Building a New rig, my knowledge base is obsolete

[Max47]

I am trying to build a new rig and as I look through newegg, I add up prices and #'s. But it doesn't tell you how these things actually perform in the real world. I haven't really built a rig and followed the market since the radeon 9800 Pro's were hot **** So I have a basic knowledge of the new things out, such as the quad core's, SLI, crossfire, PhysX and what-not. But what I am trying to do is get some suggestions and reccommendations on whats worth getting and whats not.
Overall I am looking for a high/higher end gaming rig as cheap as possible, basically not top of the line but right under it.
Here is what I have looked at so far and my comments for each.


Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Ok, no one has said anything about this, still assuming a good decision for the setup

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
I hope to have some upgradability for maybe dual video cards or dual GPU's for some of the newer stuff coming out later. Also will having only one +12v be an issue? i noticed the 650w has 3 and the 1000w has 2.

ASUS P5Q-E LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
I am hoping they make a 1600 mhz fsb processor I can afford to put in this thing.

Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 Wolfdale 3.33GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
Went with the E8600 to take advantage of E0 revision.

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
Ok so now if I am figuring this up right, Processor 1333/4=333.25 and memory 1000/2=500 so I should have tons of overhead with my processor vs ram.

SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
This version of the 4870 that sapphire makes is supposed to run quiter and cool, not to mention I think the appearance of the card looks better. I think there will most likely be no performance difference.

Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive (bare drive) - OEM
Decided to go with the 150g to cut costs. shouldnt "need" more than that.

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail + XIGMATEK ACK-I7751 Retention Bracket - Retail
Looks like a good deal

Acer P243WAid Black-Silver 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor with HDCP Support 400 cd/m2 3000:1 ACM - Retail
24 inches 1920x1200 I am sure this will be a lovely monitor assuming the pixels aren't DOA and none of them burn out.. Are they making better LCD's these days? Or would I just be better off spending less money in case it does do something dumb on me like that. It is also the most expensive item on my list right now too

Down to a Total price of $1564.90

I know this is a tall order to comment on, but any knowledge is appreciated, thanks for the input I will keep updating as we go along!

 

[DavidJa]

well first off that board uses ddr2 not ddr3. PhysX cards also didnt take off at all so i'd drop that off.
the best bang for buck videocard is possibly the 4870.
for the powersupply i'd go with a CORSAIR 750TX or PC Power & Cooling S75QB.
you could also look at an i7 system if you would go with that budget.

 

[jayfella]

I do believe physX was taken over by Nvidia, who now implement it into every card in and above the 8 series.

Also, that motherboard is crossfire compliant, not SLI, so you might want to get a 4870 or 4870x2 instead to take advantage of that. And in my opinion, crossfire is better than SLI - but to be honest - your gonna run into a problem or two with SLI or crossfire anyway - Crossfire/SLI almost always has problems with at least one or 2 games.

If you could stretch to the E8600 im sure you wouldnt be disappointed. With the saving from not getting the physX card - it should'nt dent your wallet anymore than your original budget.

 

[Is_907]

You can't go wrong with Antec. In fact, I'd like to put in a plug for their earthwatts line. I've got a 500watt earthwatts in my SonataIII and love it.
DavidJa is right; don't bother with the PhysX card. In fact, the newer nVidia cards do some cool PhysX stuff anyway (new drivers have those cool PhysX demos, heh.)

NewEgg has some really good Acer widescreen LCDs that are priced competitively. I bought a 19" ws LCD from them for $149 and for a while it was just $129.

Dropping down to the needed DDR2 will save you a few pennies, as will dropping off the PhysX card, allowing more breathing room for a good monitor.

You should seriously consider getting a good cpu cooler now. I used the stock cooler on my Q6600 for almost a month and hated every minute of it. Bought a Xigmatek HDT-S1283 recently (with a nice retention bracket) and love it. Had an almost instant drop in load temps of 20C.
"The best" cooler, from what I've read, is either a TRUE (Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme), or a Tuniq Tower 120. My Xigmatek is a TRUE clone.

 

[ou_phidelt]

You are a bit mixed up on the FSB vs. memory speed. Intel's FSB is "quad pumped" so you need to divide it by four which will get you 33325Mhz. Now DDR2 is "double data rate" so take that number and multiply it by two and get 667Mhz which is the speed of memory you would need to run 1:1 with your processor at stock speed, not 1333Mhz DDR3. You could get a 4GB kit of G.Skill DDR21000 for $65 and run 1:1 with the E8400 up to 4.5Ghz, which it won't likely hit. DDR3 is still to expensive for a 775 system. Most high speed kits out not don't look like they will transfer to i7 so that bonus is out as well.

Physix was bought out by Nvidia and the tech is included with the last series of drivers so the card is pointless these days.

The best value today IMHO is a P45 motherboard, I like the P5Q-E, matched with two 4850's in crossfire. The performance you get for your dollar is hard to beat. Depending on the resolution you intend to run you may not even need two. The P45 generally overclock better than the X38/X48 motherboards. The downside to them is that when in crossfire the GPU lanes drop from 16x to 8x. This usually isn't a problem but it can be if you game at very high resolutions. From what I have seen so far it isn;t an issue up to 1900*1200.

For a PSU Corsair is currently the big boy on the block. Thier modular PSU's are very top notch and the TX series isn't far behind. A 620HX would suite you fine up two a 4870X2, I doubt you are going to be going for two of them.

The rest of it looks good. You are right on track with the CPU but it would be worthwhile to try and get an E0 revision. With newegg it is hit or miss unless you want to spend the money for an E8600. You can get a guaranteed E0 for a few dollars more from tankguys.com

IS gives very good advise on the cooler. The S1283 can't be beat for the money but the TRUE is the top dog. The S1283 work fine for particularly since you are sticking with a dual, those 45nm chips run pretty darn cool. Just don't forget the retention bracket, push pins are evil.

In short:
E8400
P5Q-E
Corsair 620HX (room to grow)
Asus 4850 x2
Cooler Master CM690 Very similiar to the 900 but considerably cheaper.
Xigamatek S1283 w/ retention kit
G.Skill PC8000 2x2gb
150Gb Velocirapor OS and Programs
640GB WD Black Edition Data and backup

Comes out to $1250 or $1130AR

Just some thoughts for you to consider.

 

[Max47]

bump for update to rig, thanks for all the input.. just like to see people agreeing on the same stuff thats on the market, gives a warm and fuzy when your not familiar with it yourself and don't have the money to experiment

 

[Max47]

bump, any advice? have new quote's to the components, thanks everyone for your input

 

[ou_phidelt]

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
Ok so now if I am figuring this up right, Processor 1333/4=333.25 and memory 1000/2=500 so I should have tons of overhead with my processor vs ram. Also is there any difference performance difference in having 2 or 4 sticks of memory?
The more sticks you add the bigger the chance they will give you trouble OCing. 4 sticks puts more stress on your northbridge than 2. Certainly go with 2GB sticks. I would start with 4GB's and if you feel you still need more then go to 8GB. Skip the 1BG sticks, not worth it at this point IMHO.
SAPPHIRE 100257L Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail X2
I am scared to switch to ATI for some reason, but I suppose if crossfire is doing good and they are back in the game with good cards and drivers I dont see anything wrong with this card. What would these cards be comparable to on the Nvidia side of the board? Another thought would be going with a single card with Dual GPU's maybe? I Don't know what the performance is vs crossfire/SLI.
If you want to go with a 4870X2 go for it, you will just be spending a bit more money for the same performance, but the convenience of a single card, but you will have the option of adding another card down the road. One of the positives of crossfire over SLI is that the cards can be different. If down the road you want to a 4900 series card to the X2 you can.

 

[Max47]

Thanks for all your help ou_phidelt, I think I may end up getting a single 4870 I think I am going a bit overboard with the price, but man I love building these things bad a**, ya know?

Anyhow a few other things that have been on my mind,
Is that motherboard going to be "Ideal" for the newer things coming out a year or so out?

Do u guys know anything about dead pixel guarantee's with Acer? I didnt see anything on newegg about it, I have seen some manufacture's offer diff type's of guarnatee's. I will just get a CRT if I have too, I hate pixels getting stuck/dead with a passion.

Also trying to save money I have switched from the Corsair 1000w to the 750w model, it has a little less amperage and only 1 +12v, I shouldnt need more than one right??

 

[DavidJa]

^^ well intel has just released their new cpu's which are no longer socket 775 so all of their new stuff wont be compatible anymore.
but you will still have the upgrade option of dropping in a quad so its not so bad

 

[Max47]

^^ well intel has just released their new cpu's which are no longer socket 775 so all of their new stuff wont be compatible anymore.
but you will still have the upgrade option of dropping in a quad so its not so bad

Oh, well I didn't even know that.. What are they? I might look into something for those. I am still in Iraq right now so I will prolly be holding off until the end of Jan 09 to be actually making the purchase.

 

[White_Pawn]

Oh, well I didn't even know that.. What are they? I might look into something for those. I am still in Iraq right now so I will prolly be holding off until the end of Jan 09 to be actually making the purchase.

if you are waiting until jan anyway, then just wait another 3ish months, can you should be able to sink your teeth into the new nehalem or deneb cpus and possible the 49xx gpus and or GTX270 or GTX290 gpus.

 

[ou_phidelt]

Oh, well I didn't even know that.. What are they? I might look into something for those. I am still in Iraq right now so I will prolly be holding off until the end of Jan 09 to be actually making the purchase.

The official name is i7 but is also known by the development name nehalem. The socket is 1366. It is a completely new design with an onboard memory controller, so no more northbridge. FSB is gone as well. It is a whole new ballgame. They are DDR3 only and the motherboards are going to start out at $300 and go up from there. Bottom CPU is going to be around $300. Don't count on getting much change from $1000 for CPU/motherboard/memory. Of course the motherboard and memory prices will likely come down by the time you want to buy. At the end of January time frame I would no longer consider a 775 build, i7 or bust at that point.

 

[CleanSteve]

I am going to disagree with the crowd on the i7. By January prices on i7 systems will still be really high. You're looking at a $500 premium or so for not a whole lot more performance.

At that point i7's are only for the most committed enthusiasts or people who have money to burn. If you are either of those then you should definitely get an i7 system when you get back to the US.

But if budget is an issue then buying a socket 775 system will still be a great alternative, and likely prices will have fallen on the CPUs by that point. Getting a nice quad (like a 9550) or even a dual (like the 8500) will still have lots of runway and save you major cash. Intel might even have new versions of those chips out by then to push prices down even more.

And then, you can save cash for your next upgrade -- and likely an OC'd 8500 with a huge GPU ugrade late in 2008 will still be faster than an i7 system with an older GPU.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Max47]

yea u guys are probably right about prices being high for the new stuff coming out.. I don't know if I will be able to afford any of that. As of right now I am going to plan on sticking to 775 and at the end of January re-evaluate my decision and see what would be best to go with.