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ASUS P9X79 and DAW. Speedstep, turbo, auto O.C?

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Senso

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Hi everybody, this is my first post on this forum.

Here is my problem. This is a thread I posted on www.gear****z.com EDIT: (gear**** z) sorry but there is an automatic word correction tool it seems). The z must be attached to the word. Sorry for this inconveniance.

---->g_e_a_r_s_l_u_t_z (really serious site but contains this blocking word lol)

Hi,
I'm on a new system based on an x79 architecture. Everything seems to work perfectly.

Check this post to check the exact spec: http://www.gear****z.com/board/music-computers/682335-post-your-x79-2011-lga-experiences-here.html

I do not have the same DPC as ADK but I can work the way I'm used to on this new rig. I do not need to work with 64 samples buffer nor 128....but rather 1024....the way I use to work doesn't require low latencies.
(max dpc is about 90 with network and internet ON + everything ON/ I have just disabled the VIA motherboard controller and audio azalia motherboard OFF from bios). Nvidia audio drivers are still here and I must disable them as well.
FF800 and Exsys pcie express card seem to love each other :)
I have read sooooooooo many things about keeping things (turbo mode, core parking,....,....,....) enabled or not in the BIOS that I'm actually totally lost and need help. Or at least a few advices.

So before doing something which could ruin everything....I want to ask some heads here because you guys are obviously my new "Yodas"...

I have overclocked (auto-overclocking from asus bios--- O.C option) the system to 4200 Mhz which seems totally fair for that kind of system.
Here is my BIOS: I have done screenshots so you can make yourself an opinion about it.
I have disabled VIA and motherboard AUDIO via the bios already but I have to disable networking stuff as soon as I will have totally finish to configure it.

I'm a really in the early stage of understanding "advanced" basics so I really need help and advices to make this system future proof and stable (even though it seems rock solid now lol).
I'm upgrading from a core duo...so i'm totally lost in fact....
Every comment is welcome. Thank's!!!

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I did an auto-overclocking just to test it. It works great. Maybe it's a good thing to do? I don't know.
I don't understand why in the two last pics...ram seems not beeing affected...(everything is @ 100% ). For CPU, increases is shown...
I don't understand how all these features and utlities are linked...I have the possibility to boost the system from so many places and utiltaries....this asus probe II is great IMO...
Pfiuu...this is complex for me at this stage.... I would pay to have someone sit next to me and explain it. Sorry for being a noob :)
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So after a chat with an ASUS tech, he has told me that I should better put overclock off:
here is the thread.
People who are ovefclocking can give their comment on their existing tuning : stability, DURABILITY, performance...

from asus website:

Hi, I just have built a new pc based on a P9X79 board (intel i7 3960x). In the bios I have found the O.C function which I tried. It worked great. It has auto-overclocked my system to 4.2 Ghz in one mouse click. I have installed A.I suite II (1.02.11) as well to control and manage everything from the os and not the bios which is really helpful. What's the difference between the O.C function found in the BIOS and the one found in the A.I suite where you have two options for auto-overclocking (fast and extreme). Are these related...are there any dangers which I should be aware of?

Hi...

They are all connected.. different ways of doing the same thing. Exactly how there are set up would take a volume to discuss.. In general, the operating system based overclocking features will lead to the most stable overclocks when they work correctly.. although not the highest overclocks.

However, any overclocking.. whether from the operating system or the BIOS... risks damage to your system. If you can not see any difference in the performance of your software applications with the system overclocked or at its default settings, then you degrade your system to no purpose.

Hi Ulrich, thank's for efficient and fast support. This is appreciated :) I installed a corsair H80 as watercooling thermal support and my RAM is a 16 Go 4x4 Kingston HyperX quad 1866. My first intention was not to overclock it but I was told that with the specifications of my system it would be pretty safe. I overclocked it to the first step: 4.2 Ghz. CPU temp is about 35°C and motherboard is 30°C. Do you think I should keep it safer than that and return to my previous state? I use this system as a DAW. (RME fireface 800 connected to EXsys pcie 1394b controller (TI chipset...). (you would have so more success amongst musicians with those installed on asus boards...really.). So even auto-oveclocked to a humble 4.2 the system might degrade "significantly" over time? I will a try with a some cpu hog audio synthetisers and will tell you if there is a need for me to it or not.

Hi,
Definitely try running those CPU intensive applications both with the over clock and at default settings and see if there is any significant advantage... In an enterprise environment.. a situation where your income depends to some extent on the speed of your system... getting things accomplished faster can be important. But if you are a hobbyist, then speed really doesn't matter.. quality is what matters... and since the system is not a business expense, its longevity becomes important. The problem with overclocking is that the higher voltages required can cause massive heating in processor gates... heating that occurs so quickly that it can not be addressed by any cooling solution.. save maybe liquid nitrogen or the like. This momentary heating causes the trace material to fuse into the substrate rendering the gate inoperable.. and if enough of that happens, the circuitry fails. So although a good cooler may keep the Tcase temperature reasonable, it can't address whar might be going on down in the guts of a single core or cache memory gates and traces.. massive heat that occurs in a split second.

From the webmaster himself:

The TPU Switch, OC Tuner, and Auto Tuning - Fast Tune will lead you to the same result, while Auto Tuning - Extreme Tune will continue the tuning process follow by system stress test till the system hangs, then roll back two steps to ensure stable operation. Apart from that, they should be the same.

Maybe usefull for some of you...
cheers
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You have proper cooling so till you dont change the default vcore durability is not an issue, especially when you have a proxessor made for overclock, thats why you paid 1000$.
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For a mild overclock I'd leave the base clock frequency at 100 and raise the multiplier instead. Probably I'd find out how far I can increase to multiplier without raising the cpu voltage and leave it at that. Have you made sure the memory settings are all correct, this might improve latency?
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Thank's for sharing your thoughts... But i'm now afraid by oc. I know it's probably stupid and due to the fact i'm a noob in that domain.
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@ mplay: this oc was done automatically to ensure best performances ( from asus manual) but i think you must be right and that manual fine settings should be better. If you have read the whole thing (which is pretty long lol) I haven't tweaked anything amongst the usual suspects... But do you have an advice to check if my ram is working properly or have seen something strange?
thank's again! This is appreciated.
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I would stay clear of the auto overclock. You could also install coretemp to check, I wouldn't be surprised if the cpu voltage has already been raised. I would trust coretemp over the asus uefi readings (I hate all efi's :) )
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Why overclock a computer if it's not needed? This is the way I see it, OC'ing that has become very popular with newer hardware. I would only OC my system, if I ever needed some extra speeding power from it. But if you're on an X79 system, I'm pretty sure you don't need anything extra in the speed area. Then OC will only make your computer use more power, heat up more quickly and if you use the OC tools in windows... stability issues, PDC issues could also be a problem.

I really can't figure out, why people are OC'ing the hell out of their DAW systems, if it doesn't mean anything in your projects. If you run all your projects fine without OC, then OC'ing your system will do nothing. It's just a trend, that started as a funny nerd thing among hardcore gamers for many years ago, just to see if they could get a few percentage more power out of their system.

If you wanna OC, then do it in the BIOS (and don't go crazy with it!). Don't use all the mobo utility stuff, as this only makes your setup more unstable, and could add some extra DPC.

Only my personaly meaning about OC'ing a very very powerful x79 system, that you've bought. Personally I'll OC my old Q6600 DAW system, but not anything fast and new.

Please help me out with an constructive answer to why people that doesn't need the extra OC power, ever should OC their system?!
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I would not overclock a system. if you feel lije you need more cpu power, use a server mobo with 2 CPUs and Ram in speed configuration.
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Overclocking is not a problem if you have the cooling for it. Also, the multiplayers are unlocked for a reason.

Two chips and a server mother board also coast a lot more than a multithreaded 6 core machine. I would overclock it if I needed the extra performance boast. Do you need it? If so, than do it!

But read your warranty before you do!
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Shouldn't we ask Sensorychaos, if he has already maxed out his new x79 system. I'll bet that he hasn't even started to hit the limit. Then OC'ing is in my opinion as said earlier not worth it.

@Mista min, I know it's not a problem doing it. But why waste extra power on the house bill, if it doesn't help you anything in your DAW projects. And why go out an balance your new setup between stability and unstability and maybe more DPC if people start using the mobo soft OC utilities.

Again, give me a good reason to OC my next super duper fast DAW computer, as I just can't see the light :)
I used to overclock many years ago. Back then it was a massive performance gain. Nowadays with the power computers have it's barely needed. I'd potentially overclock a gaming machine, but not a DAW.
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I used to overclock many years ago. Back then it was a massive performance gain. Nowadays with the power computers have it's barely needed. I'd potentially overclock a gaming machine, but not a DAW.
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Ok dude....this is important. Do not use the AUTO OC functions. They suck and I believe put too much stress on the CPU/Mobo. It's not about heat...as you are fine, it's about voltage.

The Base Clock should always be 100 from what I've read. Then you take the cores and simply multiply them and use your RAMs XMP profile at it's highest level.

Poof...you have a perfect Overclock...and believe me...there's a huge difference.

You know without overclocking you may as well not have gotten the top of the line chip...Why not any chip? Those chips are meant to be BEASTS! That's why they are $1000

Also..take all that Asus Bloatware and uninstall it...it's worthless. All the pro overclockers don't use it. I went back to the basics and learned from season overclockers and simply went from a strange 4.3690 or something wierd.....with terrible ram timings...to using my exact 4300 OC and 1600 at resting clock.

Your Mobo can damage the CPU because it just pumps as much voltage as it wants and I've heard some mobos even fry themselves... But for days now...I went back to just using the ram's ability as the base.... So make sure the mobos TPU is off and manually set it. Don't worry about anything right off the bat except bclk - 100 and XMP profile 1866 and see where that leads you for now.

Any crazy or wrong settings will just not post...so it's safer to mess up than the run Asus's crazy auto settings.

I have the i5-2500k @ 4300 but I use power savings mode so it's running normally at 1600 ghrtz. I believe that for audio programs...you may want to turn that off...but for now I have no reason to as my song making XP drive is not working as it should...something to do with the new system migration. I need to do a repair install and the OEM disk I was using disables it. Blah..blah blah...

Win7 is much better for just grabbing drivers... I wish they would put that into WinXP somehow... For new builds at least...it just disables the old ones and uses the new... I love that.
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Thank you all to take some time to reply. It helps me a lot.
But as I can see...half of the people here suggest one thing and the other another thing.
I just have done a test on a 4.2 Gz OC. Now I have to do the same with the non overclocked one and see if there is significant difference. But as webmaster from asus suggest I will first keep my system safe...run big projects and see if I have enough power....which should be the case...
To hurt this cpu with big spikes: 5x DIVA (divine mode) with 5 notes polyphony each (very little release) but max voices on the synth was 8. At this stage the cpu is still laughing at me...so I decided to really hurt him lol.
I took the same 5 DIVA with same same settings + 2 FUSOR with 5 notes polyphony (little release) (=6 dcam synth loaded with effects) with a 16x oversampling each. I succeeded....
But DCAM 64 bit are perhaps not the best things to test in benchmark....cpu is moving a little bit even when not playing which is not the case with DIVA or Arturia...
I think just with DIVA in divine mode I could have stacked A LOT of them....
I'm working with a high latency. Fortunantely I don't need short ones...I think it would have been different.
Are the pros's here finding my DPC to high (probably if ADK pc are shipped with 5-10 dpc)? What are the danger? Even with working with high latency?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLL
If you wanna OC, then do it in the BIOS (and don't go crazy with it!). Don't use all the mobo utility stuff, as this only makes your setup more unstable, and could add some extra DPC.

Seems wise.

BUT

so many different advices....

A. The one who say: 3960x is done for overclocking...go for it...this a monster.
B. The one who say (ASUS tech notably!!!) "Don't play a dangerous game...it's a question of durability"
But for me...a durability of 3 years is enough if my system is overclocked to 4.2 Ghz and behaves normally. Maybe I could oveclock it to a very humble 3.8Ghz without any fear...


So if someone has in mind to get one of those ASUS board (which seem really great frankly...furthmore...no conflicts with firewire audio when a TI chip is added...haven't even tried the VIA controller...maybe it's working). Give me a sign...we could try to increase performances "back to back" and compare systems....
I mean this system is extremely powerfull and might interest a lot of people.
So it could help a lot of people in the same situation and exclude double-triple-quadra post....
I'm just in that situation where i'm blocked because my knowledge in this domain is weak.
I'm gonna wait a little bit...return to original state. And wait til someone has pretty the same config as me in order to do things professionaly.

Can someone please resume in a few clear sentences what are the things which can be removed in the bios on x79 architecture to reduce dpc latency.
(not talking about OC here.)
Luv
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Just disable any power saving features in the bios...EPU I think is the main one. There might be a CPU one as well. I have the Z68 chipset but I think the bios is very similar.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaproject
Just disable any power saving features in the bios...EPU I think is the main one. There might be a CPU one as well. I have the Z68 chipset but I think the bios is very similar.

Thank's!

but I read somewhere "turbo mode" should be "ON" with this config...speaking about cpu power saving... ?
and what about "intel speedstep technology"?
(I'm slowly understanding things thank's guys but it's a sloooow process). A few weeks more and I'll be able to talk in a more usefull way lol
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Yea...turbo mode...that's not exactly the same thing as power saving modes.... Without Turbo, the chip may not even clock upwards.

In power saving mode...the chips run low speeds if you aren't doing heavy tasks or gaming. Like I said...my chip runs @ 1.6 but jumps to 4.3 when in games. By turning off CPU turbo, it may stay at the stock 3.3 speed. I have not looked into this "turbo enable/disable" but I have read about the CPU power settings a bit. You also want something that says Asus Optimized to be at Extreme. That allows the most stable for Overclocking shall you go any higher than 3.3.

I assume your chip runs at 1.2Ghrtz at default huh. Then 3.3 Ghrtz when taxed.

However, you have 6 cores.....so do you really need to overclock....probably not much. I think it's a waste for someone to buy water cooling though and NOT OC to at minimum 4.0. otherwise any air cooler would have done the trick. Shame to see that.

Check overclockers.com or HardOCP for some info on those chips and motherboard settings
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OC all depends on temperature.

My 26k z68 @4.4GHz is 32-36c......not a problem.

My un-overclockable laptop av. 55c
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rksguit
OC all depends on temperature.
My 26k z68 @4.4 is 32-36c......not a problem.

Yea...I hear the 2600k's do 4.5 no problem.

I've heard the standard is something like

i5-2500k - 4.3 - 50% reach this. 30% go to 4.5, some lucky chips go to 5 actually on water cooling.

The i7-2600k - 4.5 50% hit this or higher. Record I've seen is CPU:Core i7 2600K @ 5,863.47MHz on H20
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So I'm aware my post is huge but it could be helpful for a lot of musicians this new architecture.

I really need PRO advice...
THANK'S IN ADVANCE :comp:
 
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OP
S

Senso

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Jesus... My post has litterally disappeared... it took so long to write :'(
 

mbentley

Gloriously Lead, Overclockix Chief Architect
Joined
Sep 26, 2002
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Nope, didn't disappear. Just went into auto-moderation due to the large number of pictures and/or links. You should have actually be told that your post was put into the auto-moderation queue but you may have missed that after you hit submit. Your post should be showing up now.

Also, I'm guessing that there is a word in those links that violates one of our rules about language and that is why the filter is replacing them. :welcome: to the forums.
 
OP
S

Senso

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Hi again,
I guess I'm the only one here to have used that auto-oc in the asus bios. I guess it's a noob option too. It seems that people who know how to overclock a pc don't use that function. Asus claims it makes the system stable with the o.c it does...
Do the "gurus" here see something weird on the pics i uploaded?
If my system is o.c'ed to 4.2 ghz and if i push the system with heavy applications... Could it heat too much and damage any components or should it be more oc'ed in order too damage it.
Someone suggests to leave the base clock to 100 and change other parameters... But this is an auto-overclocked result...giving another number than 100 for the base clock...so is this really a good thing?
I need help. Could someone check my pics.
Thank's a lot guys! It's greatly appreciated.
 
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Senso

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Hi again and again,

Without any offense. People here seem to react slowly and are not aimed to help people...if they have not a knowledge base.
I have browsed many forums...so i can permit myself to have such a statement.
I was just asking if anyone suspected anything strange in the pics I uploaded....how difficult to take 3 min to check...I took hours to post....
A few basic questions....Obviousely...I have not logged in the right place.
ByeBye and thank's for everything.