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Copyright Infingement[caught]
- Thread starter ps2cho
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2005
- Location
- Central PA
A friend of mine at college got caught d/l a PC game. I've never approved of his behavior. I feel if a game is good I'll support the developer. Anywho, they contacted the college which in turn contacted him. Luckily the college protected him and just made him go over the network policy again in a private meeting. Slap on the wrist for what could have been expulsion, fines, or worse. I don't know if he's stopped downloading games yet.
ps2cho ... you always can get sued. Is it likely? Given that the content in question is Naruto, I really doubt it.
In the fansub community, it is generally known that the Naruto episodes airing on Cartoon Network are of lower quality (cuts and edits and such). Besides, I'd say read the manga
.
There was also a statement from the company that licensed to distribute Naruto in North America (4kids) that they will not pursue the fansubbers. So, I really doubt you would get sued, sicne most companies go for the fansubbers. I also hope that your brother was getting an Aone release, their subs are really nice even though I don't like their use of avi and "hardsubs."
In the fansub community, it is generally known that the Naruto episodes airing on Cartoon Network are of lower quality (cuts and edits and such). Besides, I'd say read the manga
.There was also a statement from the company that licensed to distribute Naruto in North America (4kids) that they will not pursue the fansubbers. So, I really doubt you would get sued, sicne most companies go for the fansubbers. I also hope that your brother was getting an Aone release, their subs are really nice even though I don't like their use of avi and "hardsubs."
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2005
- Location
- Idaho
Another point to consider, back in the early 80's i believe, when VCR's were first coming to our homes, they had a big law suit, i don't know which one. But the gist of it is this, if they air it on tv you can have a copy of it. Like the simpsons, who is to say that i didn't tape all of the simpsons episodes from tv? if they air it on public tv they basically give up the copyright and anyone can have it without paying for it. As for movies if you own a movie you can copy it and lend out that copy to friends or relatives. It is your legal right to make backup copies of your movies. Then again i have yet to see a case where a single downloader has gotten anything more than a slap on the wrist "don't do it again!"
- Joined
- May 7, 2004
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
I'll fill you in, seeing as I work for an ISP
Basically, someone invokes the DMCA, and can prove the IP, etc.
They don't know who the person is, associated with the IP address. They want us to release the name for the IP address, so they can sue you. We refuse to release that info, and handle it internally.
Thus, we send you a letter for this. As I explained, they should be taken seriously, as we basically covered you from being sued. We could just as well give out your name, and you would have lawsuit. But we don't like the DMCA any more than the next guy, and we send the letter as a middle ground, between you getting sued directly, and us getting sued for doing nothing.
On our end, if you get a second letter, you get turned off. You have to have nice talk with our Security Resolution Team to get services back on.
Most people don't realize this, but when you think about it, we (the ISP) are acting in your defense, just warning you and keeping those DMCA dorks at bay from suing you or going after you directly. We just ask you nicely to decist, because we don't want things to escalate between us and the DMCA dorks. They CAN, and WILL, go above us at times, and we have no option but to comply and hand over the names. this only happens if you continuously get caught or noticed, they will refuse to let us handle it ourselves, and be able to defend you.
Normally they are just "requesting" the information via lawyers, we refuse and handle it ourselves. Sometimes, though, it does escalate to a suit or court order, and then we hand over the info, and you get sued directly.
So be happy we send you a letter. We could just let you get sued.
EDIT: And yes, I have dealt with some who have had this escalated to a lawsuit. I just have to tell them to find a lawyer, you're being sued. Don't fool yourself, it does happen. Just make me happy and don't get sued.
Basically, someone invokes the DMCA, and can prove the IP, etc.
They don't know who the person is, associated with the IP address. They want us to release the name for the IP address, so they can sue you. We refuse to release that info, and handle it internally.
Thus, we send you a letter for this. As I explained, they should be taken seriously, as we basically covered you from being sued. We could just as well give out your name, and you would have lawsuit. But we don't like the DMCA any more than the next guy, and we send the letter as a middle ground, between you getting sued directly, and us getting sued for doing nothing.
On our end, if you get a second letter, you get turned off. You have to have nice talk with our Security Resolution Team to get services back on.
Most people don't realize this, but when you think about it, we (the ISP) are acting in your defense, just warning you and keeping those DMCA dorks at bay from suing you or going after you directly. We just ask you nicely to decist, because we don't want things to escalate between us and the DMCA dorks. They CAN, and WILL, go above us at times, and we have no option but to comply and hand over the names. this only happens if you continuously get caught or noticed, they will refuse to let us handle it ourselves, and be able to defend you.
Normally they are just "requesting" the information via lawyers, we refuse and handle it ourselves. Sometimes, though, it does escalate to a suit or court order, and then we hand over the info, and you get sued directly.
So be happy we send you a letter. We could just let you get sued.
EDIT: And yes, I have dealt with some who have had this escalated to a lawsuit. I just have to tell them to find a lawyer, you're being sued. Don't fool yourself, it does happen. Just make me happy and don't get sued.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2003
Canada did just pass a law where ISP's HAVE to give out information to requesting parties now, so basically your privacy rights in that contract you sign with any ISP in Canada doesnt mean crap!
I would of claimed that my computer was hacked into option C - if you say the file was deleted you JUST admitted to illegally downloading content and they have you on record for that.
I would of claimed that my computer was hacked into option C - if you say the file was deleted you JUST admitted to illegally downloading content and they have you on record for that.
the problem is, is that the IP can be spoofed as you know. Also, what stops anyone from creating a fake timestamp and just asking for every IP address that you own?
the only evidence that the copyright holder can have is circumstantial evidence at best. Is circumstantial evidence allowed in civil court?
what you may do, is have whoever owns the account, take a polygraph test (a take a video, and get the proper documentation/certification from the person who administers it) ... that is acceptable proof in a civil case (not in criminal from what I know, in NYS).
the only evidence that the copyright holder can have is circumstantial evidence at best. Is circumstantial evidence allowed in civil court?
what you may do, is have whoever owns the account, take a polygraph test (a take a video, and get the proper documentation/certification from the person who administers it) ... that is acceptable proof in a civil case (not in criminal from what I know, in NYS).
UlicBelouve said:
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
Probably BS. What kind of serious legal problem would be sent to you in EMAIL? It's like an email supposedly from the FBI talking about your child porn collection. Yes, the FBI finds out a sick ******* has child porn, so they send him an EMAIL, god spammers are MORONS. BTW I was just using that as an example. There are tons of spam emails that are supposed to scare people. Anything arriving to you in email is either BS spam or not serious.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
UlicBelouve said:
Ah the USA's system is different. In Canada it is illegal for ISPs to divulge personal information to the police unless there is PROOF of illegal activity (ie the illegal files have been accessed from the suspect's hard drive).
Which basically means the squealer would have to steal the person's computer and bring it to the cops.
Any "proof" over the internet can be implanted or modified to make someone look guilty, which is why it isn't considered proof. Which is also why ISPs CAN NOT give out people's names or addresses. God Bless Canada
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Location
- I can see walmart, 44906
its possible that he downloaded a torrent from a bogus site that is intended to sting people. so bsically they try to go fter everyone who dls the torrent from it. but the ISP tells them to **** off and sends you a happy little email.
and even if your IP addy changes, they likely keep a log of that IP your modem had at what times, when it piced up the dhcp lease, when it dropped it, all kinds of stuff.
Recently we dealt with an identity theft case in conjunction with our local PD. turned out a kids grandpa died, so grandma wasnt keeping too close track of the CC bill, so he managed to sneek in $80 a month in porn sites for 8 months.
it started that the po's got the sign up times and IP addys from the porn sites, then they came to us with the addresses and times, have us look up who had that ip at that time, it comes back with a username that was logged in (this is dialup, BTW) and we then look them up in our accounting dbase, and see who it was. it was on the kids familys comp, and when the papers were in front of him he broke down and confessed.
Another thing, if you're considering identity theft, dont. it ****ed me over, i can pretty much forget about getting a job at a datacenter or similar facility, caus a background check will come back with identity theft (stole credit card #) and it was used on comp so its even worse. so dont do it it'll cause huge problems for you later, not to mention the DH time and probation.
and even if your IP addy changes, they likely keep a log of that IP your modem had at what times, when it piced up the dhcp lease, when it dropped it, all kinds of stuff.
Recently we dealt with an identity theft case in conjunction with our local PD. turned out a kids grandpa died, so grandma wasnt keeping too close track of the CC bill, so he managed to sneek in $80 a month in porn sites for 8 months.
it started that the po's got the sign up times and IP addys from the porn sites, then they came to us with the addresses and times, have us look up who had that ip at that time, it comes back with a username that was logged in (this is dialup, BTW) and we then look them up in our accounting dbase, and see who it was. it was on the kids familys comp, and when the papers were in front of him he broke down and confessed.
Another thing, if you're considering identity theft, dont. it ****ed me over, i can pretty much forget about getting a job at a datacenter or similar facility, caus a background check will come back with identity theft (stole credit card #) and it was used on comp so its even worse. so dont do it it'll cause huge problems for you later, not to mention the DH time and probation.
- Joined
- May 7, 2004
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
Just a side note that people haven't caught. I said letter. Not e-mail. This is an overnight letter, first-class, that gets sent out. At least that's how it is for us.
E-mail is far too unprofessional for dealing with things like that. four4875 has it right, you normally get caught in a sting. They are even setting up their own torrent sites, etc. So you donload from the people trying to sue you, you give them some good evidence, or at leas enough to pacify the minds of white-haired judges that can't figure out how to check their e-mail.
That's the problem. Most of the judiciary have no clue all the details. You just need enough to convince SOME judge to do a court order, etc. They don't care if the IP was spoofed, if you can pass a polygraph, etc. They just want to scare everyone into falling in line.
As I said, I don't agree with it. But we, as an ISP, have to at least react to the DMCA schmucks. And we don't readily hand over the info, at all. We have a lot of legal requests we are still just fighting over the release of info. But a court order, etc, we have to comply with. I'm not talking some dorky lawyer yells at us and we hand it over.
And usually, if it comes to a court order, they have enough evidence anyways to GET the court order, so it's pretty serious then.
E-mail is far too unprofessional for dealing with things like that. four4875 has it right, you normally get caught in a sting. They are even setting up their own torrent sites, etc. So you donload from the people trying to sue you, you give them some good evidence, or at leas enough to pacify the minds of white-haired judges that can't figure out how to check their e-mail.
That's the problem. Most of the judiciary have no clue all the details. You just need enough to convince SOME judge to do a court order, etc. They don't care if the IP was spoofed, if you can pass a polygraph, etc. They just want to scare everyone into falling in line.
As I said, I don't agree with it. But we, as an ISP, have to at least react to the DMCA schmucks. And we don't readily hand over the info, at all. We have a lot of legal requests we are still just fighting over the release of info. But a court order, etc, we have to comply with. I'm not talking some dorky lawyer yells at us and we hand it over.
And usually, if it comes to a court order, they have enough evidence anyways to GET the court order, so it's pretty serious then.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2003
- Location
- Phoenix. YOUR HAIR IS GOOD TO EAT
It's all just scare tactics. Remember the letters people were getting ~1.5 years ago from the RIAA for the 'lawsuits?' lmao
My friend got one tore it up.
My friend got one tore it up.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2005
If your ISP is Cox, which mine is, they just found a trigger on the torrent port. Bot sent you a email. It's not the downloading that triggers these, but Uploads. Cox absolutly hates Upstream bandwidth being used.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2003
K15 said:Which basically means the squealer would have to steal the person's computer and bring it to the cops.
Any "proof" over the internet can be implanted or modified to make someone look guilty, which is why it isn't considered proof. Which is also why ISPs CAN NOT give out people's names or addresses. God Bless Canada
Might want to read up - they changed the laws - ISP's now MUST give over the information if there is some thought someone could be doing illeal activities, this happened a few months back
and IP's can be spoofd to some degree - you can go through a anonymous proxy but even those systems have logs of connections and YES they can all be traced back to YOUR computer and your modems MAC address which can not be altered
flamerail
Disabled
- Joined
- May 5, 2005
Is it even possible for them to know what your downloading.. i mean its just a bunch of parts and pieces coming from all over to u... in 1 and 0... i dont see how the isp can tell what the name of it is... 
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2001
- Location
- Iowa
flamerail said:Is it even possible for them to know what your downloading.. i mean its just a bunch of parts and pieces coming from all over to u... in 1 and 0... i dont see how the isp can tell what the name of it is...
Yes, an ISP can see EXACTLY what any of their customers is doing at anytime if they wanted to. Fact is most don't care or have the resources to be constantly looking at a customers usage.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2003
^^^ exactly - all data that goes to your PC goes through their systems first, many many times.
