Custom PETG cooling pump issue. Secondary problem tubes melting.

[koops266]

Hi, this is my first post on forums of my problem. Its about time i get some advice.

I made my first custom rig less than a year ago. After attempting to fit my own cooling loop, i had a computer shop do it for me with a costly labour price.
In total the complete part list cost me approximately 9500$ - hence my frustration i have problem after problem.

In short, i have two pumps running two loops, each with its own reserviour and radiator.
One cooling the SLI 1070 graphics cards, and one cooling the CPU.

The first problem is:
The loop cooling the CPU should run at >4000rpm. If the PC is left for more than a few hours (overnight) the pump idles at around 580rpm - UNTIL i tap it with something solid. This then dislodges bubbles (that I've come to the conclusion) and the pump kicks in to >4000rpm for the rest of the duration until turned off. this is becoming incredibly annoying as i cannot put the case glass on, and have to constantly worry if the pump is pumping or not. I've come to three conclusions -
One, the pump is somehow accumulating bubbles every time and i don't know how to filter that air out.
Two, the pump is faulty - but doesn't make total sense since it works after a slight few taps.
Three, the long ascending tube coming from the OUTput is too high/gravity for the pump to kick into gear upon startup (see photo)

This is current and primary problem at the moment.

Secondary to this is i have had multiple (3-4) leaks from the EK fittings both from the graphics card loops and CPU loops (primarily CPU). each time i have had to replace the tubing connecting to those fittings. The common problem i noticed, is that the ends of the tubes where the compression fittings were attached were excessively warped/melted and tapered in from the compression force. This raises concern as i cannot reach the fittings at the back without disassembling the lot, plus i am over constantly fixing this rig over and over with the same issues. any ideas why this could be - is it normal, and what i should do?

I am seriously considering in the next leak or two, taking all the ek hardware off and replacing with AIO pumps for CPU and the original fans/cases of the graphics card - thus losing $2500, and it looking moderately crap by doing so - so it is a least preferred option.
so please help team.

Standard specs:
2x MSI 1070 gaming x SLI
64gb RAM corsair Dominator
5820k
MSI Godlike Mobo
2x DDC 3.25 TP pumps
Ek fittings
PETG harline tubing with custom bends
2x Bitspower reserviours 200mm

Attached 3 photos. the red LED one i used a different bend when i couldn't be bother bending a new piece to replace. in the photos, the pump on the RIGHT is the one that is failing. The other (LEFT) has been flawless.

 

[Mr.Scott]

If you paid a shop to put it together for you, take it back. Make them fix it.

 

[koops266]

If you paid a shop to put it together for you, take it back. Make them fix it.

I cannot. before they began the labour, they emphasized that nothing will be covered under warranty since they do not stock the parts, nor can vouch for their authenticity/quality - which is reasonable from a business perspective if someone brought me parts i didnt know were second hand etc...... The parts were imported directly from the EK website - which is why it cost so much importing.

One time the pump did not work after two weeks of getting it back. i took it back and paid a further 190$ or something labour to sus out the pump and fix it.

 

[bigtallanddopey]

What kind of temps are you getting? I have only heard of PETG “melting” when left to go 90+ on the water temps. Usually when fans have failed etc.

The height of the tube is quite small going from the pump to the cpu and shouldn’t be causing a problem. Pumps can usually push water up several meters of tube before they struggle.

As for air getting in the pump. If it is happening you will see a load of bubbles going into the reservoir when you knock it to get it going. If you don’t see bubbles then it may not be air. If air is in the pump that is very bad and can destroy pumps very quickly and you need to avoid it at all costs.

It sounds like the shop you had it done at were not the most experienced place. Maybe they didn’t flush the radiators properly and you have bits clogging all of the water blocks causing flow issues?

Other than that I am running out of ideas. But if you can post what temps you are seeing that would be great. When idle, and under load after 30 mins or something like that.

 

[trents]

Cut your losses and go with the idea you had of using separate AIO coolers. To me the lesson in all this is that if you don't feel competent in putting together a custom loop of this complexity and expense yourself you should have someone do it who specializes in this type of work and who will guarantee the labor, provide the components and also guarantee them. This is not the kind of project the average PC shop is competent to do.

 

[koops266]

What kind of temps are you getting? I have only heard of PETG “melting” when left to go 90+ on the water temps. Usually when fans have failed etc.

The height of the tube is quite small going from the pump to the cpu and shouldn’t be causing a problem. Pumps can usually push water up several meters of tube before they struggle.

As for air getting in the pump. If it is happening you will see a load of bubbles going into the reservoir when you knock it to get it going. If you don’t see bubbles then it may not be air. If air is in the pump that is very bad and can destroy pumps very quickly and you need to avoid it at all costs.

It sounds like the shop you had it done at were not the most experienced place. Maybe they didn’t flush the radiators properly and you have bits clogging all of the water blocks causing flow issues?

Other than that I am running out of ideas. But if you can post what temps you are seeing that would be great. When idle, and under load after 30 mins or something like that.

Hi mate, thanks for the reply.
So there are definitely bubble flowing through the tubing, then into the reservoir which then eventually dissipate after 20-30 seconds - when i knock it. It appears though that these bubbles must lodge somewhere else and not go anywhere, because it keeps happening - same amount. I have even loosened the top screw to allow this additional air to escape. I know the bubbles can damage the pump, and have tried shaking and tilting the case both on and off to dislodge any other bubbles. I believe this is the major contributor to my problem. If the bubbles aren't, the i straight up have a faulty pump because what pump needs to be hit to work........... - if bubbles aren't stopping it rotating.

as for temps.
when the pump isn't working properly before i hit it it reaches CPU temp of 90-99 *C. everything on the screen lags hectically, i am forced to turn it off.
When pump is knocked - instantly it goes to 34-38 *C.
Running all day (as i am coding and graphic design -Photoshop) runs at 41-44 *C
Under load if i was to play a game like PUBG, Seige, WoW etc... from memory runs around 45-54 *C... i think max has hit 60*C
I haven't played games for a few months because lack of interest lately, with my new interest app programming.
- the point being. when running properly after a few taps (if needed.... didn't need a tap today). It runs perfectly almost. the melting PETG could have been because sometimes it had hit such high temps. I had to replace a piece of my graphics loop which was also warped similarly, which is why i raised the question because there is nil problems with that pump/loop. i think graphics temps get as high as 80*C under load???
Id have to test the load in the next day or two to give you more accurate temps. - but either way - it shouldn't be melting the tubes even being in the 80-90*C i would think anyway. I'm running non-overclocked SLI, as would a lot of other people. Hence i asked if it was a PETG problem - before i start looking at specific temps because i'm not convinced my graphics and CPU temps could do that. - and if it does - then i need to look at an alternative as i don't think i can change how hot the GPU are running.
Sorry for the lengthy replies. Probably repeated myself a few times there to try clarify things.

 

[koops266]

Cut your losses and go with the idea you had of using separate AIO coolers. To me the lesson in all this is that if you don't feel competent in putting together a custom loop of this complexity and expense yourself you should have someone do it who specializes in this type of work and who will guarantee the labor, provide the components and also guarantee them. This is not the kind of project the average PC shop is competent to do.

I'm almost completely on you side... ill give it one more fix if it needs be and do just that. it was my first ever build, took 12 months. i thought if i'm going to build a gangster computer - ill go all out. Lesson learnt, and i don't need this kind of power (minus the average CPU) anyway for what i do.
Question about this re-conversion though. i have all the original parts of the GPUs casings, fans etc. Is it as easy as stripping the water blocks and reattaching the original casing? or have i ****ed it now i've disassembled it? I cannot remember the process stripping the card since it was 2 years ago.

 

[trents]

A lot of video cards use thermal pads instead of thermal paste to make sure the heat sinks built into the fan cowling make good contact both with the CPU and the VRAM chips at the same time. If this is the case with your cards and if the pads are still intact you can probably spread a little thermal paste on them and it would suffice. Or you could get new pads of the same thickness.

Another option you have is to convert your PETG to flexible vinyl tubing. You would need new fittings but the big components would stay. Wouldn't look as cool but would cool just as good and I'm thinking that would take care of your leaks. Do you know exactly where the leaks are in your system?

Concerning the bubbles, usually you can dissipate the air in a hydro system by repeatedly tiltiing and rotating the case at different angles while the system is running.

 

[maxfly]

your eventually going to end up either burning up your cpu or your pump(if it isnt already damaged) or both if you keep running your machine like this. so please shut your rig off until you decide what your going to do next. if you choose to stick with watercooling we will walk you through it. if you decide to go back to air again we will walk you through it. once youve decided we will get you started.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Holy smokes.

1. For that kind of cash and inexperience, I would have went with a company like Origin PC and the likes to build a custom liquid cooled PC. They would take care of the RMAs, etc. If downtime would've be an issue because of the work you do, I would stick with AIOs and have a backup CPU air cooler (Hyper 212 EVO $30).

2. If your tubes are melting, it's because the liquid and most likely by the looks of everything being crammed in there, your internal air temps are high.

3. Pump could be faulty but it's not sitting under a reservoir or naturally being fed could be a bad sign.

4. If you still want to go down this custom cooling route which I would if I was all in for that much, I'd take everything apart and buy a bigger case. It will make your life easier, especially when adding a drain. If you're scared to bend hard tubing, get soft tubing (PrimoChill Advanced LRT) and compression or barbs + clamps if you want to keep costs down.

Your PC probably has been under performing on air and water flow and has shown signs. I would bite the bullet on some cost, post up the case for sale locally or w/e, get a roomier case we can suggest you for all the things you'd put in it now and do it right the first time yourself. Trust me when I tell you, it's not that hard. You'll just need approximately 24-48 hrs of downtime to pull this together, including time for leak testing while everything is powered off.

Again, if you stick with custom liquid cooling, I would strongly advice on just doing one whole loop. No need for dual loops and colored fluid. Stick with clear premix fluids and color tubing if you want color along with RGB LEDs. Grab a dual pump top and get those pumps working together in serial configuration. Use one or both reservoirs if you'd like for show but I'd suggest just using one and have the pumps in serial configuration placed right beneath the reservoir. You could see examples of that kind of configuration with simple google searches (images).

I know this is random but are you from Australia because I'm still boggled by the price you paid and for what you got.

Nonetheless, keep us up to speed.