ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3, SSDs and Questions.

[minfischer]

Im new here, so hello.


I'm not here to talk about me, but i do mostly photo work and am looking to game a little more. i have done several simple builds, but nothing like this, so i need some help. Im building a new computer and just have some questions. I don't know if what i have gotten so far or what i am planning is anything special or lame, so call it dumb or cool, it doesn't matter. Its kind of just something for me to have fun with, experiment, and learn with. So maybe that will explain some of it. I like problem solving, but i would like to know what I'm getting into here. I have also color coordinated everything to black, blue, and white (if anybody cares or wondered why i picked certain hardware) maybe you think its lame, whatever.

Anyways, I will list what i have bought so far. Then what i was thinking about buying next, then show my plan, and finally i will ask my questions, which are pretty much for the most part about the motherboard, so thats why this post is in the motherboard forum.

So far I have:

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
CPU: Core i7 2600
Cooler: Intel Liquid Cooler
SSD: 2x 90GB Corsair Force Series 3
Memory: 16GB Corsair Vengence LP CML8GX3M2A1600C9B (4x8GB)
PSU: Corsair HX850
Case: NZXT H2 (White)
BluRay Burner/Player: LG Multi Blue BH14
Graphics Card: MSI N560GTX-Ti

Looking to get:

HDD: 3x Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 64MB
SSD: 2x 120GB Corsair Force Series 3


Plan was:

OS/Programs: 2x90GB SSDs in Raid 0 on the Sata3 connectors on the intel controller.
Data: 3x 1TB Caviar Blacks in Raid 5 on the Sata2 connectors on the intel controller.
Bluray: On the last Sata2 connector on the intel controller or one of the marvell controller connectors.

However, i forgot about a scratch disk for photoshop. So now I'm thinking of this:

OS/Programs: 2x120GB SSDs in Raid 0 on the Sata3 connectors on the intel controller.
Data: 3x 1TB Caviar Blacks in Raid 5 on the Sata2 connectors on the intel controller.
Bluray: On the last Sata2 connector on the intel controller.
Scratch disk: 2x90GB SSDs in Raid 0 on the marvel controller.

Now I'm reading a bunch of negative crap about the marvel controller and SSDs, and that there isn't a big deal of difference with the SSDs out now in Raid 0 or just one by itself.

My questions are: (please note when i talk about SSDs I'm talking about the Corsair Force Series 3 (they are black and blue

1. Would the marvel controller be ok for the Raid 0 SSDs just for a scratch disk?

2. Can i actually have that many different raid arrays on this board?

3. Could i actually only have those 3 data drives in raid 5 and then use the left over port for optical drive on the intel controller?

4. Should i just return the 90GB SSDs and get 2x 120GB SSDs and use one for boot/apps and one for scratch on the intel controller and not touch the marvel controller?

5. would one 240GB SSD be as fast as 2x90GB SSDs in Raid 0?

6. Anybody know what size SSD is good for scratch disk? I have always used a 500GB HDD. (i mostly use a mac for my photo editing)

7. I would like to hear your ideas on what i should do with the SSDs and to raid them or not for scratch and os/apps, as well as the marvell controller with these things.

PS
I also had the idea of putting the OS on one 90GB SSD and programs on another. So i guess thats an option too.

Thanks a lot. And yes, i have spent the past 3 weeks researching these issues online.

Thanks again.

 

[SF101]

raid 0 on a ssd doesnt really pan out because of trim support. "good for short term os and benching"
1. you wont notice it really performance wise
2. later down the road you will see slowdowns in raid 0 with ssds due to trim.

id just go with a 250 area SSD over 2x 120 or 2x 90 then you have some spare room and on 1 drive saving power aswell as gaining some performance without the future loss in performance due to no trim support.

id also scrap the intel liquid cooler and just go for a good air cooler since your not getting the 2600"K" all you need is something like a A50 or a hyper 212 both will be more reliable than the closed loop liquid solutions on market.

if you don't care for the marvel controller you can save a little with the non PRO model board.

you could also save some cash most likely with going 2x2tb drives in raid 1 over 3x1tb in raid 5 ive seen some 2tb drives priced close to 1tbs .. and if its just storage drives you can go with something alittle more cost effective than blacks ect.

 

[EarthDog]

raid 0 on a ssd doesnt really pan out because of trim support. "good for short term os and benching"
1. you wont notice it really performance wise
2. later down the road you will see slowdowns in raid 0 with ssds due to trim.

Yikes.

*There is garbage collection that also works well...

1. Depends on what you do, but mostly you are correct. Level loads and large file manipulation does show significant improvements.

2. Garbage Collection.

 

[minfischer]

well im thinking the only thing i would return right now is the SSDs. i ordered it all online and would rather just keep it. then deal with that. in fact it would cost me more money to downgrade the motherboard with the shipping charges or sending it back. i got the liquid cooler because its cleaner/nicer looking then the big air coolers, and the NZXT case i have is a silent one and a little more sealed off, so i think it will be a little better at keeping it cooler. (however, im not sure cause im obviously no pro at this).

1. what do you mean by large file manipulation. if i am editing a photo composite that gets to be several gigabytes large, (or hd video) would i see an increase? would i see the increase if that file is stored on the hdd array though? or would it have to be stored on the ssd to see the performance boost?

2. yeah i was confused on the trim issue.

What about the idea of putting the os on one ssd and programs on the other, and have them both on the intel controller? would that see an increase in performance over just all on one ssd? Then put the scratch on the marvel controller.

Anyways, i guess if im not doing anymore than the one raid array on the data drive then there is really only one question that i would like an answer for that pertains to the forum this thread was posted in.

Can i actually have the original idea of the 3 raid arrays working on this board at the same time, and could i have an optical drive plugged into the left over sata port on the sata2 intel controller that i would have the 3 data drives on(in a raid array)?

besides that question, i guess i should move to a forum that deals with the performance of the SSDs in raid arrays.

However, i am thinking i should probably just have os/programs on at least a 120gb ssd, and a scratch disk on at least another 120gb ssd and have them both on the sata3 intel controller. (well 120-240gb at least for both)

 

[Knufire]

You got all great overclocking hardware and an unOCable CPU... .

Anyway, on the storage issue. First thing is that what makes the SSD "feel" fast is the access times. Access times increase when your RAID SSDs, so it might not feel as fast. You also lose TRIM support, but it's semi-okay, because you still have Garbage Collection to help with drive longevity.

What you get when you RAID SSDs is a large increase in sequential read and write speeds. Essentially, moving big files to and from the SSD will be a ton faster. Moving lots of small files will not be.

Personally, I don't think it's worth it to RAID SSDs. I'd just get a single boot/program SSD and another single SSD as a scratch disk. The RAID 5 array for storage is perfect.

 

[minfischer]

You got all great overclocking hardware and an unOCable GPU... .

Anyway, on the storage issue. First thing is that what makes the SSD "feel" fast is the access times. Access times increase when your RAID SSDs, so it might not feel as fast. You also lose TRIM support, but it's semi-okay, because you still have Garbage Collection to help with drive longevity.

What you get when you RAID SSDs is a large increase in sequential read and write speeds. Essentially, moving big files to and from the SSD will be a ton faster. Moving lots of small files will not be.

Personally, I don't think it's worth it to RAID SSDs. I'd just get a single boot/program SSD and another single SSD as a scratch disk. The RAID 5 array for storage is perfect.

the gpu i got is factory OC by MSI, but my CPU is not the k version, so no it cant be, i guess. unless you accidentally typed a g instead of a c and meant the cpu.

i think i would just work on my files from the data raid array, and no files will actually be on the SSDs. so i guess it would be in all ways, pointless, huh?

ok so, would it be better to put the os/program ssd on the intel sata3 controller, and put the scratch on the marvel controller? would that be better then having them share the same controller.

also, what about having that optical drive reside on the left over sata3 port on the intel controller (the one the 3 disk data raid array will be on). can i put that on there, or not? or should i just put it on one of the marvell controller ports.

thanks again

 

[Knufire]

the gpu i got is factory OC by MSI, but my CPU is not the k version, so no it cant be, i guess. unless you accidentally typed a g instead of a c and meant the cpu.

Sorry, yeah, typo, I meant the CPU.

I'd say RAID5 + optical drive on the Intel SATAII controller, OS drive on the Intel SATA III, and scratch on the Marvall.

 

[SF101]

Yikes.

*There is garbage collection that also works well...

1. Depends on what you do, but mostly you are correct. Level loads and large file manipulation does show significant improvements.

2. Garbage Collection.

Sry didn't remember ever seeing a update on garbage collection, confirmed working properly on raid 0's if it works fine now my bad.

 

[EarthDog]

No update... at least in the past couple years GC has been doing the job with trim on non raided drives. With raid its just GC. Some implementations of it work better than others however.

 

[minfischer]

ok, thanks alot. i think i have decided to do the set up Knufire said to. although this is experimental for me, i dont want to have to deal with to many issues with the raided SSDs right off the bat, (maybe play with it later). This is my first SSD experience, i cant wait. I always want to dive in and make things complicated and hard on myself. I think ill return the SSDs and get 2 of the 120 or 240GB ones. i just noticed they even dropped the 120gb's price to the same as the 90GB ones i bought on tigerdirect.

thanks again. it will be a bit till i get this up an running, ill check back in.

thanks again.

 

[minfischer]

oh, and ps.

Just wanted to say i appreciate the professionalism here so far. Usually when i join some forum for help, im knee deep in idiots being annoying or calling me names by the second reply, people avoiding questions, and just being plan dumb.