in AIDA64 and 55GB/s bandwidth (+/- 5GB/s depending on platform). Typical DDR5-6200 CL36 kit has ~60ns latency but 90GB/s+ bandwidth. This is a different generation and architecture. You can't compare only CL in RAM for ages, there are like 50+ additional timings that affect the performance even more and most of them are the same for DDR4 and DDR5.

However, buying DDR5 for the performance gain is not the best idea when you already have DDR4. The performance gain in games will be maybe 1-3% (more if you manually overclock it but for that you need good motherboard). In other programs it looks better. DDR5 is a good option if you are already spending a lot and don't want to buy "old" technology.

Don't buy ASUS Hero. They had design flaw and you never know what you get as they were not selling well, so may collect dust in some stores. The same ASUS Apex can be after the return as they had faulty RAM slots and for example Amazon had a lot of returns for this model. (this has nothing to do with my current ASUS RMA :) ) MSI seems solid and cheaper.
From RAM, check ADATA as their prices are typically lower. There are sometimes promos for other brands too and generally DDR5-6200 will be about the same as DDR5-6400 but much cheaper.
Did you look at the components I went with? What I said doesn't apply to people who have enough money to buy the best mobos and best ddr5 on the market.
So I think saying ddr4 gives you way more for your money than ddr5 currently is fair because the vast majority of people can't afford the best components :rolleyes::cry:

The one in my link is also CL40....this is why I was saying it will perform worse than good ddr4 "in my situation" You can see what I picked in my link.
My current build is ddr3 btw....you can see that in my signature. And I didn't select Asus Hero....you can see the link for the mobo I picked.
I honestly don't know how Asus gets away with charging a premium for the exact same specs as other brands...

I was going to get a 3080ti and even that makes me angry. I mean over $1000 for a graphics card. And I went with some unknown brand because they were like £300 cheaper than Asus or Gigabyte.
Can you check this link and tell me if it's a good brand or if I should avoid this...

:comp:
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
CL40 doesn't mean it's slow. DDR5 is scaling much better with frequency so you get like 10ns drop only going from 5200 to 6000 at CL40. You get the next 10-15ns after tweaking or overclocking RAM up to 6800 (not many motherboards can do that). Also as I said, there is no "good" DDR4 out of the box that will outperform DDR5-6000+. It requires specific conditions to perform "good" like 4000, low timings, and Gear 1 mode. It doesn't mean that it's really worth paying much more for DDR5 but motherboards don't cost much more and good DDR4 are also not cheap. You decide what you want as it really won't change much in games, but I assume you buy this PC for longer. If you spend £2k for the graphics card, CPU, motherboard, and RAM, then £100 is no real difference. I understand that £100 here and there and in total can be a difference. I guess there is no bad decision here.

The prices are ridiculous right now, but I don't think it will be better anytime soon. For gaming only, XBOX seems like a better idea looking at prices and what you actually get, but not all games are good for gamepads and not all are available for consoles.
I wouldn't invest £1k+ in RTX3000 right now unless you really need a new PC. RTX4000 and new Radeons will be released in ~3-4 months. No one knows what about availability and prices, but will be for sure better.

Inno3D is let's say low-end brand, the same as Palit, Gainward, and Zotac. Prices are going down probably because barely anyone buys it. The card will work fine but hard to say if the cooler is good quality and won't make noise under load. When you spend so much for the graphics card then get something from a respected brand like ASUS or MSI. Maybe other stores will have better promos as OCUK isn't the cheapest. It's a pretty good store actually and they make no problems with replacements or RMA in general. On the other hand, I can't find any other store with significantly better prices for the RTX3080Ti.
 
OP
On_Point

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For gaming only, XBOX seems like a better idea looking at prices and what you actually get, but not all games are good for gamepads and not all are available for consoles.
XBOX? :ROFLMAO: Prices are not good when you consider you can just pirate so many more games on the PC. The gamepads vs mouse & keyboard thing ended years ago when consoles came out with USB ports lol
You can use gamepad or mouse & keyboards on consoles and PC .

I wouldn't invest £1k+ in RTX3000 right now unless you really need a new PC. RTX4000 and new Radeons will be released in ~3-4 months. No one knows what about availability and prices, but will be for sure better.
Yea...well what are the chances RTX4000s will be less than 2K? And that would probably be MRP. And I haven't seen or heard anything from retailers to indicate scalpers won't just use bots to buy up the stock just the past few generations making the cards 2.5K at least lol
Inno3D is let's say low-end brand, the same as Palit, Gainward, and Zotac. Prices are going down probably because barely anyone buys it. The card will work fine but hard to say if the cooler is good quality and won't make noise under load.
Ok I watched a video of someone testing a few 3080Tis and the cooler seems to perform worse and is louder. So I was looking at some MSi seeing as they seem to have the best prices from the major brands.
Do you know the difference between GEFORCE RTX 3080 TI VENTUS 3X 12G OC, and the GeForce RTX™ 3080 Ti GAMING X TRIO 12G?
Both are MSI and seem to have the same specs....but the is like £100 more.
 

EarthDog

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XBOX? :ROFLMAO: Prices are not good when you consider you can just pirate so many more games on the PC. The gamepads vs mouse & keyboard thing ended years ago when consoles came out with USB ports lol
You can use gamepad or mouse & keyboards on consoles and PC .
FTR, it's against the rules here to discuss pirating/wares etc. Please see the forum rules. How you procure your games (being shady) isn't our business.

His point was that a console is a great experience these days if you're only gaming. It'll cost you an arm and a leg to get 4K with AA at 60 FPS on a PC (in other words, $500 is a great deal and you can spend the other $1000 on buying games legitimately. :p

Yea...well what are the chances RTX4000s will be less than 2K? And that would probably be MRP. And I haven't seen or heard anything from retailers to indicate scalpers won't just use bots to buy up the stock just the past few generations making the cards 2.5K at least lol
There will be models under 2K... just like there are now and what MSRP was upon release. Most places have put some form of bot management in, but nothing is perfect. It is what it is. Either you're trying to buy a GPU in today's market or you're not.

Do you know the difference between GEFORCE RTX 3080 TI VENTUS 3X 12G OC, and the GeForce RTX™ 3080 Ti GAMING X TRIO 12G?
Both are MSI and seem to have the same specs....but the is like £100 more.
I'd have to google and look it up just the same, bud. Look up some reviews and specifications... look at the power delivery... cooling prowess etc. At a high level, the Gaming X Trio is the higher-end card in the product stack. If they are not reviewed directly, look at other models Ventus and Trio models that sport the same coolers to see how they perform. That said, these all tend to perform within a few C of each other and decibels in the first place so....
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Yes, XBOX + mixed Pass service with access for 17 months to everything, cost me ~£470. The problem is not the hardware but that most games are a total waste of time. Each year games look worse and I have a hard time finding anything good to play. Most PC and XBOX games are the same with some exceptions. So yes, I can download games on torrents or whatever... but there is nothing good to download. Actually, I play more games on Nintendo Switch than on PC and on PC I only play Black Desert Online which can run on something quite average.
Anyway £470 is hard to beat when you spend over £2k for a gaming PC. When you spend so much then you really have to love some games and spend a lot of time playing them with high display details. If it's only from time to time or "everything is meh" like for me then really can live with something much cheaper or move to a console.

MSI Ventus has a pretty average cooler. The Trio seems better. ASUS TUF and Strix, EVGA cards, and higher Gigabyte have great coolers.
 
OP
On_Point

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Anyway £470 is hard to beat when you spend over £2k for a gaming PC
I have to disagree here. Consoles force you into a subscription model just for the privilege of playing your games online. And the Mixed pass is also another subscription. By the end of the console's life cycle, you would have spent way over 2K on that console. The PC is just a single payment, console is spread over many years.

I find consoles is very limiting in today's market when so many console games actually come out on PC because consoles are basically PCs now. Even God of War which I' playing through now has always been a Playstation exclusive. The last Nintendo I owned was a N64 lol I personally don't play kid-friendly games these days. I would at someone's house, but I would never play like Mario Cart or something on my own. Only reason I would get a Nintendo is for Zelda and perhaps Metroid lol
Don't any of you have an old 3080Ti just lying around? :rolleyes::LOL:
 

EarthDog

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I have to disagree here.
You've disagreed with a lot of what we have to say in this long build thread... are you asking questions and getting our opinions or looking to tell us we're wrong in our responses? :p

Consoles force you into a subscription model just for the privilege of playing your games online.
Yes, you pay for a service for online access, indeed. You can also, optionally, pay for another service that gives you access to dozens of games every month. It's how they work these days. Sadly, the 90s and days of disks/cartridges are long gone. :(

The PC is just a single payment, console is spread over many years.
Well, for the overwhelming majority who actually pay for new titles, you'll spend for new games throughout the life of your PC AND console.... be it a subscription service that gives you access to a shedload of games, or through buying them and downloading. But really, we're here to help you with your build in this thread, not discuss the merits/demerits of consoles (we can do that in another thread if you want!). It was just a suggestion. :)
 
OP
On_Point

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It'll cost you an arm and a leg to get 4K with AA at 60 FPS on a PC (in other words, $500 is a great deal and you can spend the other $1000 on buying games legitimately.
I didn't know consoled can do 4K at 60FPS. Either way, I don't have a 4K TV so that's not even a consern lol
And as I mentioned to Woolmack, consoles make you pay a subscription to go online. So at the end of the console's life you would have spent the same or more on that console as you would have done on gaming pc.

This has been the case ever since subscription models came out. Not to mention the cost of the "complete version" of a game now costs close to $100 if not more. So 1K would get me like 10 games.
Not to mention many publishers just trick people with fake footage, giving out "review copies" that do not reflect the retail version and adding in-game monetization to more and more games.
And it's almost become a norm for games to release based on shareholder deadlines as suppose to when the game is actually finished and is polished.
I really don't feel bad about ripping off companies who are ripping everyone off big time "within the law"
There will be models under 2K... just like there are now and what MSRP was upon release
There are models under 2K NOW...after a year since these cards released lol
Back then thanks to scalpers it literally was 2K or more for 3080.
That said, these all tend to perform within a few C of each other and decibels in the first place so
I was initially going to go with this because it was the cheapest, but I saw a video where it was getting like 10 Celsius more than other cards under load.
 

EarthDog

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...you're behind in replies (and again trying to bunk what we said)... I've already responded to most of those things. ;)

I really don't feel bad about ripping off companies who are ripping everyone off big time "within the law"
That's your take... and respectfully, disagree with that attitude. You're doing it 'outside the law'. Keep it to yourself, capisci? :)
 
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OP
On_Point

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Well, for the overwhelming majority who actually pay for new titles, you'll spend for new games throughout the life of your PC AND console.... be it a subscription service that gives you access to a shedload of games, or through buying them and downloading. But really, we're here to help you with your build in this thread, not discuss the merits/demerits of consoles (we can do that in another thread if you want!). It was just a suggestion. :)

Yea fair enough, I was just pointing out even without the game the additional subscription costs would end up costing you like 2K in the long run. So console seems to only be cheaper initially. And this, getting "dozens of games" every month is great marketing for a subscription service. But in reality, most people play 1 or 2 new games a month. Either way, you guys seem rich as F, which is why I asked if you had an old 3080Ti just lying around :ROFLMAO:
I'm here stressing over having to pay over £200 more for a 3080Ti because that Inno3D seems to have thermal issues at load.

With a MSI Gaming X Trio I'm up to £3250 and that's without a case! :cry:
The DDR4 build they have is just over £3000 with the case.
But the additional £400-£450 is probably worth going from DDR4 to DDR5...
Post magically merged:

That's your take... and respectfully, disagree with that attitude. You're doing it 'outside the law'. Keep it to yourself, capisci?
Fine I won't mention it. But I have zero issues with breaking certain laws when the laws are paid for by the same people that rip us all off lol
It should be against the law to clone games and charge people for digital items which will be outdated in the next years' version of the game.
 

EarthDog

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I was just pointing out even without the game the additional subscription costs would end up costing you like 2K in the long run.
Yes, you pointed that out multiple times... we understood you didn't agree the first time, I promise. But please understand the math...your build is over 3K, so that's at least $2500 to throw at a console for subscripts, games, etc. after buying it :p. I guess you won't buy any PC games after the $3000+ spend (that's right, you steal them, lol)? With some "a full version is $100" (most are $60 to get into a game) so if you're like most users who actually spend money on games. that's another$1200-$1400 (or ~$720 if $60 games) annually.......

But honestly, I don't want to beat this drum (in this thread) anymore... If you want to have a back and forth about consoles v PC, start a new thread. Here, let's focus on your hardware!
 
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OP
On_Point

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Yes, you pointed that out multiple times... we understood you didn't agree the first time, I promise. But please understand the math...your build is over 3K, so that's at least $2500 to throw at a console for subscripts, games, etc. after buying it :p. I guess you won't buy any PC games after the $3000+ spend (that's right, you steal them, lol)? With some "a full version is $100" (most are $60 to get into a game) so if you're like most users who actually spend money on games. that's another$1200-$1400 (or ~$720 if $60 games) annually.......

But honestly, I don't want to beat this drum (in this thread) anymore... If you want to have a back and forth about consoles v PC, start a new thread. Here, let's focus on your hardware!
Exactly how long do you think a console's life span is? Because it's usually at least 6 years lol $600(console) + $360 (6 month sub) = $960 So about $2000 left for games for 6 years which might be fine. My whole point was that it will be the same cost as buying a PC in the long run, if not more. So it comes down to how many games you play I suppose. I think after 6+ years, you would end up spending the same as a 3K gaming PC.

I don't know about this "get into a game" bs. I want to pay one single payment and get the "complete version" not be forced to spend $60 for base game and like another $60 to get all the content that was cut out to make the "rich boy edition" :ROFLMAO:
Elden Ring = $80 Farcry 6 = $120 Horizon Forbidden West = $125 Assasins Creed Valhalla = nearly $150 on release now $80
Also, what if you wanted this game? :p
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1935800/Absolute_Tennis_Manager/ (what was that about games being $60 :eek:) jkjk

I think it's morally wrong to make these different versions where people with more money have better things, even in the virtual world, which is why stealing it totally fine with me. I don't feel bad for stealing from a bigger thief.
I do buy games by small publishers and even publishers that actually give you your moneys worth. The Witcher games were a good example. I pirated it and ended up paying later because I realized they actually gave you what you pay for and didn't try to rip you off. Cyberpunk is a different story, I WISH stole that game. Big title games are NOT $60....at least not the complete version. Only the cut down "poor man's version" is that price now. So all your calculations are based on buying the cut-down versions of games.


On the actual topic of this thread...I checked out those two versions of MSI 3080Ti and the difference seems to be like 2FPS in most games.
Is that really worth £60 more? :unsure:

 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Again, for another thread...............on top of it, you keep repeating the same things over and over AND glossing over/missing the underlying point (including missing the point on the math/total cost of ownership...). Not a fun discussion when it's a one-way thing... :shrug: :-/


Is that really worth £60 more? :unsure:
Worth it is up to you, bud. As was said earlier, there are different coolers and different power delivery, etc. all a part of the extra expense. I thought we mentioned performance differences were meager already as well...
 
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OP
On_Point

On_Point

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Nov 26, 2013
Again, for another thread...............on top of it, you keep repeating the same things over and over AND glossing over/missing the underlying point (including missing the point on the math/total cost of ownership...). Not a fun discussion when it's a one-way thing... :shrug: :-/



Worth it is up to you, bud. As was said earlier, there are different coolers and different power delivery, etc. all a part of the extra expense. I thought we mentioned performance differences were meager already as well...
What is this magical "underlying point" because I did the maths for you to see. You got like $2000 till the end of the console's life to spend on games which is usually like 6 years or more.
This is probably fine for many people. But I also gave examples of several top games that cost near or more than $100 I was actually hoping for a response on the "Tennis Manager" game I linked :ROFLMAO:
I think games costing so much and bad practices from the publishers to give less and take more is simply down to shareholder greed.
They are under the delusion that you can keep increasing profit margins forever while still providing "value" to customers.
Yea...I wish that video also looked at fan speeds and temps. But honestly, going from that DDR4 custom build to picking my own parts for a DDR5 has increased the cost by like $500....not sure if I can even afford this :cry:

:comp: