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Bluetooth and BIOS

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Is this just a matter of satisfying your curiosity or is there a practical reason you are putting so much energy into this answering this question? I mean is there a reason you must use a bluetooth keyboard to install the OS?
 
Is this just a matter of satisfying your curiosity or is there a practical reason you are putting so much energy into this answering this question? I mean is there a reason you must use a bluetooth keyboard to install the OS?

Yes. I have a bluetooth Keyboard in the mail and I'd kinda like to throw this stupid looking old PS2 keyboard with missing keys from like 20 years ago straight into the trash. And not haul it out of the dump in the future should I need to tinker with the BIOS, trouble shoot, change drives, reinstall windows, "hit ENTER to launch Windows normally" after a crash, or just be able to type my Windows password without the onscreen keyboard before drivers load. If paying more for a motherboard with built in bluetooth will allow this, then it's worth it.

I have a 6700k processor, 3000mhz RAM, just sitting in my room waiting for me and I still haven't bought the motherboard because It's down to 2 choices, one of them has everything I need, the other has everything I need + built in bluetooth but costs more. I''d be willing to pay the extra to have full use of my bluetooth keyboard for every possible function that my old PS2 keyboard could have done.

I know I'm torturing myself and I should just by the cheaper board and use the dongle, knowing that drivers won't load till windows, but at this point I think it's become personal and I'm determined that somebody on the internet is going to answer my question with no ambiguity. :p
 
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If the bluetooth thing does't work go to goodwill and pickup a good used ps2 or usb keyboard for the occasional time you need to change settings in bios or install the OS. At least they don't need batteries.
 
Round 2.

ASUS support Vote Tally

Kala 1 vote: YES

Trace 1 vote: NO

=========

and this conversation went on a little bit longer than the screen shot, I inquired about the drivers loading in time for me to type my windows Login password, and him responding " Ok, you need to install the drivers." So on, so forth.

============

So what is it about Bluetooth that could keep it from functioning without an operating system on the go, but a USB keyboard is fine ? I don't get what prevents them all from having equal functionality. If the motherboard automatically supports USB and PS/2, and has Bluetooth onboard why is Bluetooth so special it will not work outside of an OS ? Obviously this is not a question I would ask any Tech support with an obvious language barrier, I could only imagine the answer I would get, and the length of time it would take to get it.
 

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This from an Ebay seller.

=====================

Hello,

Thank you for your reply.

No problem, we're here to help.

To clarify things, most bluetooth keyboards and mice will include a USB dongle for use. However, you can also use the bluetooth integrated on the motherboard (via the Wifi and Bluetooth 4.2 module).

Devices with Bluetooth wireless technology generally do not work until the operating system is loaded. However, there are some exceptions to this...some devices will work in "dual mode" and start up with 2.4 GHz, and then switch to Bluetooth, so you can use your keyboard and mouse before the operating system is loaded.

If you're happy using a USB dongle, it will automatically use the 2.4 GHz protocol on the USB. You can save a USB slot by not using your USB dongle: only use the dongle when you need to access the BIOS, but use the built-in bluetooth normally.

To recap, if you don't use the dongle:

You will be able to use your bluetooth keyboard to type in your Windows password. But you won't be able to use it to access BIOS (as Windows isn't loaded yet). You will need the dongle to access BIOS.

Aside from your keyboard, bluetooth also can be used for listening to audio with bluetooth enabled headphones as well as communication with bluetooth devices such as your cell phone.

We hope this clears up some confusion for you!

Thank you very much.

Sincere Regards,
MITXPC

===========

Was quite helpful and clarifies the situation, this person displays some knowledge of the subject and so I tend to trust his answer.

Still though, I'm immensely curious why the motherboard can take a wireless keyboard input, but not a bluetooth one.
 
If you look at the bluetooth section in device manager you will see a "stack" driver as well as the main device driver. In addition, bluetooth devices need to be "paired" with the bluetooth transceiver. To work before widows is loaded all that would have to be done via the firmware somehow.
 
If you look at the bluetooth section in device manager you will see a "stack" driver as well as the main device driver. In addition, bluetooth devices need to be "paired" with the bluetooth transceiver. To work before widows is loaded all that would have to be done via the firmware somehow.

Yes. But I would think there is a lot going on behind the scenes with other wireless devices as well and would assume some firmware must be acting in order to allow communication with the motherboard. And Same again for USB., or am I wrong?
 
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You know as much as I do.

The summary from the ebay seller makes good sense to me and I bet it will prove to be the way it is. That is to say, any bluetooth device that will be active in bios will be doing so with a built-in parallel 2.4 ghz band and not not with bluetooth per se. And those will be proprietary devices, not bluetooth universal devices.
 
==Update==

So I've got the bluetooth keyboard and I'm typing this post on it right now. I guess you could say I've got the "Cherry MX Blues" because I'm hating them with a passion if your curious. From my pre-purchase research I was to believe the blue MX keys were moderately higher pressure, but with these things I can barely type a sentence without hitting as many accidental keys as intentional ones because the press is so light, I'm bumping lots of extra keys simply by brushing them with the sides of my fingers and I need to be extremely deliberate with my key strokes. I guess I'll get used to it.

But that's not the important part. As it turns out I can type my Windows password in the logon screen, the IOGear bluetooth 4.0 adapter lights up a couple seconds before the login screen appears, but not during post, so no BIOS.

But the real interesting part is this

From the Keyboards instruction manual.

" Q: After the computer power supply is on, Bluetooth connection selects BIOS or OS.

After pairing through Bluetooth 2.1 adaptor, the key parameters will be input in the adaptor, and the operate BIOS and OS selection menu before OS startup.
If the function is not provided, the Bluetooth adaptor cannot be operated before Windows start up. If necessary, connect USB or other PS/2
keyboard for operation
This part is the function of the adaptor. If you have any questions, please contact with customer service personnel of the adaptor manufacturer.
"
So, if I attempt to interpret this I would think that there exists a Bluetooth adapter that does what one of the previous posters helping me in this thread described of his wireless keyboard, in that the adapter acts as a USB input emulator, or something like that?

This keyboard doesn't come with a bluetooth adapter, and I'm unable to track down any information about such a device on google.
 
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I have an asrock extreme 6 (z97 chipset) mobo.
I just purchased an intel wifi module kit for desktop.

Intel 7260HMWDTX1 PCIe x1 Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 for Desktop.

This is a kit that has a 1/2 height mini PCI-E wifi module that is installed in a low profile pcie x1 add in card. The add in card also has a usb port/patch cable that connects from the x1 pcie card to a usb header on the mobo to enable Bluetooth functions. I am guessing that this specific Bluetooth implementation emulates a usb dongle. The add in card also has antenna wires connecting 7260 module to pigtails for external antennas.

Now what happens if I remove the actual 7260 ac module from that add in pcie x1 card, and install that 1/2 height module directly onto the asrock mini pcie slot and connect 8 inch or 12 inch antenna pigtail from the module to external antennas? Will blue tooth work. (I don't think so)

I think with my specific mobo, I must use the fullsize pcie x1 add in card due to that card having the usb port/patch cable.

I have not received the kit yet, but will be testing this.
I have not found much info on this... I am thinking that some boards have the usb connection for the mini pcie slot imbedded in the chipset.. (BUT I COULD BE WRONG)

Now I also have a Logitech Dinovo Bluetooth keyboard and usb2 dongle installed on an asrock extreme4 mobo. (this is what you guys referred to as imbedded blue tooth on the keyboard.) Once I install the dongle, I can use the keyboard in the bios for the extreme4, but must plug the dongle into a intel usb port. (not a third party usb controlled port.) I think the intel usb drivers mut get loaded at POST time.

I want to use a Bluetooth keyboard without a dongle and leverage the internal Bluetooth functions that are present in the intel 7260 module thru the antennas that are connected to the module. I think that's what you want too...
(but you want full bios control from the Bluetooth keyboard)

I would also like that type of functionality.
(but I don't think my mobo supports it.)

I've seen some Microsoft and logitec keyboards that have no dongles but allow for switching between multi hosts.. (like three)

(A PC, A SMART PHONE, A LAPTOP ETC)

I will get my answer thru testing, but if there is someone out there who can school us on how this works, that would be welcome.
 
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There is a lot of misinformation on this thread.

First of all, it is definitely possible and I know so because I used to have a Microsoft media 7000 keyboard that was bluetooth and still worked in bios. How is this possible? Simple, the bluetooth adapter stayed paired to the keyboard even without an OS and the usb dongle posed as a plain corded keyboard with a HID interface while the bluetooth stack was not loaded yet. I know apple had a keyboard like this too. This is called hid proxy.

Next, bluetooth uses 2.4ghz all the time. It doesn't matter if the radio transceiver is dongle or built in. It will use 2.4ghz all the time.

Also, asking ebay sellers technical questions is stupid. They know nothing and are just shippers in truth. You need to ask the manufacturers directly.

I notice there are some usb dongles that support os's without bluetooth stacks like makerspot using hid mode.

More info: https://www.0xf8.org/2014/02/the-crux-of-finding-a-hid-proxy-capable-usb-bluetooth-adapter/
 
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By a Mac of some kind. They have BT baked into the bios so that it works as soon as the machine powers up.


Her remark about passwords could have referred to passworded bios or the Windows sign in screen before drivers are loaded.
 
Without Bluetooth hardware/firmware on the MB you will need to either use a PS2 KB & mouse
Not necessarily so. It depends on the motherboard. And if really BT (see below) it depends on how the integrated BT is interfaced with the system. If via an internal USB connection (as most are) you should not need to use a PS2 keyboard or mouse. For sure, most chipsets/BIOS firmware has accepted USB keyboard and mouse input for many many years. That is, 10 years or more! And for sure, most BT devices connect via USB (internally or via a dongle).

Chipset and motherboard makers don't expect users to have legacy PS/2 keyboards and mice laying around even though most motherboards still support at least one PS/2 port.

Last, it is easy to confuse wireless keyboards (and mice) with BT keyboards (and mice). While BT is a wireless technology, there are many wireless keyboards and mice that don't use BT, but instead use a different RF signal in the same 2.4GHz band.

FTR, I use wireless keyboards and mice on all 5 computers here that use either Gigabyte, ASUS or MSI motherboards. All let me boot into the BIOS (or Safe Mode) without having to connect a PS/2 keyboard. And the reason that works is because the chipset/BIOS firmware knows how to communicate with the USB ports without any special firmware or drivers. And the RF/BT dongles know how to interface their connected devices to that USB interface.
 
Not necessarily so. It depends on the motherboard. And if really BT (see below) it depends on how the integrated BT is interfaced with the system. If via an internal USB connection (as most are) you should not need to use a PS2 keyboard or mouse. For sure, most chipsets/BIOS firmware has accepted USB keyboard and mouse input for many many years. That is, 10 years or more! And for sure, most BT devices connect via USB (internally or via a dongle).

Chipset and motherboard makers don't expect users to have legacy PS/2 keyboards and mice laying around even though most motherboards still support at least one PS/2 port.

Last, it is easy to confuse wireless keyboards (and mice) with BT keyboards (and mice). While BT is a wireless technology, there are many wireless keyboards and mice that don't use BT, but instead use a different RF signal in the same 2.4GHz band.

FTR, I use wireless keyboards and mice on all 5 computers here that use either Gigabyte, ASUS or MSI motherboards. All let me boot into the BIOS (or Safe Mode) without having to connect a PS/2 keyboard. And the reason that works is because the chipset/BIOS firmware knows how to communicate with the USB ports without any special firmware or drivers. And the RF/BT dongles know how to interface their connected devices to that USB interface.

That's because there is a low level driver built into the firmware for the USB. You would still need specific low level blue tooth drivers to have that work the same way with blue tooth. To just be on the same communication bus as USB is not enough.
 
That's because there is a low level driver built into the firmware for the USB.
Exactly! That's the whole point of the "Universal" Serial Bus. Chipsets/BIOS software knows how to communicate via USB. It is then up to the connected device to also know how to communicate via USB. Point being, PS/2 would not be needed. At least not in theory. But of course, theory and real-world don't always jive.
 
But there is still the issue with blue tooth of the use of various different chipsets for the hardware component. I don't think it is as standardized as USB is. I can buy a BT dongle made by one company and Windows 10 may have native driver for it but not for one made by another company.
 
I don't think it is as standardized as USB is.
The point is, unless there are special features, BT should not need to be standardized beyond what the BT standard already calls for. That is, neither the motherboard, the BIOS should care. They are communicating with USB. After that what matters is the device using BT. And to that - that should not matter either because all keyboards and mice (just like all graphics solutions and monitors) should work at very basic levels at the very initial stages of the HW boot process. Otherwise, no keyboard, mouse, graphics solution or monitor would be of any use with the BIOS Setup Menu or while in Safe Mode.

Windows does not matter because it does not come into play until after POST and the boot drive is hit. And special drivers are only needed then to enable any special features the connected devices may need.
 
But the chipsets still come into play. Apple products initial BT at power on with Apple BT capable hardware such as Mice and Keyboards because it's baked into the firmware. And there are a few third party BT USB dongles that work with Apple products. The rest are not even recognized.
 
But the chipsets still come into play.
Of course they do! I have said from the start and repeatedly, "it depends on the motherboard" - which implies chipsets.

Please note too, I am talking exclusively about keyboards and mice only (not other wireless devices) and that is only because basic keyboard and mouse support is "baked into the firmware" of all chipsets. No special drivers are needed for basic keyboard and mouse I/O.

There really is no point in debating this further. I am not and never did say "all" wireless keyboards and mice "will" work to access the BIOS Setup Menu of every motherboard/chipset. I joined this thread saying "not necessarily so" and "it depends on the motherboard" and I stand by that.

So to anyone wondering if their wireless keyboard will, or won't, try it and see. If it works, great! If not, hopefully your motherboard/chipset will at least recognize a wired USB keyboard. If it does not even recognize a USB keyboard, you will have to keep a PS/2 keyboard handy - assuming your motherboard has PS/2 port - most do, but not all do.

Since USB has NEVER EVER been the reliable, "universal" interface it has always promised to be, I keep a pure PS/2 wired keyboard in the shop, just in case.
 
No offense intended, Bill. It just seemed to me you were saying two different things at the same time in the course of this thread. I'm sure I just misunderstood.
 
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