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Computer Freezing and need to change memory

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OldBiker

New Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2022
New to the board here and need some advice. I am a very old man that quit working on computer hardware over 20 years ago.

I have a system that was built for me last year that has been giving me problems constantly. The place that built it can not fix it, so I am trying to do it myself.



I work this system real hard and I have two problems with it. One is that I am a writer and after 3 to 4 hours of writing, I can not highlight a single word in my writing program, Internet Browser or even when using a terminal. When I try to highlight a single word or letter, it will end up highlighting an entire paragraph or page, instead of simply one word. When I try to click on a tab on my browser, it will open a new blank window instead of a tab. I don’t expect help here for that problem. I am simply explaining it as a symptom of one of the problems this machine give me.



The main area I need your help with is the freezing. In Linux, I have some “magic keys” that I can normally use to save data and reboot a computer when it is acting up, however when this thing does a hard freeze, the only thing I can do is a hard power down. Even the reset button on my case will not reboot it when it freezes.



  • My MB is a 2379-A PRO (MS-7B48)
  • The shop replaced my original AMD processor with a Intel© Core™ i7-8700K CPU @ 3.70GHz × 6 CPU,
  • I recently replaced my power supply with an EVGA 750W Gold and that allowed me to work for a week without a freeze, but now it has frozen 3 times in 2 days.
  • I was originally running 3 storage devices, but I removed (2) 2 TB internal HDDs and (1) 2 Tb NAND chip. So now I am only running (1) new 2 Tb, HDD as a test.
  • I replaced the HDD Sata cable with a new one connected to a different plug on the MB
  • I unhooked my floppy drive and DVD.
  • I run multiple monitors/TV sets and use a NVIDIA Corporation GM107 [GeForce GTX 750 Ti] that I plan on replacing.
  • I have 2 other systems in my office that both run the same version of Linux that I run, and neither of them have the problems freezing, however I do run some software that the other systems do not use.
  • I conducted a fresh boot last night and started a program that will “index” all the words in every doc on my HDD, so I can search them. I shut down my browser and even the monitors when I went to bed, but left the computer running that index. It ended up freezing within an hour after I went to bed.
  • I just started checking the bios for data and discovered the shop installed two separate types of memory chips. This is where I am now, as I want to replace the memory. But I need some input on what to use and how to set it.


After looking at the bios, I discovered this board is set for a Dram frequency of 2133 MHz, however they installed 2-32 gig Crucial Technology chips at 2933 MHz and 2-8 gig Kingston chips at 3200 Mhz.



As I was looking at new memory, there was a very limited choice that uses 2133 MHz and back in ancient times, we had to manually change “jumper” settings on a board in order to change the frequency.



I know that on the older boards, we could change the settings for the Memory to accommodate different frequency memory chips just like it would Processor speeds, however I haven’t found out if this bios has that option or not and even if it does, I don’t want to go too high on a Dram setting, so if anyone could update me a bit on what I should buy, and how to set it, I would appreciate it.



Once I get the new memory, I may also need a little advice on some of the other settings for the new style bios.



I did notice this MB only accepts a total of 64 Gig memory, so I will most likely end up buying a new MB in the near future, however I want to correct this problem first, before I get involved with building a new system from scratch.



Thanks in advance for any advice
 
Solution
I also strongly advise you to slow your roll. 2 x 32 GB may not work on this board. (I also noticed that you changed your current specs from 2x32 to 2x16.) The CPU should be able to take it but the board says max of 64GB across the 4 slots which would be 4 x 16GB. I did not see either way in the manual. I also would advise that you look at the qualified list based on your reliance for this machine. I will say that even with the fastest RAM that this board will take, it will not affect your day trading. Your internet speed will always be your bottle neck. By the time you read this you will probably already have purchased your RAM and I hope it works out for you.

Speed is really not your goal with the trading. Living out in the...

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
I would go to the store and ask them why they mixed 2x8GB with 2x32GB and if they are so smart then they should set it at stable settings and give you back a fully stable PC.
The motherboard probably supports 128GB at a low clock like 2133-2666, when it boots with 2x32GB but mixing different IC and 8GB with 32GB modules is not the best idea as they have way too different timing tables. It may work but probably this is the main reason why you can't make it run stable.
Remove 2x8GB kit, install 2x32GB in 2/4 memory slots counting from the CPU side, enter BIOS, enable XMP and check if it works. If it doesn't work then set manually DDR4-2666 CL19-19-19 1.35V and check if it works.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Motherboard appears to be an msi z370 a pro.

The base speed is 2133 with a maximum (not overclocked) speed of 2667. That platform (z370) with your cpu (8700k) should happily run 32-64gb at 2133-2667.

How much RAM do you need? As a writer, I dont expect that requirement to be high...id look at 2x8gb (or 2x16gb) ddr4 3200.

But yeah, take out smaller kit, put the other sticks in the right slots and test it like woomack said. :)
 
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OldBiker

New Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2022
I want to start by thanking Woomack and EarthDog that helped advise my on my memory problem.



I had that system running an Indexing program, that I didn’t want to disturb, so I left it running for a couple of days in order to document and sort through around 1 million documents that were on that HDD.



It finally completed the indexing sometime during the night, so I was able to open a new Open Office page and document some of the information from my screen about the index results, then shut the computer down.



I removed the (2) 8 gig Kingston memory chips and moved my (2) 32 Gig chips into slot 2 & 4 according to the markings on the MB.



I was unable to activate or enable XMP, so I tried to use manual settings.



I made 3 changes in the settings.



1: I changed the DRAM frequency from AUTO to DDR4-2666 (20x100.00x1.33)

2: I changed the Memory Try It: from (Disabled) to DDR4-2666 CL16

3: I changed the AIDA64 Memory Boost: from (Auto) to (Enabled)



Other displays in the Bios indicated additional changes made that I did not knowingly change.

They were:



1: My DRAM voltage was changed from 1.200V (AUTO) to (1.350)

2: My Command Rate was changed from (Auto) to (2)

3: tCl changed from 15:(Auto) to (16)

4: tRCD changed from 15:(Auto) to (16)

5: tRP changed from 15:(Auto) to (16)

6: tRAS changed from 36:(Auto) to (36)



When I saved the changes, it booted into Linux Mint 20, ( my normal operating system) and I discovered that it froze as soon as I tried to open a folder.



I then received a message that “Cinnamon” ( the name of my desktop) had crashed.



  • I tried to reboot Linux without shutting down the computer and received a message that “ A problem has been detected with your thumbnail cache.


  • At that point it locked up hard and I was unable to do anything so I had to conduct a hard shut down.


When I turned the system back on, I went in and changed the bios settings:



1: I changed the DRAM Frequency from DDR4-2666 (20x100.00x1.33) to AUTO.

2: I changed the Memory Try It: from DDR4-2666 CL16 to [Game Try it Limit]

3: I changed the AIDA64 Memory Boost: from (Enabled) to (Auto)



I also noticed the following settings changed automatically.



  • 1: My DRAM voltage was changed from 1.344V: 1.[350] to (AUTO)
  • Command Rate 2: [2] to [Auto]
  • tCL from 16: [16] to [Auto]
  • tRCD changed from 16: [16] to [Auto]
  • tRP changed from 16: [16] to [Auto]
  • tRAS changed from 36: [36] to [Auto]


  • I then rebooted into Linux Mint, but before the desktop could load, I noticed an error message flash across one of my monitors, but did not catch the error message.


  1. Finally it came up with a black screen is if my “terminal” had been activated (similar to a dos screen in Windows) with the message: Reg manual ESCK.
  2. The next message, still in the black terminal mode, stated I need to “M-Flash my bios.
  3. I got another message relating to a “Nouveau” which relates to my video driver and a buss FAULT.
  4. “still in the black terminal screen, it gave me a message from the BusyBox program with a list of codes I could use for ssh.
  5. Finally I received a message stating the root system on my HDD required a manual fsck or file check and repair program.


At that point, I just shut the system down and installed one of my other HHD’s in it, just to see if it would boot up. And it did. So I am back on line now and will work on my other HDD later. So at least I can check back with this site and see if anyone has any ideas as to if I should make any additional changes to my DRAM settings now or wait until I get my new memory.





BTW, in addition to using this system for writing, (as in a book containing over 3,000 words per chapter, x 11 chapters so far and not even half way done, I also write for the 30+ websites I own and design, including the graphics as well as hosting thousands and thousands of historical photographs. That is why I upgrade to a new system every year. I need as much cache and memory as I can get.



Thanks for reading and for your assistance.



PS. I originally wrote this out in a file on my computer and was getting ready to copy it so that I could post it on this website, my computer froze on me and I had to conduct a hard shutdown. So apparently there is still some type of problem.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Did it work with the 2x32gb resetting the system to optimized defaults? I know the memory is slower (2133) and the timings higher, but we just need the system to work right now. I wouldnt have jumped right in to tweaking until we knew they worked there.

It would be neat to see a screenshot of using all that ram!
 
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OldBiker

New Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2022
EarthDog, Since you asked for images, I am posting multiple images of my bios from yesterday, before and after making changes.



Today, I spent several hours writing and reorganizing files on this old HDD. At 8:30am central time, I closed all my docs and opened the Internet to do some research, when it froze on me and I had to conduct a hard shut down.



I started it back up and spent several hours conducting research on building a server, then I transferred about 40 photos from my camera to my computer, including editing a hand full of them. All that went fine.



When I quit working with the images, I logged onto this website and started writing a response, when my system froze again, causing me to conduct another hard shutdown.



So after restarting it again, I wrote this post in a doc and am hoping I can stay on line long enough to post it here.

20220222_062045a.jpg
20220222_060211a.jpg
20220222_060003a.jpg

20220222_055714a.jpg

20220222_055027a.jpg

20220222_055416a.jpg

I hope these images help.
Thanks for the responses.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
FYI, you can save images of your BIOS to a USB stick, typically by pressing F12. You can put up clear images instead of fuzzy screencaps :p. I'd like to see the top of a BIOS page where it actually names the board too...

Anyway, your images are of the BIOS and don't show what I was looking for. To be clear, I wanted to see RAM use in Windows. Like so...

1645637386503.png

...I just want to make sure you actually need all of the RAM you say you do. If you don't as I suspect, that makes things quite a bit easier.

So...did it work with the 2x32gb resetting the system to optimized defaults? What about with 2x8GB (the other sticks) and doing the same thing? I see BIOS screenshots and it LOOKS like that's what you did.. but I would like a confirmation you actually reset the system to optimized defaults (I think that's F6 when in the BIOS?), saved, rebooted, and tried without setting anything manually. Will you also confirm the sticks are in the proper slots according to your manual?

Please post screenshots of CPUz? Specifically, the Mainboard, Memory, and SPD tabs (two images of this one with each stick 'active').
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Don't use mem try it. It's designed for overclocking for lower-capacity modules and modifies sub-timings and other settings which are hidden under auto. Simply disable it and use the manual option (DRAM frequency option only) or auto.
 

don256us

Uber Folding Senior
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
1st, according to MSI, this board will only take 64GB of RAM. How it worked with the additional 16 GB I don't know.
2nd, slower clocked RAM should be in the "main" slots with the faster RAM in the secondary slots. However, in this case, ditch the extra RAM.
3rd, set the BIOS to default instead of tweaking memory settings. Just run in default mode.
4th, if not in default mode, I would set the "Try it" setting to disabled.
5th, if none of that works, ditch the one set of RAM and try the other set. OR run memtest.
6th, I usually think of computer lock ups to be HDD related. I see that you switched drives, cables and ports so that is most liekly not it. That said, run only one drive and see if that changes things. I've seen this issue with secondary drives wanting to behave poorly.

7th, Make sure your CPU is not over heating. Clean any dust and monitor temps.

If just using two sticks, A2 and B2 is correct according to the manual which is slots 2/4 just as stated above. Page 5 & 15 & 27 of the manual. Link below. In looking at the manual, it does say 64 GB max over 4 slots. I did not see anything about the max amount per slot. I would think 16 GB per slot based on the max 64 GB divided by 4 slots = 16 GB

I would set BIOS to default and run the two 8 GB sticks as a test.

 
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OldBiker

New Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2022
Hi ALL,
Thanks for all of the replies. I am shutting down for tonight, but first thing in the morning, I am heading into a nearby city to pick up some new ram.

I had (2) 8 gig chips of Kingston and (2) 16 gig chips of another brand.
Tomorrow I will be getting (2) 32 gig chips, not sure what brand, so if anyone can advise me what speed I can get, I would appreciate it.

Once I get the new Ram, that will be the ONLY ram I will be using.

Thank You
I will check back once I am ready to install it.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Feels premature, this purchase, with so many unanswered questions and things you can test. Slow down...

If you insist.. get something on the QVL list (mobo website has memory compatibility list) that you can find locally. Not sure where you're at, but you can look up Microcenter or Fry's (they still around?). I'd stick to no faster than 3200... maybe 2666 for the 2x32GB.
 
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OldBiker

New Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2022
Thank you EarthDog, for the recommended speeds. The previous settings had the 2x16 set at 2933 and the 2x8 set at 3200 MHz, so I will see what is available in stock when I get to the store.

As far as my location, I live way out in the country and only get into town once a week and that is usually for Dr. Appointments. The only option I have available today, will either be a Best Buy or the local shop that built this mess to begin with. So it will have to be BestBuy, because I will no longer support the local shop.

As far as what I need, I also use my computer to watch and make trades on the stock markets. So with the live streaming of several screens, where every fraction of a second counts, I need to make sure my system is up and running.

Especially now since the current world events can stop the delivery of Neon needed for our chip makers.

Anyway, during these times, every hour I spend unavailable, when the market is open, can cost me much more money then the memory will cost.

Besides, since I also design and use a variety of databases on my machine, (sometimes multiple spread sheets and databases combined) I would rather have more memory then I might need in the future, as opposed to not having enough.

Thanks and I will check back tonight after I get back home.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
will either be a Best Buy or the local shop that built this mess to begin with. So it will have to be BestBuy, because I will no longer support the local shop
I feel you need to go (or order online) where you can get something off the QVL list and not just go by speeds. Your goal is to get this working and something on that memory compatibility list gives you the best chance. Otherwise there's a greater possibility to start over from scratch (if they don't work - I don't think the memory sticks are the issue right now.. but testing seems to have stopped).

Also, I'd make sure the BIOS is updated on the board (it isn't I could read that from your BIOS screencaps) which still has no official name (please post a BIOS screenshot showing the board name when you have a chance. It's critical to confirm this 100%.

As far as what I need, I also use my computer to watch and make trades on the stock markets. So with the live streaming of several screens, where every fraction of a second counts, I need to make sure my system is up and running.
This is nothing. I do this daily... stream twitch, have a dozen or two tabs open simultaneously and working on writing (I review PC hardware). In fact, my image from above is exactly that...and I use ~9GB. You understand that RAM wouldn't really help your fractions of a second, right? You're better off with faster network speeds if that's the case.

Anyway, during these times, every hour I spend unavailable, when the market is open, can cost me much more money then the memory will cost.
Surely. But you're shooting yourself in the foot by not taking the time to test and answer questions and, what feels like, willy nilly buying more RAM. Put simply, the more RAM you have, the more difficult it can be to stabilize it... so if you don't need as much, you also save yourself some hassle trying to get them to work which yields increased availability. ;)

Besides, since I also design and use a variety of databases on my machine, (sometimes multiple spread sheets and databases combined) I would rather have more memory then I might need in the future, as opposed to not having enough.
Again, I'd like to see how much you're actually using. I think you'd be surprised how little it is (or maybe I'll be surprised how much, lol). Unused RAM is just wasted money (though have more than you need is good, overkill isn't). You should have a clue how much you actually use and figure it out instead of simply throwing money at it.

So... where we're at.........

1. Confirm Mobo SKU (is it MSI Z370 Pro?).
2. Confirm you are putting RAM in the proper slots (picture plz).
3. Update BIOS to the latest (see #1 and confirm first).
4. Try your existing 2x8GB and 2x32GB kits separately ON AUTO (everything, not a try it... etc). Set Optimized Defaults (F6?, save, reboot, try) in the BIOS. Report back.
5. If that doesn't work, add some System Agent/SOC voltage over stock (we'll figure that value out) and try again.
6. If that doesn't work, try your new sticks.
7. Check to see how much RAM you actually use...

I hope at least one of your new sets works since you're taking (so much) time to go get new ones (and not thoroughly testing the old)!!! :)

Safe travels and keep us posted!
 

don256us

Uber Folding Senior
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
I also strongly advise you to slow your roll. 2 x 32 GB may not work on this board. (I also noticed that you changed your current specs from 2x32 to 2x16.) The CPU should be able to take it but the board says max of 64GB across the 4 slots which would be 4 x 16GB. I did not see either way in the manual. I also would advise that you look at the qualified list based on your reliance for this machine. I will say that even with the fastest RAM that this board will take, it will not affect your day trading. Your internet speed will always be your bottle neck. By the time you read this you will probably already have purchased your RAM and I hope it works out for you.

Speed is really not your goal with the trading. Living out in the country means that you are using either satelite internet or cell phone most likely but even if you have cable or phone internet, your speeds will be too slow for the speed of the CPU or RAM to make any difference.

I suggest changing your goal for this machine to be stability #1 for trading and speed as #2 for indexing.
 
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OldBiker

New Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2022
New Memory



I got my new memory today. Best Buy did not have (2) 32 gig chips in stock, so I ended up with (4) Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 16 Gig chips.



By using all 4 Ram slots with matching memory chips, it allowed me to set them using the XMP in the bios.

MSI_SnapShot_00.jpg



I got them into my system in before the stock market closed and was able to buy some great stocks on sale, due to the Russia invasion.



About ½ hour after the market closed, around 3:30 to 3:45, my computer froze again.



I removed my video card and one of my monitors, so I am now running off the MB video. I also took out my WiFi adapter and replaced it with one I removed from one of our other office computers as a test. I made sure the WiFi adapter that I installed was inserted into an entirely different slot in the MB, just in case there was a problem with the other slot.



I also unhooked my network cable and printer cable, just to eliminate any shorts or other problems in external connections.



Now I plan on working on the system for the next few days and see how long it will take it to freeze again.



If this doesn’t cure the problem, I will replace the MB and CPU and if that doesn’t work, I guess I will buy another case.

Whatever it takes, I am determined to find the source of the problem and will eventually end up with an entirely new system.



Thanks for all of your help and suggestions.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Whatever it takes, I am determined to find the source of the problem and will eventually end up with an entirely new system.
You're just listlessly poking at things. Just know... it doesn't have to be this way (read: a debacle of a testing process). All it takes is a little patience and listening (if only humoring) the volunteers who took the time to answer the questions you asked.

I'm not entirely sure what else to say at this point friend. Good luck!!
 
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OldBiker

New Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2022
To don256us.

Thank you for your reply. Having used computers for 50 years, I know that memory will not make it faster. Speed is not my goal. I am looking for and demand reliability.




I get a brand new computer every year. Not for the speed of internet data, but for the speed backing up data, finding data blocks on various internal and external drives.




I have over 30 hard drives in my home that contain stories and images from WWII vets, individuals that traveled behind covered wagons to their new homes and many other individuals that have passed away over the many years since I started my non-profit.

While all of that information has been transferred to external and internal storage drives as well as printed copies plus being stored on multiple servers, in order to preserve it, I and others in my office need to pull copies of that data up on a regular basis.




As such, we use programs that index every word within each written document, and the time it takes to index over 1 million documents per hard drive can take days. So the faster processors, the larger cache and the faster and/or larger capacity storage devices, can all work together to get the jobs done faster.




Sometimes more memory can also help. Other times, I simply look for the fastest solution to a problem because my time on this earth is very limited and I am trying to get as much accomplished as possible with what little I have left.




I realize this has nothing to due with the speed of memory, it simply explains my goals and the fact that I am simply trying to get as much accomplished as possible, with each day I have left.




Every person that has responded on this board has added to my knowledge base and I want to thank all of you.




I have not ignored any information and have documented all of it for future use, either by myself or the volunteers that work with me. So, along those lines I want to thank everyone here.




I will keep you all posted once I discover the answer to this puzzle, in hopes the solution will help someone down the road.
 
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OldBiker

New Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2022
Woomack, I would like to take a moment to thank you for your advice. While I appreciate the input I received from others, it was your suggestion of enabling the XMP settings and a post from EarthDog confirming that I could use a speed of 3200, that was the most helpful to me, as this time.



While I know I may not be totally out of the woods yet, I have been able to move 4 websites from one server to a larger server today, without any problems. That means I had to download DB files as well as multiple folders containing thousands of images. All if it went read smooth, without a freeze or glitch of any type.



I was also able to transfer files from the current temporary hd I have been using, to one of the other computers on my local network without any problems and to “hibernate” my system last night without it crashing or locking up last night.



In addition to that, I currently have 46 tabs open on my browser right now, due to research I have been conducting on other projects and have not had any glitches or problems.



Bottom line, I realize it is too early to know how many problems I have cured or isolated, but at least I know I have taken care of the mismatched memory. And for that, I thank all of you.



I still intend on building a brand new system from the ground up, as soon as I resolve any other problems that show up and know this one will work long term.



I also will retain all of the other suggestions made in the post as well as other areas of this forum, in case I need them in the future.



So, again, I thank you and all the others for your assistance, and hopefully I will know within a week to a month, if I can trust this unit enough to begin on a new updated system.