I keep wondering if it is worth getting an ARL system to play with, but not at current pricing. Maybe once the non-K is out along with B chipset.
Happy for this thread to continue for Arrow Lake chat but if so the title could use changing (maybe just delete "leaks"). I don't have the ability to do it any more.
I guess it's better to keep it in one thread so we won't create multiple ones with the same info.
So far, I see many new BIOS settings. Probably most of them are useless, like 3 pages of sub-timings, but maybe someone is into that stuff. There are also new voltages and really, I got lost at first as naming of some is a bit weird. I also feel that most of the long list of voltages is pointless as I doubt that even extreme overclockers touch some of them.
However, I feel like it's a step forward for Intel. There are some new ideas, better efficiency, and everything feels well-designed. Motherboards just after release don't have stability issues and support higher RAM than you can buy in stores. It's a surprise, as every new generation seems like 3-4 months of end-user beta tests and waiting for a properly working BIOS. I only count on an improved performance with some future updates, as it feels like something is holding back these CPUs. Maybe I'm wrong, but seeing 80°C max and 180W on a 250W TDP CPU is weird. It's like there is still a lot of headroom they can't use.
You have a 265k right? That's 125W TDP, 250W max turbo power. What limits are set when you test? From the leaks there were supposed to be baseline (125/177W) and performance (125/250W) profiles. Outside Raptor Lake maybe, historically few loads would take an Intel CPU really high power. AVX heavy ones like Prime95 small FFT usually did the trick, but I don't know if anything has changed in ARL.
You have a 265k right? That's 125W TDP, 250W max turbo power. What limits are set when you test? From the leaks there were supposed to be baseline (125/177W) and performance (125/250W) profiles. Outside Raptor Lake maybe, historically few loads would take an Intel CPU really high power. AVX heavy ones like Prime95 small FFT usually did the trick, but I don't know if anything has changed in ARL.
I'm seeing this too... in AVX workloads (AIDA64 stress test). I can't get a 285K over 220W in A64 or XTU stress tests (it's often lower, regardless of what perf. option I use). This is using the 'performance" (250/250) setting. Even if I go 4096/4096 400A Icc it doesn't get any higher...it's not close to thermal throttling.
Previous generations, those same tests easily pushed these chips to its thermal limits and well over 250W. Now, it's hard to get there...
Checked W values in XTU, Hwinfo, and the latest Coretemp...
@Woomack - In hwinfo, are you seeing Core Power Limit exceed always "yes"? I am on some boards.....
Yes, it was the same, with power limits locked or unlocked. Yesterday, I moved to Gigabyte, and in AIDA64, the CPU+FPU was a maximum of 201W.
Btw. the CPU score on the GB mobo is 87.7. I guess each of them calculates it on its own. GB also has RAM OC profiles, up to 9466. My RAM couldn't post at more than 9200, while 9200 passed all tests (I had no time for any stability test).
I am somewhat curious about the large numbers of Zen 3 still selling. People upgrading from even older Zen, or new builds on the cheap?
Zen 3: 250 units
Zen 4: 450 units
Zen 5: 30 units
Raptors: 40 units
Intel's lack of sales might be due in part to 285k not being widely available. 265k is, but if you're not going for the top that's more of a value based judgement, and I feel if they knocked say >10% off the price that'll shift it. Similar for the 245k.
I don't know how much of that is true, but German retailers like Caseking (probably 2nd after Mindfactory in Germany) didn't have a single CPU a few days after the release. Mindfactory could be in the same spot with CPUs on the way, but not actually sold. Caseking (the same owner as OCUK store), and some others didn't even have them listed. Most retailers added them 2-3 days after release, with a delivery date expected 7-12 days later. So again, I wonder if they didn't sell it because no one wanted it, or because it wasn't available.
All 265Ks were sold in a few hours in all countries next to Germany, so it's hard to believe that Mindfactory would be the only store in the central EU that didn't sell a single CPU. When I see news based on twitter/x leaks, I'm unsure what to say.
I only add that the largest Polish retailers sold every 265K from the first delivery in ~3 hours. 285K was unavailable anywhere in central EU stores where I was searching, with an expected delivery date around November 6th (or later).
Good point on the stock availability. I've only been looking at one major UK seller (Scan) since launch. I've not seen 285k ever in stock (maybe they have but not when I was looking). 265k has always been available. 265kf isn't currently, I don't recall at launch. 245k(f) is available. Looking now at OCUK shows a similar story. Picking a 3rd seller, ebuyer, they don't have any listed in stock.
I do feel there is excessive hostility in parts of the media over ARL, similar to what we saw with Zen 5 at launch.
I see the same in the media and later comments under news/articles. No one forces anyone to buy anything, and no one requires upgrades every generation. It's still not right to say that the new CPUs (from both AMD and Intel) are bad because they are better than the last generation. There are some improvements and some things that were expected to be better but are still not bad.
While complaining about the CPU performance, people tend to focus on low-resolution games. Who said the new generation from both brands is designed only for gamers? Even if it was, how many people buy high CPUs from the latest gen to play games at low details and low display resolution? Most things I see on the web are ridiculous. People complain about things that they never buy or never use.
I despise testing like that. Some even go a step further to 'isolate the CPU' and use 720p with low settings. That data really doesn't tell you anything, as the results are different at reasonable settings and 1080p or greater. You can't even extrapolate those results up. It's a useless data set, those lower than 1080p/ultra.
Intel fesses up over problematic Core Ultra 200S launch - Leo says 77
"Leo looks back at the Intel Core Ultra 200S launch a short while ago and discusses recent developments and why he has put some of the motherboard testing on hold for the time being. Hot Hardware recently interviewed Intel's Robert Hallock, and he admitted, 'Too many companies in this world screw up and aren't honest about it. They are not candid about it, I am not that way, and I am fortunate to be in a position at Intel where I can drive an outcome that is different.' Intel's Robert Hallock."
00:00 Leo speaks 01:27 Recap and some fixes 02:42 How well do they perform? 04:20 Intel have spoken out 05:22 Memory latency 07:06 Other issues and more fixes? 08:33 Robert Hallock reaches out to Leo 09:31 Intel seem to be accepting the blame
Pretty bad timings, but I passed (barely) 10k on my RAM https://valid.x86.fr/kh5ukk
I guess it's not the best kit, as the new ASRock Z890 OCF BIOS has a 10400 OC profile, and it can't even post. Manually the same.
A quick conclusion from the tests so far:
8800 Gear 2 will be possible on all 2x16/24GB Hynix A/M CUDIMM, and most motherboards will handle it.
9000 Gear 2 will be possible on some motherboards and CPUs.
9200 Gear 2 will be barely possible on anything.
9466 Gear 4 will be possible on average CPUs
9733 Gear 4 will be possible on above-average CPUs (count maybe top 10%)
Even more regular 4-slot motherboards have 9466-9600 RAM profiles, so it's not required to buy the top OC mobo if you want a high RAM clock. However, only some OC series mobo will run at the highest Gear 2 settings, like 9000-9200. I couldn't make the ASRock Z890 Taichi Lite and Gigabyte Z890 Master work at G2 above 8800. 9000 works on ASRock Z890I Nova (will be reviewed soon), and 9200 works on ASRock Z890 OCF (will also be reviewed soon).
8800 Gear 2 is faster than anything Gear 4 up to 10000. Current RAM and IMCs will end somewhere close to 10k on ambient temps.
8000-8400 UDIMM is barely slower than 8800-9200 CUDIMM G2 and faster than 9466-9733 G4.
Realistic high performance for Arrow Lake-S looks like 8000-8200 UDIMM (many kits are on sale right now) or 8400-8800 CUDIMM. Everything above is nice but probably not worth the higher price.
I know most people went the AMD way as it's somehow faster for games, but maybe someone wonders if there is a point in investing in RAM for Intel.
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