Are modern IMCs better than in the past?

[mackerel]

In 2015 when I built my Skylake 6700k system, I bought a 4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws IV 3333 kit. It was borderline stable on that system, and behaved worse on every system I had until I got the 12100F. Haswell-E, Coffee Lake, Skylake-X, Zen through Zen 2, all wouldn't run it at full XMP speed. I heard theories secondary timings might have been optimised for X99, but I didn't have luck on that either.

Today I put two modules in my 12100F system. It passed 3 hours each of Aida64 memory test, and Prime95 blend. So I do wonder, is Alder Lake IMC "better" than before it? Is it the mobo, being a 2 ram slot model?

I'll have to see if Thaiphoon Burner still runs on Win11 and get some details on it. CPU-Z reports it uses Samsung chips but no more detail.

 

[EarthDog]

Combination of things, I'd imagine. A better IMC, better mobos with shorter traces, and perhaps a different topology than was used on your other boards, all play a role in what you're seeing. Why it didn't work in the other, more modern generations, except for this one, I couldn't pinpoint.

 

[mackerel]

I got the one of the cheapest H610 mobos, but possibly helping it is it only has two slots so you don't have to worry about topology as its directly connected. I wasn't even expecting XMP support when I got it!

The Skylake board it just about worked on was the Z170 Asus Hero model, so not the cheapest but by current standards it isn't that special. That's a typical 4 slot. I don't recall if I ever tried that ram in Z270 Apex which I had at one point, another 2 slot board. I think all other mobos I tried it on were 2DPC (X99 and X299 are 8 slot).

 

[MaddMutt]

Do you remember who made the chips? I have the RipJaws 3600 with Hynix E Die. To get it to run XMP on the x99, the R5E would set the BUS to 166 :-( I know that each new chipset z170 <-> z370 allowed better support for faster memory BUT hobbled the slower memory chips. If you are STILL benching those systems (x99) even the cheapest B dies will run Crazy Timings I have several benches (SuperPi 1m) with my R5E + 6850k using G.Skill 3200 14-14-14-34 (B die) set to 3200 @_10-10-10-16 1T
* I would also Like to send a Special Thanks to RAUF - For his Excellent ASUS x99 Memory OC GUIDE <- https://community.hwbot.org/topic/160360-guide-mem-oc-on-asus-rog-rampage-v-edition-10/

 

[Woomack]

It's a totally different CPU and IMC. 12th-gen CPUs run with DDR4 RAM up to 5000+, and the default MC/SA voltages do not limit them below 4000.
The default memory for these CPUs is 3200MT/s ... the same for up to 32GB per module.

 

[mackerel]

I do recall running ram on X99 wasn't fun due to the limited straps available. I don't have any X99 systems any more although I was looking at a cheap Chinese mobo because somewhere I still have a 14 core Xeon.

CPU supporting 3200 by itself doesn't necessarily help. I know these modules didn't like working with Zen 2 or Rocket Lake, both of which also support 3200 MT/s. I'm going out for the day shortly but will aim to get Thaiphoon Burner on that system later and see what chips it reports. I don't think it is B-die as I would have remembered that. My other B-die sticks I've sold on.

 

[Woomack]

B-die was only 8GB single/16GB dual rank. As I remember, back when X99 was on the market, then it was like Hynix or Samsung, no one was mentioning specific ICs as there was literally one option from both brands. It was the same with DDR5 for over a year, until Hynix and Micron refreshed ICs.
First Samsung/Hynix DDR4 ICs were in kits up to 3333-3400, but barely any mobo could make 3333+ quad-channel. Memory sticks could be pushed higher, but for the next 2 generations, there was no platform that could run it higher, and later, there were much better ICs.

Here is one older review. Almost the same results were on 3 other kits that I have on my list.

G.Skill Ripjaws 4 16GB DDR4-2800 CL16 1.2V Memory Kit Review - Overclockers

G.Skill brings high expectations with each new product release. Computer enthusiasts and overclockers connect the G.SKill brand to the highest quality memory. Today, we once again have a chance to find out if G.Skill is worth being called the best memory manufacturer. This memory review is based...

www.overclockers.com

 

[mackerel]

First Samsung/Hynix DDR4 ICs were in kits up to 3333-3400, but barely any mobo could make 3333+ quad-channel. Memory sticks could be pushed higher, but for the next 2 generations, there was no platform that could run it higher, and later, there were much better ICs.

Do you mean 2DPC dual channel? Quad channel would be limited to X99 at the time.

Thaiphoon Burner original site is down, found a copy elsewhere but it wont run. I suspect Alder Lake is too new for it. My old copy of Aida64 also doesn't pick anything up. CPU-Z is the only software that can read SPD and it says no more than Samsung chips used.

 

[Woomack]

Do you mean 2DPC dual channel? Quad channel would be limited to X99 at the time.

I mean 1DPC dual channel. At first with X99 and a bit later with Z170. For some things like specific benchmarks, 2 sticks even on X99 motherboards, but at a higher clock and tight timings were better as it was more about latency than bandwidth. Most X99 motherboards with early DDR4 could make 2800-3000. Some could make more. 3333+ was for a few top OC models like ASRock X99M Killer. At first, Z170 with DDR4 could go up to 3200-3466. It improved with better ICs and memory controllers sometime later .... to the point where ASRock Z170 OCF with modded BIOS could pass 4200 CL12 and beat some world records when Z390/490 motherboards were already around.

It doesn't matter what IC you have there. Ripjaws 4 were on 2-3 Samsung and Hynix ICs, and they were in everything from 2133 to 3333. The optimal back then was ~3000 CL14, and for benching, it was like 3000-3200 CL10-12 at high voltages.

Now you have newer everything with multiple improvements in BIOS, much better IMC, and some more, so it's no wonder it actually works better. The same is with DDR5. The first batch wasn't the best, but problems were more on the motherboard/BIOS side. I'm surprised they solved everything in a year and bumped the frequency from "good luck with 6400" to "it's stable at 8000". Soon, we will see much higher clocks and some ideas used before only in servers, like clock controllers directly in RAM.