Athlon 64 X2 5200+ OC'ing questions

[Tomekks]

Hello! This is my first time posting here, although I've used information of this site some time ago already.

I am kind of new to overclocking and I started to research, what frequencies can my processor reach. I discovered that by default, it's at the 2.6GHz mark.
I messed around a little in the bios at a menu called: MB Intelligent Tweaker.
In that menu, there are these functions and values def/now:
CPU Freequency - 200/208
PCIE Clock - 100
CPU Clock Ratio - Auto/x13,5 - max.
Robost Graphics Booster - Auto
Chipset voltage: Normal
DDR2 Voltage - Auto
CPU Voltage - 1.3500

With this configuration I got this @ 46t:



Now I have a few questions:
1) Should I stay at this or try to change anything more? When I put the CPU Freequency @ 210, it hangs and doesn't even load POST. What more can be done with my porcessor?
2) What will happen if I set the Graphics Booster to Fast or Turbo? Does it controls the integrated graphics or will it change something for my video card?
3) What happens if DDR2 or chipset voltage is increased?
4) Will increasing PCI-E Clock by 1 or 2 change anything in performance of the CPU?

My Configuration.
OS: MS Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit SP1
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+
RAM: 2.0GB Single-Channel DDR2 @ 401MHz (5-5-5-15)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. GA-M56S-S3 (Socket M2)
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 2900 PRO (ATI)

Thank you in an advance. [:

 

[trents]

So, to allow the CPU overclock to go higher you will need to increase the CPU voltage. The big question is what are your core temps running now and will the core temp allow you to run higher CPU voltage. I assume you are using the stock cooler that came with the CPU.

Please install the program, "Prime95" and the program "CoreTemp". Run Prime95 for 10-15 minutes and report max core temp.

The other issue is that you are overclocking your ram when you increase the CPU frequency (aka, "fsb").

Let's get a more complete picture of your hardware and its current settings. Please upload pics of CPU-z tabs: "CPU", "Memory" and "SPD".

 

[QuietIce]

to OCF!

Now I have a few questions:
1) Should I stay at this or try to change anything more? When I put the CPU Freequency @ 210, it hangs and doesn't even load POST. What more can be done with my porcessor?
2) What will happen if I set the Graphics Booster to Fast or Turbo? Does it controls the integrated graphics or will it change something for my video card?
3) What happens if DDR2 or chipset voltage is increased?
4) Will increasing PCI-E Clock by 1 or 2 change anything in performance of the CPU?

First, to answer your questions:
1) If your cooling is good enough I'm sure you can do better.
It's probably not the processor but the RAM that's hanging you up. We can fix that.

2) That's a "feature" that many s939 and AM2 boards had and it's worthless.

3) The chipset voltage shouldn't be a problem. You might need it later but, for now, leave it at Auto. RAM voltage is a different story.

4) It won't change the performance of anything but it has, on occasion, stabilized an overclock. If you run into problems later, setting PCIe to 101 is something you can try. For now leave it be.


Now, on to what I suspect is the problem - RAM. When you increase the clock you also increase the RAM and HT Link speeds. As you can see, your HT Link is already running at 1040 MHz instead of 1000 MHz. That's usually OK but not always. You should look for a setting for your HT Link speed and change it to "x4". It may also be labeled "800 MHz" instead of x4.

The RAM is a little more complicated. Somewhere in BIOS you should have a RAM speed setting. This can be labeled "Mem Limit" or something similar instead of just RAM speed. (I don't know why BIOS writers have to make it complicated. ) You'll also need to find where to set RAM timings. There will be a whole list of things to set with most of them starting with 'T', like Trc, Tras, etc. Luckily you only have to worry about a few of them. Use CPU-Z's SPD tab to find your RAM timings for 400 MHz then manually set those RAM timings. At the same time, change the RAM speed to 333 MHz (can also be labeled "667 MHz" or "5:6").

That should get you set to push the clock up higher without getting into trouble with the RAM or HT Link.

If you would like more detail here's everything you always wanted to know - and then some - about overclocking an AM2:
www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=555058

Good luck and post back with results and/or questions. Posting those CPU-Z screen shots that trents requested would be nice, too ...

 

[Tomekks]

So. I did the stress test for about 14 minutes and the temperatures did not change from this:


And here are the CPU-z screenshots you asked.




This is my CPY cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus

I'll check the bios, when I get back home.

 

[QuietIce]

That load core temp is way too high to attempt increasing the vCore. The thing is, it shouldn't be with the Hyper 212+. That's usually one of three things:

high ambient temp (room temp)
poor case airflow
improper installation of the heatsink (too much/not enough TIM, usually)

If your room temp is normal (70-75°F) then I'd guess it's case airflow. If you have a room fan you can test case airflow by removing the side of the case and blowing the room fan into it. If the temps drop by more than 1-2° then you may have a problem.

The final possibility means removing the heatsink, cleaning the CPU and heatisnk, then re-starting the installation from scratch ...

 

[Tomekks]

Well.. I bet it's the cases fault and my room temperature is approximately 23 degrees celsius [ 75°F ].

Then, as I don't really need that overclocking THAT much, I think I'll stay ar this 100mhz increase will do. Right?
But, should I still try to OC the RAM?

 

[QuietIce]

I had an Opty 165 that I ran at 55/60 for well over a year before I got water cooling for it, and then it ran another 3+ years until I started having other problems with the system. You're not in the kill zone, yet. You may still be able to increase the CPU speed - just don't add any more vCore (CPU voltage) to it. With computers it's not speed that kills (or generates much heat), it's voltage. Manually set your RAM timings to 5-5-5-15, set the RAM speed to 333 MHz, set the RAM voltage to 1.85v, and set the HT Link speed to x4 - all as I described above. Leave the vCore set at 1.35v then see if you can increase the clock speed.


PS
Here's a copy of OCZ's specs for your RAM - just so you have them for later.
DDR2-800
CL 4-5-4-15 (CAS-TRCD-TRP-TRAS) @ 2.1 Volts

 

[trents]

Well.. I bet it's the cases fault and my room temperature is approximately 23 degrees celsius [ 75°F ].

Then, as I don't really need that overclocking THAT much, I think I'll stay ar this 100mhz increase will do. Right?
But, should I still try to OC the RAM?

Wait, don't give up so quick. Your temps are too high to overclock very much but with that CPU cooler (its a very good one) you should, as QI said, be getting better temps. It might be due to case air flow but it could also be to poor seating of the heatsink or improper application of the thermal paste.

Tell us about your case. Make and model? Fans: how many, how big, where placed?

That heatsink is not the easiest to install. The mounting mechanism is rather complicated. I just put one on a friend's computer recently. Wiggle it a little. Does it seem loose? A good amount of pressure between heatsink and CPU face is important to good heat transfer.

Also, describe to us how you applied the thermal paste? With those exposed heat pipe coolers, some of the usual methods of application don't work well.

Edit: In my HTPC machine I'm running a setup very similar to yours. I have a Athlon 64 X2 4400+ stably overclocked from 2.3 to 2.8 ghz on 3.5 volts in bios and an inexpensive $40 Foxconn AM2+ motherboard. With a room temp of 21c (70F) I'm getting Prime 95 max core temps of about 52-53c using a cheap knock off of what is the Hyper 212 Plus' little brother, the Hyper TX3.

My no-name case has two 80 mm fans in front and one 120 mm fan in the rear. My point is something is making your temps too high and it could be something easily fixed.

 

[Tomekks]

Okay, so the thing is, my case is cramped full of these computery thingies, as I like to call them. From the pictures below, you can clearly see that.
http://www.bildites.lv/images/bfh9ie8q1jnev9ppino6.jpg
http://www.bildites.lv/images/gphr4dw1u9pek52ojqeo.jpg
http://www.bildites.lv/images/o7nswa67tkviuwg1cih.jpg
http://www.bildites.lv/images/h25psn7ol2wbzjgocrz.jpg
http://www.bildites.lv/images/wc8xkq7rkzt07o0knh3i.jpg

This could be a huge issue in the air-flow field.
Another thing, as you can see, my PSU is blowing it's stuff on the CPU cooler and the CPU cooler is blowing it's breeze on my 75C video card [ don't know, why the HD2900 Pro is that hot, haven't yet tried to disassamble it [ tho I have cleaned the dust off it from time to time ], nor I have found any tutorials on how to do that ], which is ending the wind circulation because all that breeze get's knocked out by the video cards plate.

I think I did a good job of installing the cooler. I removed the old thermopaste, smeared it smoothly all over the CPU. Just a basic 1mm or so coating. And then came the tricky part - putting on the cooler itself. It was a bit difficult and it twisted all the way round while I got it down and not moving at all [ hope that's OK ]. Actually, the cooler is 3-5mm too high for my case, so I just budget the side on and hold it down to screw it on, so the side of the PC isn't open.
That's my adventure of changing my first ever cooler for the CPU.

QuietIce, thank you, I will change my RAM's performance as soon as we get to the bottom of how far I can push my system without it exploding because I ain't getting a new PC anytime soon. [:

I don't actually know the model of the case but it's pretty basic, only in black.

If we're talking about temperatures. The laptop I'm writing from, had it's processor average temp of 79C for over two years. Last week I finally get to fix it by disassembling it changing the thermal paste on everything there was to put it on.

 

[trents]

1. Why is your PSU "blowing its stuff on the CPU cooler"? Did you take the PSU apart and change the direction of the fans? Normally, PSUs exhaust air from the inside of the case to the outside. Are you sure it is doing as you say? If you put your hand near the exhaust fan of the PSU at the back of the case you should feel it blowing air onto your hand.
2. Your cable management could use attention. Looks like you have used zip ties to bunch some of the longer ones up but it would also help if you would take some ties and pull the cables down along side the drive bays on either side to keep the middle space as free of clutter as possible.
3. Your description of how you applied the thermal paste and the struggle you had securing the cooler makes me think you should try that again. First, take the motherboard out of the case so you can have plenty of room to attach the cooler without having to fight with nearby components being in the way. Second, go out and buy a quality thermal paste like Arctic Silver 5. Third, clean the CPU face and the heatsink face with a paper coffee filter moistened with some rubbing alcohol. Fourth, apply the thermal paste correctly. The method that seems to work best with those exposed heatpipe coolers like yours is to drizzle a thin line of thermal paste down the center of each copper heatpipe. Then clamp the cooler down on the CPU. The clamping pressure will cause the paste to spread naturally along the surfaces without introducing air bubbles.
4. Which way is the CPU cooler fan blowing air? It should be blowing air into the face of the cooler so that the fan is forcing air through the plates. Some people actually make the mistake of turning the fan so that it is sucking air through the cooler plates. That doesn't work so well unless you have two fans in a push-pull configuration.
5. Finally, why in the world have you not put a fan in the back of the case? There is a hole there for one and there seems to be plenty of room to mount it. I bet that would make a large difference in your temps. Are there also any places in the front of the case to mount fans that you currently aren't utilizing?

You really need a better, roomier case and I would suggest you consider that for your next purchase. Get one at least 8" wide from outside to outside to accommodate that tall CPU cooler. I might suggest the Antec 300 as a great case at a great price.

 

[QuietIce]

This could be a huge issue in the air-flow field.
Another thing, as you can see, my PSU is blowing it's stuff on the CPU cooler

If your PSU is like most of them then the PSU fan above the heatsink should be pulling air into the PSU, which means your PSU fan and CPU fan are fighting for the same air.

QuietIce, thank you, I will change my RAM's performance as soon as we get to the bottom of how far I can push my system without it exploding because I ain't getting a new PC anytime soon. [:

As long as you turn down the RAM speed to 333 MHz (for now) everything should be OK with the RAM.

 

[trents]

The PSU and the CPU cooling fan may be fighting for the same air but I think that's better than having hot air exhausting into the CPU cooling fan from the PSU.

 

[trents]

"Actually, the cooler is 3-5mm too high for my case, so I just budget the side on and hold it down to screw it on, so the side of the PC isn't open."

This could cause a problem with pushing the CPU cooler off center so that its base is no longer making good contact with the CPU face.

One easy experiment to try is just taking the case side off and pointing a large household fan into the open case. If temps drop then you have a case ventilation problem.

 

[Over_G]

The cooler should also be reoriented so that its pulling air from the front of the case and exiting to the rear,although it appears your case doesn't have enough room,or a rear chassis fan that pulls air out of the back.

It may get better airflow if the cooler is mounted fan side down so that the PSU fan will pull air out of the case,and not away from the CPU fan.
Thermal paste is directly applied to the heatsink bottom with direct touch heatpipe coolers,with thin lines across the copper pipes.

 

[r14n.sa]

I try this, and my config :
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2440485