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condensation question

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Is_907

Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Location
Keller, TX
Let's think hypothetically for a minute:

Let's say that we have a water cooling block that is capable of getting down to -7 C. Would this, in reality, cause a problem with condensation (the heat from the processor, etc) or would there be no ill effect?

~Is
 

surlyjoe

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2000
Location
far west
anytime anything is substantially colder than the surrounding air, it will draw the moisture out of the air.. AKA -condensation
 

Toysrme

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Did he just ask that or did I blank out from sniffing aceton and blowing snot bubbles!?!?!?
 
OP
Is_907

Is_907

Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Location
Keller, TX
ok, that's what I thought... a friend of mine says he saw a review of a water cooling setup that put the block down to -7 C.
I don't see this as being to likely... but hey, I now understand a bit more about water blocks ;)
 
Last edited:

[OC]This

Disabled
Joined
Apr 30, 2002
Location
mercury
as mentioned by two intelligent senior OCers, yah, Condensation is very very easy to get if you'll be doing wata'chillin'..


as for the temp conversion, i use thermometer LOL!!
 

Tuhran

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Location
GA, USA
Unless you are using a chiller, or evaporative cooling (e.g., a bong), watercooling is limited by your ambient temperature.
All the cooling is done by fans moving room air.
Now if you include another method, like a chiller, into the loop to bring temps below ambient, condensation becomes an issue.
Depending...
Another Google project for you: "dewpoint".
 

DJ Switch

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2002
Location
Littleton
looks like you guys didnt pay attention in earth science/weather class in highschool. Condensation is onyl formed when the temperature of any object becomes less than the daily LOCAL
DEWPOINT.
The dewpoint is based on the current humidity in your area, so fi its rainin those are bad days, because it will be higher. If its hot sunny and dry those are good days (for condensation that is), because the realtive humidity will be down low. I know this because I have a water chiller in my WC' setup (fridge), and I have my pump and radiator in there, and the fridge under no load maxed out at -16`C, but will never reach that with things in it.

Knowning this you would like to know how to beat it correct? Look up a thing called silica gel, or any humidity abosrbant material, because no humidity=no water vapor=no condensation. I plan to line my case with the stuff strapped in with velcro. Then when it becomse saturated you take it out and squeeze the water out of it and stick it back in. Simple (or somewhat). You can also look for small dehumidifiers (electric 12v) to use within the case, but I have yet to find something like this. Heres a look at my setup:
DSC00679.JPG

DSC00677.JPG
 

Toysrme

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
DJ forget the silica gel.

It'd never work...

Remember even a brand name computer case with one entry fan can take in more humid air than every side panel lined in silica gel could absorb.

Also even a basic case can blow 99.999% of the humidity striaght past any packs you have an onto equipment and anywhere else in the case accessable to air.

If you're hell bent on trying it. I would suggest not using sneaker sized packs. Buy you some from like a camera shop that will come in a brass case that you can roast in an oven at 400 for an hour.

Silica gel is only intended for air that's still.

Good to know you know how dropping tempature increases relative humidity until it hits the dew point and the air can hold no more water vapor DJ, but it's been covered a hundred times and at this point, it's a given.

;)

Stick around though, it's nice to have sharp kids!
 

DJ Switch

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2002
Location
Littleton
However what you also have to understand is the point of a water cooled system is to eliminate (or d*** near) all fans, thus still air. I understand not everyones neighbor is rich enough to have a spare fridge sitting in storage, however if someone does/did have an external radiator (which is smart might I add), then you would have nearly a still air case (with the exception of the PSU). So I guess its the flip of a coin between still air external radiator, or moving air internal radiaitor, but anyone with temps good enough to reversely exceed the dew point also has an external radiator. So maybe looking at things as a big picture is the way to go in this topic. Thanks for the heated discussion, theres nothing like talking complex english to someone who understands it.:D :)
 

rogerdugans

Linux challenged Senior, not that it stops me...
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
Location
Corner of No and Where
I am not fully conversant with silica and dessicant stuff or dewpoints either, but I am pretty experienced with screwing around with water cooling ;)

I ran for a year or so with an external radiator and learned that even then a case with little or no ventilation will perform poorly overall.
There are many other components in a computer that need to be cooled to some degree and if you have no case airflow you will limit your cooling results.

The advantages I found with an external radiator are that you can have EXTREMELY quiet fans for the case and keep the radiator someplace where noise is more muffled.

Controlling airflow this way (low airflow) is even more tricky than in a high flow system: what little air movement is there MUST be moving in an effective, constant path to get the best results.

I have seen people use dessicants as an adjunct to other condensation methods but I have not seen anyone use it as the sole means of keeping a pc dry.
 

[OC]This

Disabled
Joined
Apr 30, 2002
Location
mercury
i.... perfectly agree with the gentleman rogerdugans. I'll second that..

DJ Switch thinks he's knows a lot.... ;)


I don't use no fan no nothin'... i don't need one. LOL
 

DJ Switch

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2002
Location
Littleton
Well after doing various readings throughout the net . . . I can fairly say I understand the dewpoint-condensation principal more-so than someone who is iggnorant to the fact that if ur runnin and external radiator, then u wont have any fans . . . or at least not enough to move the air aroud so much to were the silica gel could not absorb it. Unless you have another solution for the man, then I see no point in arguing the validity of my idea.

Kyle
 
OP
Is_907

Is_907

Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Location
Keller, TX
DJ Switch said:
Well after doing various readings throughout the net . . . I can fairly say I understand the dewpoint-condensation principal more-so than someone who is iggnorant to the fact that if ur runnin and external radiator, then u wont have any fans . . . or at least not enough to move the air aroud so much to were the silica gel could not absorb it. Unless you have another solution for the man, then I see no point in arguing the validity of my idea.

Kyle

heh, just beause someone does not have a "better solution" that doesn't mean they can't see flaws in your solution to a problem. ;)

anyhow, my friend (the guy who actually started the thread) and I both agree water cooling sounds like more of a hassle than it's worth =)
 

rogerdugans

Linux challenged Senior, not that it stops me...
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
Location
Corner of No and Where
There are many alternatives- no easy solution though.

Most commonly used with peltiers and water chillers is a combination of conformal spray coating (insulating the back of the mobo and sometimes selected areas of the front), neoprene insulation (waterblock and socket ) and pipe/tube insulation for the coolant lines.

The idea behind this is to insulate all areas where the extremely cooled materials (tubing, block or mobo) are exposed to air.

If the air can't reach it, no condensation forms.
I have seen people use dessicant materials of many different forms to supplement all the insulation but I have never seen anyone use silica INSTEAD of insulation.

I am NOT saying that it cannot work- although I am highly doubtful- I do not know anywhere near enough about dessicants and dewpoint to make a statement like that.

But I would love to see a write up of someone trying to use a chilled block with only dessicant in the case to prevent condensation. ;)

Edit: to add a note about water cooling-

A standard water cooling setup will NOT attain temps of -7c.
To get temps in that range you need pelts chillers or some other form of refrigeration, period.
The best non-chilled systems are bongs and on a good day they cab get a few degrees below ambient at best.