Corsair 800D Water Cooling Help/Suggestions

[Skalm]

Alright, so this is the setup that I am currently thinking about. I do not want to mod my case if at all possible.
I even have an aversion to drilling a fill port in the top of the case.

(Revised 11/25/2010)

Case: Corsair 800D
Radiator: Black Ice GTX 360 Xtreme
CPU Block: EK Supreme HF Nickel + Acetal
GPU Block: Swiftech Full Coverage Block or EK Full Coverage Block (Have not decided yet)
Chipset/Mostfet Block: N/A (Will be a future upgrade)
Reservoir: EK-MultiOption RES X2 - 250 Advanced
Pump: Swiftech MCP35X 12v PWM Controlled Water Pump
Fittings: TFC Compression 1/2" ID 3/4" OD - Silver
Tubing: PrimoFlex PRO LRT 1/2"ID 3/4"OD - Black (5 Feet)
Fan Controller: Lamptron 30W - 4 Channel Fan Controller (FC-5V2)
Fan Filter: DEMCiflex Triple 120mm Magnetic Dust / Fan Filter (Placed on top of Case)
Fans (x3): SanAce H1011 120x38mm in a Push Config (Exhaust or Intake? Have not decided yet)
Screws: M4 x 45mm Radiator Mount Hex Socket Cap Screws - Black w/Rubber Grommets (To Protect top of Case)
Fluid: Distilled Water + Silver Kill Coil + Pt Nuke
In-line Temp Sensor: Do I Need One?
TIM:Indigo Xtreme ETI

Rough Total: $600 + Tax/Shipping (Not Counting the GPU Block)
*All Parts/Prices from FrozenCPU


Any kind of input would be awesome, I have never done a 'Custom' build, the only WC I ever had, was this old External Water Cooling Unit 'Corsair Hyrdocool 200' (Big Black Box with a handle) from back in the early 2000s.

 

[Bijiont]

So my questions would be:
Would I be able to have the CPU/VGA/Chipset/Mosfet Blocks in the same loop using a 120x3 Rad?

I see you are wanting to OC as well, I would say no. . . I run a 800D case as well and had a CPU/GPU on a 3x140MM RAD for a while and temps were "ok" but anything over 4Ghz was pushing it under full load on a 1090T.

In terms of Intel chips maybe someone with more experience there can chime in but if I took the same loop and added an AMD I personally would want more RAD.

Everything else looks fine just doing a fast look over but honestly I would wait for someone off the benching team to pop in like Conumdrum, that guy knows his stuff.

 

[Conumdrum]

Bijiont pretty much says it well. He's got an even larger rad than yours and has difficulty. He's got a very hot card, equal to your next upgrade you mention.

Your rad can handle the heat your planning. It's a very good rad 'IF' you run the types of fans made for it. You'll need SIX Fans like this. This thread I link to here is very informative. You really need to learn (forgive me if you do already) the relationship between different rads and the fans they use for the 'sweet spot'.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4639883&postcount=253
You can buy these here:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/deaf12recveh.html
Another link I think you should spend some time with.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6489396&postcount=3

Don't buy any rad or fans till you got a good idea. The rest of your list at a quick glance is pretty good.
You have xx to cool, you need xx cooling. That can be done with a high FPI rad and screaming fans, or more rad and less obtrusive niose. Looking at a 'normal' well designed loop with consideration to your ears and taking into account your overclocking, you want a 120x3 and a 120x2 to cool your rig. Or a massive 140x4 rad. You really want low noise, even more raddage dude.

You can hang a rad off the back if you decide to get another rad. I would, unless you like 6 screaming banshees overpowering any normal life while you game or fold or etc.

 

[Skalm]

OK, so I decided to not go with the Chipset/Mosfet Block for now (Maybe in the future when I upgrade my MoBo). I want to cool the CPU/GPU and would prefer my computer to not sound like a jet taking off.
So my best bet, would be to get a 120x2 and stick that into the loop too yes? Would the pump be able to handle the 2nd RAD in the loop?

If I went with a 2nd RAD, would I be able to use the current fans I have chosen? And just do a Push or Pull on each RAD?
Would it be better to switch to a Black Ice GT Stealth 120x3 and 120x2? Instead of the GTX Xtreme version? Or maybe the GTX Xtreme 120x3 and the GT Stealth 120x2?
Should I consider making two separate loops. One for the GPU and one for the CPU (CPU Loop would get the chipset/mosfet block eventually)?
I would prefer to not have to run a Push/Pull on the RAD, and if I wanted to not have to do that, I would basically need to go with the 2nd 120x2 RAD? That way I could use quieter fans, and still achieve good performance?
I am also planning on putting shrouds on the fans, to help remove the 'dead spot' created by the center of the fan. (To compensate for not having mega fans)
Also, is it better to have the top Rad an exhaust or an intake? If I made it an exhaust, I believe my case would suffer from 'negative' pressure and cause my case to suck up alot of dust.

 

[Conumdrum]

Read up on the radiators.

 

[Bijiont]

Pretty much what Conumdrum said, you have some reading to do.

Another link that I found interesting / good when I was first looking up water cooling.

http://skinneelabs.com/triplesv2.html

You want to make sure you get the right RAD Fan combo otherwise it won't work well.

 

[Skalm]

Well I am reading the stuff by Skinnee, and on the 1500+ RPM range, the GTX 360 seems to outperform the other radiators. I was reading the stuff about 10c Delta and 5c Delta, and I have no clue what that means. I know it means the difference between ambient air temp and the loops temp. The smaller the delta the better, but I don't know how I should read that, for performance. e.g at 10c Delta, the GTX dissipates 1164 watts, at 2800 RPM but at 5c Delta, it does 582 watts at 2800 RPM. I don't understand, wouldn't the watts it dissipates, be the same, at that RPM?


Edit: I am reading the Guide to Delta from one of your links. I am being able to understand how the heat dissipation works. According to one of the links, my GPU creates ~240 Watts and my CPU is ~250 Watts. So taking those 2 into account, thats ~500 Watts. If I find the 500 Watts on the graph, I can see XX Fan at XX RPM will put me at XX Delta. So I am starting to understand, I can choose a fan, based on the Delta I would want. This way, I can pick a fan, to get a higher Delta in exchange for a quieter fan. Or I can go with the louder fan, for a lower delta. If I go with the Scythe Ultra Kaze fan (120x35mm) at ~2800RPM I can hit below 5c Delta, at ~2800 RPM, with 500watts of heat/energy being created. This is with just 3 fans in a Pull Config. I have read though, that the GTX is a 4pass, and has a Hot and Cold side, and choosing one side for your fans over the other, can affect temps slightly. What I still do not know though, is Pull better than Push? Do I want to have the top rad be an intake or an exhaust? (Pull in/Push out or Pull Out/Push Out?) I do think that I will go with only 3 fans though, to somewhat control the noise levels. But I think that I do know what kind of fans I need to be looking at (2500-3000 RPM Range) for max performance. Next I need to find a high rpm/cfm fan, that when slowed down with the fan controller, will not completely suck at cooling the rad when dialed down.

 

[m0r7if3r]

check out the delta 1212she's, martin just put up a review, if you don't need ultra-silence, they're the best damn 120*38's I've seen.

 

[Bijiont]

What I still do not know though, is Pull better than Push?

I have seen Push vs Pull debated till people are blue in the face. So I will just say what I do and you can take that as you will, I suggest getting more input as well on that topic. I Push room ambient air in and pull hot out (6 fans total on one RAD). If you have to choose one or the other again it depends on the RAD and what it is designed to do.

If you push from your case like what the 800D does for the top mount RAD your ambient temps are going to be a little higher due to semi poor ventillation (1-2°c maybe). I did some moding to correct that so my case stays at ambient but an out of the box 800D has a hard time imo.

 

[Conumdrum]

Well I am reading the stuff by Skinnee, and on the 1500+ RPM range, the GTX 360 seems to outperform the other radiators. I was reading the stuff about 10c Delta and 5c Delta, and I have no clue what that means. I know it means the difference between ambient air temp and the loops temp. The smaller the delta the better, but I don't know how I should read that, for performance. e.g at 10c Delta, the GTX dissipates 1164 watts, at 2800 RPM but at 5c Delta, it does 582 watts at 2800 RPM. I don't understand, wouldn't the watts it dissipates, be the same, at that RPM?

The better the cooling, the lower the water temp in relation to air temps through the rad. In fact, if cooling is soo poor, the DT will never settle down and water temps will climb to the point of your CPU/GPU shutting down.

DT is simply the effectiveness of your cooling. The lower the DT, the lower the water temps passing over your parts, thus better performance.

DT can be changed by 2 major things. The size of the radiators and the type of fans. For example, most of us watercool for performance at low noise levels, impossible with air cooled heatsinks. So we have larger than needed rads, rads designed for lower speed fans for a quiet rig.

Some are deaf already LOL and don't mind the constant droning of fans.

1500 RPM for many is too high. Is for me.

Edit: I am reading the Guide to Delta from one of your links. I am being able to understand how the heat dissipation works. According to one of the links, my GPU creates ~240 Watts and my CPU is ~250 Watts. So taking those 2 into account, thats ~500 Watts. If I find the 500 Watts on the graph, I can see XX Fan at XX RPM will put me at XX Delta. So I am starting to understand, I can choose a fan, based on the Delta I would want. This way, I can pick a fan, to get a higher Delta in exchange for a quieter fan. Or I can go with the louder fan, for a lower delta. If I go with the Scythe Ultra Kaze fan (120x35mm) at ~2800RPM I can hit below 5c Delta, at ~2800 RPM, with 500watts of heat/energy being created. This is with just 3 fans in a Pull Config. I have read though, that the GTX is a 4pass, and has a Hot and Cold side, and choosing one side for your fans over the other, can affect temps slightly. What I still do not know though, is Pull better than Push? Do I want to have the top rad be an intake or an exhaust? (Pull in/Push out or Pull Out/Push Out?) I do think that I will go with only 3 fans though, to somewhat control the noise levels. But I think that I do know what kind of fans I need to be looking at (2500-3000 RPM Range) for max performance. Next I need to find a high rpm/cfm fan, that when slowed down with the fan controller, will not completely suck at cooling the rad when dialed down.

Dude, 2500-3000 RPM will never, even when turned down be close to a good noise level. Never. Your stuck on this one brand of rad. Please look at XSPC, Thermochill, and Swiftech just to name a few. Look at thier DT at xx watts with XX quiet fans.

 

[Bijiont]

I didn't notice it until Conumdrum said it but you mentioned the GTX RAD which is good but look at what it requires High/CFM which means a crap ton of fan noise.

Yes, I run two GTX RADs as well however I turn my fans down when I am not hard on my system. Benching, Gaming at max settings and so forth I turn them all up for the extra performance.

You can only imagine how loud 12 1000RPM fans pushing 63CFM can get.

 

[Conumdrum]

I didn't notice it until Conumdrum said it but you mentioned the GTX RAD which is good but look at what it requires High/CFM which means a crap ton of fan noise.

Yes, I run two GTX RADs as well however I turn my fans down when I am not hard on my system. Benching, Gaming at max settings and so forth I turn them all up for the extra performance.

You can only imagine how loud 12 1000RPM fans pushing 63CFM can get.

Depends what he wants. I try to say, with a word of caution, once you buy it it yours. It can be very expensive to replace rads and fans if you realize it's loud..... And thats the only choice really.


Choose your purchase smartly, it's a ton of cash for really little benefit, it's more of a hobby tinkering thing. I really like my rig, few see it, but it does me perfect and quiet. 1020 RPM on the GPU rad, 970 RPM on the CPU rad. Temps are wayy low idle, way low at testing loads. And quiet.

 

[Skalm]

I do realize that I can go with 2 Rad's with a lower FPI, which will require less CFM/Static Pressure fans. Thus achieving near silent operation with relatively good cooling. But, I do not really want to have an external mounted radiator, and currently I do not want to perform the 120x2 Rad Conversion (Taking out the lower HDD Bay). So for the time being, the only option for me, until I do decide to do the modification, is to have a single 120x3 at the top of my case. And to cool this I realize, that I will need more fan, to get good performance. I am just afraid that, a 120x3 with a lower FPI using quieter (and thus less CFM) will not provide adequate cooling, for a CPU/GPU.

 

[thobel]

I do realize that I can go with 2 Rad's with a lower FPI, which will require less CFM/Static Pressure fans. Thus achieving near silent operation with relatively good cooling. But, I do not really want to have an external mounted radiator, and currently I do not want to perform the 120x2 Rad Conversion (Taking out the lower HDD Bay). So for the time being, the only option for me, until I do decide to do the modification, is to have a single 120x3 at the top of my case. And to cool this I realize, that I will need more fan, to get good performance. I am just afraid that, a 120x3 with a lower FPI using quieter (and thus less CFM) will not provide adequate cooling, for a CPU/GPU.

You can fit 120.5 Inside without mods. 120.3 and 2x 120.1



The 120.3 you can't see in this pic is at the top. 120.1 one in back and 120.1 in bottom.

 

[Skalm]

Really, thats cool. That might be an option for myself then. Would I then want the 120.3 on a loop and the two 120.1 on a loop? Or have them all in the same loop? Also, the bottom mount fan where you have the 120.1, that is a 140mm Fan Mount isn't it? How would you mount a 120.1 to that location?

 

[thobel]

Really, thats cool. That might be an option for myself then. Would I then want the 120.3 on a loop and the two 120.1 on a loop? Or have them all in the same loop? Also, the bottom mount fan where you have the 120.1, that is a 140mm Fan Mount isn't it? How would you mount a 120.1 to that location?

Yes its 140. I would do 1 loop I had 2 loops at one point and no real difference in temps that i can tell.

 

[Skalm]

Aah alright. Also, is there any way to mount a 120.3 and a 120.2 internally, without removing the bottom HDD Tray? Or, would it require removing it no matter what? If I wanted to put a 120.2 down there?

 

[thobel]

Aah alright. Also, is there any way to mount a 120.3 and a 120.2 internally, without removing the bottom HDD Tray? Or, would it require removing it no matter what? If I wanted to put a 120.2 down there?

I'm pretty sure to do a 120.2 in the bottom would require mods.

 

[Skalm]

Hmmmm it is so tempting to do the mod, but I do not know, if I will want to use the lower HDD bay in the future. And as far as sound goes, I am used to my GPU always screaming at 80% Fan Speed and such. The noise level doesnt annoy me, but it would be awesome if I could have an almost silent computer and still have very good performance. But I do know, that if I want to have a ~5 Delta, I am going to have to have noise.

 

[Skalm]

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!!!