Critique ~$2000 build

[istbar]

I've spent the last few weeks reading heaps of reviews, product specs, wiki entries, forum threads and all manner of interweb bric-a-brac to take my knowledge of computer hardware from negligible to novice.
Thought I'd take a shot at building a system to be used for:

- multitasking
- statistics (SPSS)
- 2D AutoCAD
- media library
- gaming

Finally letting go of my WinXP comfort blanket and moving up to Win7. Existing software isn't an issue as most of it will be new.
Not an OC'er yet, but I'm hoping to get pieces that will be able to; I think I've got some pretty easy-to-OC selections.
Not much of a gamer, but there are a couple new and upcoming Blizzard titles that I must be able to play!
I've researched the hell out of fans and case cooling the last few days and I know I will want to spend a few bucks on some decent air cooling, but in the interest of not breaking the bank I'm going to try to get away with stock for now. Exception: components selected require additional cooling - please leave your thoughts!
I'm not in this for a pretty PC; LED lights are more con than pro. I will try to make this a very clean build, so any tips you have for wire management would be appreciated.
Whenever possible I'd prefer a more efficient selection; lower power req'ts without sacrificing quality.


I've taken a crack at putting together an AMD system for under $2k:

Case - don't want a full tower case, but want decent cooling ability. Looking for quality build and good engineering. Preferably with a couple fans included.
COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II Advanced Black Steel ATX Mid Tower

Motherboard - Something I can work with that is easy to use. USB 3.0 would be nice.
ASUS Crosshair IV Formula AM3 AMD 890FX ATX Motherboard

Processor - don't want to spend a fortune and I'd like to stick with AMD
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz

GPU - I'd like to keep the heat/power consumption down. Won't be playing many FPS or watching movies. Need at least 2 monitor connections.
XFX HD-585X-ZAFC Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit

PSU - Modular; clean & consistent; good warranty
CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-750HX 750W ATX12V

Memory - versatile and cool running. Will definitely get another 4gb in a bit.
G.SKILL Flare 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) CL7D

Boot Disk - speedy, consistent and reliable for Windows and most used Apps
OCZ Agility 2 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC SSD

Storage - speedy, consistent and reliable for media storage/playback and less used Apps. Additional storage will be added later on.
WD Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.5"

Optical - quiet, reliable, long lasting, problem free
ASUS Black 24X 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Burner

Monitor - HD, fast response, ~20", sturdy, energy efficient
ASUS VH222H-P Black 21.5" 5ms HDMI Widescreen Full HD 1080P LCD


Let me know what you guys think; I'll welcome any thoughts and opinions.

 

[Knufire]

HAF 922 for the case. You could switch out the fans if you don't want LED's.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197&cm_re=HAF_922-_-11-119-197-_-Product

You could also probably live with a Corsair 650TX for the PSU if you want to save some money, though it's not modular: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005&Tpk=650tx

And basically the same SSD for $5 cheaper: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227550

Plus, if you really want to overclock, the stock HSF isn't going to cut it. However, I'm not sure which coolers come with an AM3 kit, I'm an Intel guy.

 

[Neuromancer]

Have you thought about a different SSD? The Agility 2 looks good but suffers from reduced small file STRs, something important for operating systems. The Vertex2 looks identical in features but has 5 times better IOPS performance at the 4K level and also is $5 cheaper.

Other SF1200 controller drives include the new Mushy Callistos, and the Corsair Force series. (both with 50,000 IOPS aligned at 4K)

 

[istbar]

Thanks for the input guys.

The HAF 922 was my second choice for case. The 690 II has a few features that I really like, especially the HDD dock on top, the feet getting it off the ground and the fact that it doesn't look like a transformer. I must admit the included 200mm fans are badass, but the 690II has a bunch of points to add fans. I'll be upgrading the heatsink/fans, and adding fans & ram later on.

I was mulling over whether to go with the Agility 2 vs the Vertex 2. Sounds like the Vertex 2 is the better bet. I like the look of that Mushkin Callisto. Which company stands behind its product more?

Any thoughts what the best speed and timing for my RAM should be? I have this same post going on a few sites; there's a different debate on each! Someone suggested that the DDR3 2000 is overkill. Thoughts?
I'm looking at these ones:
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
G.SKILL ECO Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

 

[Prunecandy]

if your looking to oc the gpu later i would get this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121370
you can tweak the voltage.
also i say go with the ripjaws
ddr3 2000 is a overkill.. honestly i cant tell the difference between 1600 and 1333 haha

 

[psionic98]

id +1 the asus gfx.. i have a 5770 that came with overvolting tool etc and helps overclock it very well..

and i also agree that the 2000 ram will be a waste, unless you oc your chip your memory will probably not hit the 2000 mark anyways, i'd settle for 1600 which is more common and in most respects cheaper. Keep the timings lower if you can though (cas 6-7) as opposed to the cheaper sets taht are usually cas9

 

[Knufire]

That ECO series is 1.35v AND CL7? I find that hard to believe.
If those specs are right, you could overvolt that to 1.6ish and tightening timings/run at a higher speed.

But, the Ripjaws are a very popular set of RAM, and they work great.

And LOL to the transformer comment .

 

[Neuromancer]

With Thuban the IMC is improved and 2000 Mem is doable. Previous to that 1900 was about the max and I never got past 1866 7-7-7

The idea behind buying the faster ram and look and see where you can run it at 6-6-6 or 7-7-7 timings.

6-6-6 would be ideal for 1600 mem speed. IMHO.

I know alot of people that really like Mushkin brandname. Their CS is pretty amazing, although not from any personal experience.

the eco series might run 7-8-7 but it is also running a 2T command rate so would be a little slower than the same ram at 1T. (err 1N).


another thing to consider is the 1055T. It would be HTREF clocked not multi clocked like the 1090T. And OCing it up to 1090T speeds would actually make it faster due to the turbo feature. I think... HTREF (BUS) clocking is a little more challenging than just upping the multi like you would the 1090T.. but both chips should handle 4GHz pretty easily from a quick read around. Too me $100 price difference is not worth the unlocked multi. Either save the $100 or put it towards the best GPU you can get

EDIT: Just noticed you said you wont be doing FPS gaming. In that case save more money and go with a cheaper Vid card as well. 5830 for instance. Saves you $100 as well

Take the money saved and put it towards a good high res monitor I cant comment on the panels used in them, an LCD guy might be able to help you more... but there is no substitute for resolution IMHO. 2560x1600 would be ideal but I think they start at $600 used/recerted and not on newegg

 

[ChanceCoats123]

6-6-6 would be ideal for 1600 mem speed. IMHO.

I know alot of people that really like Mushkin brandname. Their CS is pretty amazing, although not from any personal experience.

Cas 6 @ 1600 = the best. That's what Elpida Hyper IC's run.

Mushkin does have great CS. I Rma'ed a set of ram with them and it was simple and painless. The mushkin Redlines use Hyper IC chips. They run 1600 @ 6-7-6-18 1T.

 

[attack]

I think you're practicaly throwing money away with 4GB of 190 dollar memory. You will NOT notice the faster RAM. In benchmarks yes there is a gain from lower CAS and higher freq's but your money would be better spent elsewhere.

Also, you could save cash and get a cheaper motherboard and save another 100 (do you really think you're gonna push a motherboard to the limit?...from what I've seen with those chips is it's the chips that are limited...especialy if you're only on air)

All the cash can go into a larger SSD or perhaps a larger monitor...either one will increase your experience more than some memory timings and flashy motherboard.

 

[Awptex]

I agree would be a waste of money on $190 ram chances are you wont even get it to at 2000Mhz

 

[istbar]

I knew I'd come to the right place. I've posted the same build on a couple other sites and the responses were limited to, 'this is what I use and it's what I like, and I don't know anything else so this is my recommendation'. You guys actually gave numbers and reasons. Looks like I'm going to be able to redirect a couple hundred bucks!

Thank you!

Any thoughts on nVidia vs. ATI in regards to AM3? I don't have any experience with ATI and have always been pleased with geforce (and EVGA) cards. Does it make a difference as far as the processor/MB goes?

I'm thinking of nixing the SSD in the short term and waiting for the price to come down (or capacity go up); I've read there's a significant change on the horizen re: manufacturing costs. Anybody have any advice on imaging my HDD later on when I get the SSD? Or should I just avoid all of that and get the SSD now?

Last thing for now: what's up with adding RAM? I believe at the least, the speeds and timings should be the same. How about brand? Or model for that matter? Can things be mixed up at all or should all DIMMs be homogenous?

 

[Awptex]

This is a wonderfull forum , As towards nvidia vs ati which video cards do you have in mind? And to adding ram you will want to add the same brand and speeds, miss matching ram is never a good idea

 

[Knufire]

Nvidia consumes more power and runs hotter, but some cards are better then others. ATI runs cooler and consumers less power, but it slightly underpowered. This is a huge generalization, and there are a few major exceptions.

If you're playing Blizzard games, you really don't need a 5850. Get a GTX460, or a Radeon HD 5770 if you need to save money. The GTX460 was a revisioned version of the chip that runs MUCH cooler with less power, and it's the best bang for your buck right now. For Blizzard games, it should last a while, and when things get slow, you can add another. It scales like crazy on SLI, like 1.85x the performance of a single card with 2.

I would get the Gigabyte 1GB GTX 460 - Saves $71
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125333&Tpk=gigabyte 1gb gtx460

With that, you could go with a Corsair 650X PSU - Saves $60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005&Tpk=650tx

Also, this DDR3-1600 at CL7 - Saves $78.50
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303

I would also go with the OCZ Vertex - Saves $10
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produc...m_re=ocz_vertex_2_60gb-_-20-227-550-_-Product

And finally a cheaper mobo, still asus though - Saves $85
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131631

That saves you a total of approx. $304.50. Now what would I use that for?

Get a 1TB WD Caviar Black - Adds $30

And that's $234.50 you could dump into a better monitor. Or just keep. AMD machines, especailly for Blizzard, don't need to be a $2k build. So, rock out with a 27" monitor: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009250CVF, or a higher quality smaller one.

 

[attack]

Definetly get the SSD...even if it's only a 60GB vertex 2. You can find 120GB drives with the sandforce controller for just under 300 with MIR's. SSD prices are going to continue to come down and capacity go up...but the benefit is still well worth the investment in the here and now. When every program you launch...firefox, word, excel, clicking on the start menu even, just pops right open with no lag is such a wonderful feeling! Not to mention huge drops in game load times and windows boot times.

RAM in general can be mixed and matched with different speeds and such but you're limited to the slowest pair obviously. There are some exceptions and some motherboards that won't work together but those are few and far between from my experience. 4GB is enough RAM right now as long as you don't photoshop or video edit stuff...then 8GB may be worth the extra 100 bucks.

 

[Neuromancer]

I knew I'd come to the right place. I've posted the same build on a couple other sites and the responses were limited to, 'this is what I use and it's what I like, and I don't know anything else so this is my recommendation'. You guys actually gave numbers and reasons. Looks like I'm going to be able to redirect a couple hundred bucks!

Thank you!

Any thoughts on nVidia vs. ATI in regards to AM3? I don't have any experience with ATI and have always been pleased with geforce (and EVGA) cards. Does it make a difference as far as the processor/MB goes?

I'm thinking of nixing the SSD in the short term and waiting for the price to come down (or capacity go up); I've read there's a significant change on the horizen re: manufacturing costs. Anybody have any advice on imaging my HDD later on when I get the SSD? Or should I just avoid all of that and get the SSD now?

Last thing for now: what's up with adding RAM? I believe at the least, the speeds and timings should be the same. How about brand? Or model for that matter? Can things be mixed up at all or should all DIMMs be homogenous?

nVidia GPUs run just fine on AMD the only issue comes up if you want to run dual GPU. You cant on an AMD chipset, and nVidia has not produced a decent AMD chipset in a while.

(Technically you can run it... via driver hack but IIRC you will be limited to outdated drivers then, just not worth it IMHO)

You can mix ram types definitely mix brands, but it will only perform as well as he weakest link. If you match ICs on the ram, you will have 0 problems and will not matter if one is 1600 6-8-6 like the redlines and another is 2000 8-8-8 like the hyperX... Adding more DIMMs will raise the stain on the CPUs IMC, and slightly on the mobo as well. Raising CPUNB voltage ad vdimm will iron out any issues though (just a small bump to each MAY be necessary)

As for waiting on the SSDs. I can understand that. The Vertex2 mentioned above is a kick *** SSD. And IMHO will be the most noticeable improvement to system performance. This is coming from a guy that does not like SSDs. I have purchased three so far, and always went back to my velociraptors in raid0. ($200 for 300GB of space? with blistering STR/Ws and a decent access time????) The vertex2 (or any SF1200 controlled SSD) will make you sit up and say WOW. I did.

I never uderstood why some many recommended SSDs before but I can only assume they were coming from crappy mechanical drives.

As for imaging... My imaging from 2 Vraps in raid0 to single SSD was not successful. Which is understandable I did no AHCI prep work though. Will be trying this again in a few days. and see if the reg hack work will let me do it.

 

[istbar]

Thanks for your help OC forum! I've placed my order with newegg...and now I wait. Sorry, couldn't pass up the opportunity to use such a complicated emoticon...

I'm going to maintain this post during my build; hi-jack my own thread if you will. I'll try to post some pix of my build in progress...and I'll definitely be picking everyone's brains when I inevitably stumble on this, my first build.

Now that I've got all my component research out of the way, I will be directing my efforts at learning the BIOS setup, thinking about cable routing, worrying about stock cooling, and a host of other things. I will gladly welcome any insight, discussion, links or warnings on those subjects or any other you feel is worth mentioning. I feel a sticky coming on! Hmm...that doesn't read as good as it sounded in my head...

 

[Prunecandy]

Thanks for your help OC forum! I've placed my order with newegg...and now I wait. Sorry, couldn't pass up the opportunity to use such a complicated emoticon...

I'm going to maintain this post during my build; hi-jack my own thread if you will. I'll try to post some pix of my build in progress...and I'll definitely be picking everyone's brains when I inevitably stumble on this, my first build.

Now that I've got all my component research out of the way, I will be directing my efforts at learning the BIOS setup, thinking about cable routing, worrying about stock cooling, and a host of other things. I will gladly welcome any insight, discussion, links or warnings on those subjects or any other you feel is worth mentioning. I feel a sticky coming on! Hmm...that doesn't read as good as it sounded in my head...

bios is very easy just dont do what i did on my first build and take off the jumpers figure out you need them and find them on the floor while vacuuming
and if you feel a sticky coming on i think you need to go to a different type of website

 

[istbar]

Skynet is online! Many thanks to you guys...but we're all doomed if this beast decides to take over

The build and Win7 install were a resounding success. System booted into BIOS on first try. I had one freeze while installing Windows, but everything was stupid fast (13 minutes from completion of BIOS to active and ready Windows - !!).

I tried to post some pix on here of my build, but the upload sizes are pretty small and my pix are pretty big, so I'll need to shrink them a bit...I'll get to that soon.

Now for my problem. Device manager detects my HDD (storage only) and it says there are no problems, but it's not formatted, so Windows explorer doesn't display it as a storage location. What's the best way to go about setting this up?

Now to update my signature

 

[attack]

you need to go into disk management and activate the disk/format it:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Create-and-format-a-hard-disk-partition