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Cooling based on Delta-T

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OddsCrazyStuff

Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2016
I found this article: http://www.overclockers.com/guide-deltat-water-cooling/

With that in mind, so should this be able to handle 1200W of heat (6950X+3x 980Ti, all OC), with minimal Delta-T
image.png

782mm wide, 476mm deep, 593mm high.
Thats 4x 560mm rads and 8x 420mm rads.

Or I'm I totally wrong?

Parts:
Aerocool DS 14cm: http://www.aerocool.com.tw/en/cooling/dead-silent/ds-14cm
Hardwarelabs SR2 560 MP: http://www.hardwarelabs.com/sr2/products/black-ice-sr2-mp/sr2-560-mp
Hardwarelabs SR2 420 MP: http://www.hardwarelabs.com/sr2/products/black-ice-sr2-mp/sr2-420-mp
 

Supertrucker

Way Too Jealous Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Location
Southern California
4 of the sr2 420s would provide excellent performance even with the fans running under 1000rpm. 8 of them would be beyond overkill. 8 of them and 4 560s is a straight up waste of money. And if you havent heard them in person yet, i strongly urge you to buy just one of those aerocool shark fans. They look neat, but the spec page is a joke. I have two of them and they are stupid loud at 12v, I ended up pulling mine from my system and they are sitting in my fan box now.


Edit: going by that graph you posted, the sr1 360mm could do 286w at 11c with the fans at just 600rpm. Given the sr2 420mm has more surface area 300w at 10c with 600rpm fans is a conservative estimation. That means with 4 sr2 420mm rads you get a 10c delta. Which means with 8 sr2 420mm rads you get a 5c delta. 5c means almost nothing to your overclock. particularly for your gpus. My 980ti doesnt care if its at 35c or 60c as far as stability goes. Adding the 4 560mm sr2's on top of that, when you are already at 5c, will get you mabye 1-1.5 c more, because of diminishing returns. If you are paying normal retail price for this gear, you are talking about like 1500 dollars worth of gear (beyond the first 4 sr2s) for a 6-7 degree temp drop.
 
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OddsCrazyStuff

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Jan 6, 2016
4 of the sr2 420s would provide excellent performance even with the fans running under 1000rpm. 8 of them would be beyond overkill. 8 of them and 4 560s is a straight up waste of money. And if you havent heard them in person yet, i strongly urge you to buy just one of those aerocool shark fans. They look neat, but the spec page is a joke. I have two of them and they are stupid loud at 12v, I ended up pulling mine from my system and they are sitting in my fan box now.
Its not the shark fans I want, but the dead silent once. All reviews says they are silent, but it might be worth testing.

That amount of radiator space is based on the numbers from the article.
8x 420mm is roughly enough to handle 1200W of heat with the DS fan at less then 5 Delta-T.
So guess the 4x 560mm is way too much for that goal, but nice to have the option as the 1200W is based on estimates of that the OC parts will handle.
 

Supertrucker

Way Too Jealous Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Location
Southern California
Yeah i dont know why i typed shark, but i have the dead silent ones. That 14 decibal claim has to be from like 10 to 15 feet away. They are stupid crazy loud. I have the black and white ones because they matched my black and white build perfectly. I would not reccomend them at even 10 dollars, nevermind the 20 they cost. For that price you could get something good from nidec or noctua.
 
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OddsCrazyStuff

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Jan 6, 2016
Yeah i dont know why i typed shark, but i have the dead silent ones. That 14 decibal claim has to be from like 10 to 15 feet away. They are stupid crazy loud. I have the black and white ones because they matched my black and white build perfectly. I would not reccomend them at even 10 dollars, nevermind the 20 they cost. For that price you could get something good from nidec or noctua.
Strange that no reviewers mention it. Nether professionals nor customers.
 

GTXJackBauer

Water Cooling Senior Member, #TEAMH20HNO
Joined
May 22, 2011
Location
USA
If you want silent premium fans, check out AP-53s, EK Vardars, Noiseblocker eLoops B12s to name a few, PWM or voltage is up to you but PWM is usually the way to go. You'll just have to get a nice PWM controller like the Aquaero 6 to control them all and than some. Can also control pumps etc, but would advise on going with the AQ pumps for that matter.
 

Supertrucker

Way Too Jealous Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Location
Southern California
Well, to be fair i am picky about how quiet my computer is. I dont even let my gentle typhoons (1450prpm) run at 100%, and my pump is capped at 35%pwm. Ten years ago when i was using a vantec tornado 92mm fan i would have called the dead silent fans silent. That thing sounded like a vacuum cleaner.
 
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OddsCrazyStuff

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Jan 6, 2016
If you want silent premium fans, check out AP-53s, EK Vardars, Noiseblocker eLoops B12s to name a few, PWM or voltage is up to you but PWM is usually the way to go. You'll just have to get a nice PWM controller like the Aquaero 6 to control them all and than some. Can also control pumps etc, but would advise on going with the AQ pumps for that matter.
I got the EK Vardar F4-120ER atm, its silent but the PWM is a nightmare to deal with when you pass a certain number of fans.
Half of my current 8 way splitters dont give a PWM signal.
Which is why I want to go with non PWM, as that is easier to deal with.

When it comes to fans, so would I like to stay below 20dB, given the numbers of fans I have.
And none of the Noiceblocker 140mm have decent static pressure at that noise level (above 1 mmH2O).

I will have already planned to get an Aquaero, just need to figure out the rest first.
 

GTXJackBauer

Water Cooling Senior Member, #TEAMH20HNO
Joined
May 22, 2011
Location
USA
Half of my current 8 way splitters dont give a PWM signal.

I know exactly what you mean. I had the same issue but the reason being was because I used too many darn splitters and the PWM signal gets too weak. Make sure you're running the least amount of splits and lengths.

I will have already planned to get an Aquaero, just need to figure out the rest first.

Oh, that's a whole other learning curve. Great piece of hardware and complicated at times. You won't be disappointed once you figure it out. I sure know I enjoy mine and still learning.
 
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OddsCrazyStuff

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Jan 6, 2016
I know exactly what you mean. I had the same issue but the reason being was because I used too many darn splitters and the PWM signal gets too weak. Make sure you're running the least amount of splits and lengths.

Oh, that's a whole other learning curve. Great piece of hardware and complicated at times. You won't be disappointed once you figure it out. I sure know I enjoy mine and still learning.
Yeah, I think 4 way is the most you can go. Meaning that I would need a more then 1 Aquaero for PWM, but can get away with just 1 if I go 3-pin as I can use the poweradjust to expand the number of fans.

Its a reason I'm also at the Aquacomputer forum. Aquaero and the matching component dont seem common enough for info to be available by searching.
 
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OddsCrazyStuff

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Jan 6, 2016
8 420 rads?! Complete madness. You'll hit diminishing returns no matter what you throw at it.

You could go with half of that and still hit diminishing.
I base that on the article.
At a Delta-T of 5 or less, so do I have about 150W per radiator, depending on the fan.
And with around 1200W of heat, so do I need 8x 420mm radiators to get 150W per.
 

GTXJackBauer

Water Cooling Senior Member, #TEAMH20HNO
Joined
May 22, 2011
Location
USA
I would do this. Go only 4 480 rads because the 120 fans still rule when it comes to static pressure and silence. Put them in P/P so you're able to run them at lower speed and still get great performance in deltas.

Grab a AQ 6 because its backwards compatible and have the luxury of always going PWM if needed or you can mix and match each channel. Add as many poweradjusts as you need.

Grab a dual pump setup from AQ and a flow meter, D5s or DDC. D5s are quieter for the record. Make sure which versions you want, aquabus etc.

Add a bunch of different water temp and air temp probes in different parts of the loop to monitor your flow and deltas with in margin of error since you'll have multiple readings and can average them or calibrate them if needed.
 
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OddsCrazyStuff

Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2016
I would do this. Go only 4 480 rads because the 120 fans still rule when it comes to static pressure and silence. Put them in P/P so you're able to run them at lower speed and still get great performance in deltas.

Grab a AQ 6 because its backwards compatible and have the luxury of always going PWM if needed or you can mix and match each channel. Add as many poweradjusts as you need.

Grab a dual pump setup from AQ and a flow meter, D5s or DDC. D5s are quieter for the record. Make sure which versions you want, aquabus etc.

Add a bunch of different water temp and air temp probes in different parts of the loop to monitor your flow and deltas with in margin of error since you'll have multiple readings and can average them or calibrate them if needed.

Yeah, it seems that 140mm fans are worse of then 120mm fans, if you want the best.
Guess my setup can work with 480mm instead, plus that way so can I test 4 in my current case before going custom.
Now I just need to dig through the fan section again and I should have a good setup.
 

GTXJackBauer

Water Cooling Senior Member, #TEAMH20HNO
Joined
May 22, 2011
Location
USA
I should accurately say, dual pumps in serial*. You'll need all that head pressure that is possible.
 

ProgramGuy

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Location
Romeoville, IL
Yeah, it seems that 140mm fans are worse of then 120mm fans, if you want the best.
Guess my setup can work with 480mm instead, plus that way so can I test 4 in my current case before going custom.
Now I just need to dig through the fan section again and I should have a good setup.

With all these radiators, what case are you using?
 

Conumdrum

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
You want quiet. Every fan adds a bit of DB. It's not linear. 2 fans are louder than one fan of the same.

Your case can hold a standard 3 pin 30 watt per channel fan controller. 4 fans per channel in parallel, use just one RPM wire off each 4 fan circuit. Adjust the fans to you're liking. Get a MCP50x dual series pump setup, use one RPM wire to sense the speed signal from one pump. Connect to the CPU header.

Save $700 by not worrying about monitoring water temps, crazy sensors and ambient toilet water temps. The temps the CPU and GPU are at under load tests is all that matters. That is IT.

Enjoy.

Figure 100 watts per 120x1 of rad, you will have 1600 watts of cooling at low RPM settings. There is NO reason to chase the last 5C for watercooling. You keep these newer Intel CPU's under 70C and the GPU's under 70C you overclock as far as ANY ambient system can do. You want more overclock, then we are talking sub-ambient.

Theoretically, say you are at a 10C delta-T running a CPU AND GPU stress program. Under normal gaming use it will be much less, so lets say you are at 7C DT.

You want to drop it another 3.5 C, you need to have 8 of the 480 rads.

And every fan adds to the total db no matter the db with 4 rads. Sure you can drop the fans even lower, but the cost and absolute sillyness of this astounds me.

Build it with just 3 480x4 and see if you need more, you can always add more rads.
 
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OddsCrazyStuff

Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2016
You want quiet. Every fan adds a bit of DB. It's not linear. 2 fans are louder than one fan of the same.

Your case can hold a standard 3 pin 30 watt per channel fan controller. 4 fans per channel in parallel, use just one RPM wire off each 4 fan circuit. Adjust the fans to you're liking. Get a MCP50x dual series pump setup, use one RPM wire to sense the speed signal from one pump. Connect to the CPU header.

Save $700 by not worrying about monitoring water temps, crazy sensors and ambient toilet water temps. The temps the CPU and GPU are at under load tests is all that matters. That is IT.

Enjoy.

Figure 100 watts per 120x1 of rad, you will have 1600 watts of cooling at low RPM settings. There is NO reason to chase the last 5C for watercooling. You keep these newer Intel CPU's under 70C and the GPU's under 70C you overclock as far as ANY ambient system can do. You want more overclock, then we are talking sub-ambient.

Theoretically, say you are at a 10C delta-T running a CPU AND GPU stress program. Under normal gaming use it will be much less, so lets say you are at 7C DT.

You want to drop it another 3.5 C, you need to have 8 of the 480 rads.

And every fan adds to the total db no matter the db with 4 rads. Sure you can drop the fans even lower, but the cost and absolute sillyness of this astounds me.

Build it with just 3 480x4 and see if you need more, you can always add more rads.

Yeah, if I go with the right fans, so do I only need the Aquaero to run the pumps as they are PWM based. Motherboards seems to suck at it.

I have room for 3x 480mm and 2x 240mm, since I want to have the pumps right under the reservoirs this time (they are in front now, mounted on a radiator).
So I will stick with that for now.

Then it comes back to this, which fan is silent at 100% speed, since I wont be controlling the speed?